Sexism

Discussion in 'Politics and Society' started by Geist, May 28, 2005.

  1. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    You always hear women saying how men discrinate agains them but you never hear the men complaining about how women discriminate against them. I was watching tv today and I saw an add from this company:

    http://www.diamond.co.uk/

    If women expect sexism to stop how can you turn to a company that discriminates against male customers?
     
  2. brucegdc

    brucegdc Moderator

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    I'd say they're discriminating based on claim costs, more than gender. Over here in the US, the insurance rates are significantly different at most companies based on age and gender - nothing new there. It's an estimate of what it will cost to pay out claims ... (of course, if you've had an at-fault accident *wham* your insurance rates go through the roof.)
     
  3. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    Its the same in the U.K but how can women complain about discimination when they join comapinies that disciminate themselves?
     
  4. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Admin

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    It's not general social discrimination, as much as targeted marketing. :)

    Marketing has to discriminate amongst consumer groups for targeting - seems this is just a particular example based on gender.
     
  5. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    I was using it as an example not to base the whole debate apone..
     
  6. Vajradhara

    Vajradhara One of Many

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    Namaste all,


    it is an interesting phenomena, this market drive sexism, it is....

    i've noted for the past several years a growing trend on American television, i wonder if beings in other parts of the world have noticed it as well.

    for a single catch phrase, i call this phenomena the "incompetent male".

    we some early instances of it with some television shows, like the Honeymooners and a bit later with shows like All in The Family. but, these were relatively few and far between.

    recently, however, there is no shortage of television programming or advertising which seeks portray men as bumbling idiots who couldn't buy their own underwear if they didn't have help. whilst there is a good natured aspect to this humor (ultimately, from which is derived, in my view) the negative stereo-type does nothing to promote gender harmony.... personally, i feel that it actually harms it.

    for some examples, i would direct the interested reader to some of the recent Verizon Cellular phone commercials. in this one scene, the father pathetically attempts to hug his daughters and wife after giving them cell phones, they laugh and walk away from him. he calls after them plaintively to "call" which they don't respond to and simply leave.

    of course... commercials are always searching for the "breakthrough" factor, so to a certain extent you can expect that they will be provocative.

    television shows, by contrast, (though money making schemes for the networks) are entertainment for the masses, as it were. it is here where young boys and girls will see how, in their minds, other beings behave and treat their gender and their opposite.

    watching television shows where the father slaps the mother on the bum are no different than watching television shows where the mother emasculates the father though verbal humiliation. the lesson that the young learn is not a lesson of understanding, compassion and respect, it is, by contrast a lesson of exploitation and degradation.

    which, i for one, am not pleased to see.

    just some rambling grist going through the mill...
     
  7. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    All well and good but how are you ment to stop it from happening?
     
  8. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    By not playing the part as portrayed on TV or in the books or the magazines. If for example society (or the media's portrayal of society) expects someone to be a loser, simply refuse to accomodate their expectations.

    Inspite of what we are seeing in the media, the world does love a winner. Especially if the winners "beat the odds", placed against them.

    The quickest way I know of to peak curiosity, and to force questioning of one's perception of another is to not do what they expect you to do. For better or worse, the formula works. The first results are almost immediate.(confusion and observation) Lasting results come with repetitive displays that counter the first impression/expectation. (either a change in thinking, or a confirmation of the original opinion).

    v/r

    Q
     
  9. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    I am as abnormal as they come and believe me it doesn't always work out good. Sometimes I wish I was the normal parsona of a teenager just so I can fit in.
     
  10. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    Quit watching TV shows that do this and buying junk with crappy commercials.

    Seriously. These shows and commercials are only there because they are generating revenue. The sure way to curb much of our social ills of this sort (and environmental degradation by corporations, human rights violations, etc.) is to become educated about our choices as consumers and investors and be willing to sacrifice what we feel like having for the greater good.

    And I agree, V. As much as women are still often portrayed as sexual objects, men are often portrayed as buffoons. Neither of which is at all helpful in giving positive role models for equal and supportive gender relations. I think one of the most damaging stereotypes is that fathers are not nurturing, intelligent gaurdians of their children. They are so often portrayed as unfeeling or incompetant, and this doesn't encourage boys to grow up into good fathers.

