would you vote for a jewish or muslim President of the U.S.?

Quahom1

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Not me Juan Buddy. ;)

I am into the political observation and analysis up to my ears! In my opinion (as an aside), a no-vote is the same as a vote. By not voting, one does not have the potential to cancel out another's vote, therefore one vote for someone/thing and a no-vote really equals two votes for someone/thing.

Case in point: the Sunnis of Iraq, in recent elections of that country...

I think it is every citizen's duty to get out and vote one's conscience, not just a right.

But then don't vote, and then don't argue with what you get, after (not a point at you Juan).

v/r

Q
 
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Bandit

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juantoo3 said:
Kindest Regards, Bandit!

I grant you this. You are correct, voting is a right, not an obligation.

I have long viewed it difficult to criticize the process if I am not a active participant. If you don't play, you really haven't got room to say. Remaining outside of the "system" only gives free-reign to the system. What good is your "no" vote outside of the system?
If you don't play, you really haven't got room to say
it is called freedom of speech:)
reguardless of voting & who is in office. you vote & your candidate loses, your vote is worthless. BUT, you still have freedom of speech & the constitution.

voting is an obligation when i make it an obligation, because a leader makes me feel obligated to vote for them. Then we have the votes for the lesser of two evils:rolleyes: .
i have not remotely trusted the 'system' or a President since Jimmy Carter.

i vote when i feel obligated to vote for politicians, not because someone else is trying to force me to vote (just because i SHOULD) as in VOTE OR DIE, or YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK, if you dont vote.
I vote for the candidates i like & feel confident in. i do not have to push all the buttons just because they are there.
if i dont like anyone for certain offices then i don't vote. That is my right & not the loss of freedom of speech or the loss of that right.

a lot of people later seriously regret ther vote. what good is that?
a lot of people just push buttons & dont even know who the candidates are, just because they are some far left or right winger. what good is that?

Because someone does or does not vote, does not put them in or out of the system. That is far from the truth. Someones vote for, can also put them & others outside of the system in more ways than one, because they believe a lie.

That is why we have City Hall, State & Town meetings etc...these are the votes that concern me & not some power control freaks who lie for some temporary global power, where your opinion does not matter just because you voted. :rolleyes:

Juan, you vote how you like to vote & I will vote the way I like to vote.
this is nothing more than opinions, about voting.

i am not real interested in a political discussion under Christianity. i see some serious problems with it being here (especially the heading). it is about the same thing as preachers pounding politics from the pulpit. IMO
I can speak on this issue, But my vote 'play' on it so far, is apearantly worthless.

i have said all i care to say about it & everyone else can leave me out of it from here as i will not be adding anything else to it. Thank You :)
 

InLove

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Hi y'all, Peace--

This thread is going everywhere--sorry if my answer is out of sequence.

I will pray about my vote, because I am glad to live in this country. My vote is personal, and I will do my best to use it for the good of the people here and in the whole world. If there comes a time (and there has, once) when I cannot sincerely vote for anyone, then I will pray for enlightenment and divine guidance. (And, by the way, if that means abstaining, then that is my right, also.) I live in a great, beautiful dream that some may see as an experiment--I can actually see that point of view. So what? Is it not beautiful either way?

I do not know how history will see it, I only see it now. I endeavor to understand its past and why would I do anything but hope for its future?

Personally? I love Jesus. Do I believe politicians who ride on His coattails? Only if I have evidence in the Spirit. And by the way--why does everyone keep insisting that this is "one nation under God" and then keep crying about "separation of Church and State?" I do not think it is about to be resolved soon, because I'll bet you it is an issue close to the hearts of all Americans. All Americans.

I live in a great place of freedom--a democracy (maybe a republic, but as soon as we get rid of the electoral college, that might not be true anymore:) . I just don't know.

Anyway, I could say a lot more--mmnfhugh for now.

Happy Independence,

InPeace,
InLove
 

InLove

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Hi, Everyone, and Peace--

By the way, there is no half-hour grace period to edit if you log out--once you log out, that is done most of the time (for anyone who still wonders, or might need that info).

Okay, so why did I log back in? ( I am getting old--trying to remember--brb:)--oh yes--)

Would I vote for a jewish or muslim President of my country? I might. It is my right under the constitution. I might vote for anyone. I can. I might vote for no one. I just wish there was a place on the ballot for that: "I vote for none of them, because none of them represent the principles upon which this country was founded" Say what you like, but this is my right.

InPeace,
InLove
 

BlaznFattyz

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[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Published on Sunday, January 2, 2005 by the Denver Post [/font]​
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Who Owns America's Moral Values? [/font]​
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]by Jennifer Wheary[/font]​
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]As we come to the end of what will surely be known as a banner year for "moral values," it seems only appropriate to reflect on the place of religion in American politics and daily practice. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Much post-election punditry equated Christian beliefs with moral values and suggested that Christians were the most unified and potent force in politics in 2004. This oversimplifies America's relationship with religion. It gives a false impression that a monolithic interpretation of Christianity exists among us and that religious devoutness equals red, and red (never blue) equals morally right.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Oversimplification of American religious belief and practice is a brilliant political strategy. It polarizes our society and mobilizes extreme positions at either end of the political spectrum. While two opposing, irreconcilable viewpoints duke it out, real issues go unaddressed.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] How did we get here in 2004?[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Step 1: Imply that America's moral values rest solely in a Christian tradition.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Step 2: Fuel the misperception that the best advocates for those values are the most fundamentally strict adherents to this tradition.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Step 3: Suggest that you are fundamentally more moral than the other guy.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] American religious practice is less conservatively Christian and much more diverse than campaign slogans and sound bites suggest. In reality, no one party has a monopoly on religious believers, and the moral values the majority of Americans support have a lot more to do with fairness, equality, responsibility and dignity than the hot-button issues that dominated 2004.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Ten years ago, 90 percent