    And Geist, as another who has never fit in and eventually accepted I will never fit in, I feel your pain, as it were. I detested high school and wasn't very happy until I was in college and able to find others who were similarly odd. I still have no social group to which I belong, but I have picked up a few random understanding folks along the way that will listen to my ramblings and like my oddities, even if they don't understand them.
     
  11. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    I watch a little TV, less and less as time goes by. I just can't stand the sexism, and outright sex and violence and just plain stupidity I see on TV, both shows and ads. Talk about your lowest common denominator. Along with the female sex objects (anyone else noticed the strong dominatrix themes much of the time?) and the male/father buffoons, there're also the kids who are so much more wise and mature than their parents. Ah well, I suppose if it wasn't pushing someone's buttons it wouldn't be entertainment.

    I agree that the best thing to do is just turn it off, and stop buying.

    However, now that I have two young daughters growing up fast, I am bracing myself for the clothes and attitudes of the day. I was kind of a tomboy/grunge type myself, but I can easily see my older daughter (only 5) being attracted to the Brittany look. She actually has quite a sense of style and color, clearly a natural talent, and I don't want to force her into my pathetic uniform mode of dressing (still in jeans, Tevos and t-shirts), but I can't stand the thought of her going to school in bare midriff and nanoskirts. Not that I would ever agree to her buying such stuff or letting her out of the house in it, but I only too well remember my own rebellious years...I can only hope that she will learn to appreciate the power in modest dress and attitude before we get there.

    lunamoth
     
  12. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    I don't watch that much TV anymore all I watch is:
    Star Trek
    My Family
    and Anime
    Sometimes the News

    But really Fathers are not needed to bring up a child so whats the point of them even being there?

    I cause lots of arguments.

    Better than the depressing Gothic thing. However if you think they are growing up so fast they're going to be running circles around you when they hit teenage years XD.
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Star Trek is a good start.

    You know, your offhanded insults are really beginning to become annoying. I suggest you Grow Up Young Lady.

    This FATHER sends.

    Q
     
  14. brucegdc

    brucegdc Moderator

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    I'm not sure, Quahom, but I think (based on the start of this thread) that Geist is male... and having gone through a few rounds of custody here, one could certainly get the impression that many folks believe fathers aren't needed... an impression reinforced by some of the TV portrayals...

    ... Bruce
     
  15. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Male/female...rude is rude. We're tyring to be nice and this person seems to enjoy throwing it back in our faces.

    We are not TV portrayals. This isn't "slap hands", you lose.

    But you are right, this isn't worth my time, and I should not be getting upset.

    v/r

    Q
     
  16. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    I'm Female to be honest.

    And my comment was not meant to be rude it was just a point of view and I'm sorry if you don't like it but its mine and you not have to listen to it if you don't want to.

    In my eyes a father isn't always needed to make a family. I know lots of people whos Father legged it while they're mother's were preganant and they've turned out to be nice decent people. Which is the reason for my comment.

    I am also in the frame of mind to say that a mother isn't always needed to raise a child. Its nice to have two perants I'm not saying that but its not always necissary(SP?).
     
  17. Silverbackman

    Silverbackman Prince Of Truth

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    I am pretty annoyed by feminist of today mainly because they are arguing about nothing. Women in the West have all the same rights men do, and as the author of this thread said, women sometimes even have more rights than men (ie getting better deals in jewlry or better policies.

    And feminist have become so anti-male that women don't have the equal wrongs as well. Take the runaway bride for instance in Eastern USA. She had a panic attack, ran away from her house right before marriage and lied to the police and said that she was kidnapped. She wasted so many peoples time and money for her search and when she comes back, everybody feels sympothy for her and when she said something bad about her husband everyone hounded her husband at something very minor and payed less attention at the bride. As if anyone will feel bad for the groom, since he is nothing more than a cold-hearted man.

    Women can have all the rights they want, they need to also have the equal wrongs.
     
  18. Kaspar

    Kaspar Well-Known Member

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    Geist says that we dont need fathers, and that two parents are unnecessary.

    Well the way I see it our society (the relationships humans have built up father mother etc) are the way nature has worked out. Humans reproduce by sexual reproduction. That means you need a man and a female to make offspring.

    Now I think the best way to lead a good life that works is to LOOK at the Laws of nature and just get used to them. There are Males and Females across the world, and i think having children is a very big change that happends to your life. If we start excluding people from this stage of their lives they aren't goin to learn or experience what its like. If we say only females are allowed to look after children and Males can go and drink their booze and watch the match we are goin to end up with perhaps very tired females, and insensitive males who dont know how to look after children.

    I believe that History and the study of Society will tell us that, in deeply divided societies with unequal balance of freedom or things which make up our lives people do funny things. They dont act with full sense or understanding.

    ...another interesting trend is that children often tend to lead the lives their role models lead. In the case of alot of children if their parents are split up or if they live in a single sex household they will be unaccustomed to relating to those people.

    I think this is in the bible something of the sort, "the sins of the forfathers will be passed on to the children."

    People are afraid of change naturally even if it could bring something better.

    I think the issue of sexism is a big one that is linked to racism and discrimination. I think the solution is for people to be more concious of how they respect people around them whether they are of a different sex, race or age. However its sort of a cycle because if people are respected they respect back and if people see hate they tend to hate back. Another natural thing.

    Another influencing factor to sexism is your own stability. In my opinion when Geist said.

    Its obvious you need some more stability in your life. People who except you for who you are and like you. I know what it feels like to be a reject and im sure everyone in this form does aswell but thats part of life. Finding out who you are and picking yourself up.

    at the end of the day we are surrounded by disrespect, exploitation, stupidity, hatred etc and all we can do is understand it and move on. Move on and love, spread the word of respect and justice. It might sound cheesy but what vibe do you think nearly all religions are founded on?

    Its the
    vibe

    Respect Everyone
    thanks if u read my post.

    peace
     
  19. Geist

    Geist I am oblivion

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    Its not rights they are arguing about though its the way their male counterpart treat them. To be blunt I agree with them because its not exactly pleasant to be discriminated against because you can have children or your not as strong as men.

    You need a male and Female to make a child but not to raise it. Why do you think women are alot more intuned with their feelings? Its because they are compassionate so they can raise children.

    If men were meant to stick around after fertilization nature would have made men lactate aswell as women so that both can help in raising children.

    Let me ask a retorical question here if your a man. Are you in a relationship? Thats my first question and my secound one is:
    Do you find other women attractive?

    If so then this proves my hipothisis and that is:

    The whole puropse of life is to keep your genes going and to do this you body subconsiasly picks out female potential partners; which also means that humans were not meant to stay with one partner. whom have similar characteristics to your own so there is a stronger chance of your own genes survival.

    You really think so?
    But I have two perants should my life be stable?
    And you wouldn't believe that I did tell my mum that I wanted to go to a counciler because I thought my life was screwed up and she turned around and said oh its just a phase you'll get over it..
     
  20. brucegdc

    brucegdc Moderator

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    Geez, I'm regretting defending you earlier, Geist. Functionally, neither a mother nor a father is *needed* to raise a child. Even before today's technology of dried milk formula, there were wet nurses, cows, and goats...

    Beyond that, either gender can parent - you're coming across terribly anti-male - which is as bigoted and hateful as the other way around.

    And as for "in a relationship" and "looking at other potential partners" - look at the studies - as many women engage in extramarital affairs as guys - and it's probably always been this way - look at the wives of Henry VIII - yes, he had mistresses, but most of his wives also had paramours... and that's in a high-visibility "the woman must be pure" environment... likely the peasant family that didn't care as much about visibility was worse (and if you go back to documented Roman times, both genders were pretty much loose about their couplings...)

    To your last comment - if you feel the need for counselling, then PLEASE get it. I don't know about Wales, but in the US & Canada, there are options open for teen (especially) counselling at low cost/no cost. It can definitely help

    ... Bruce
     

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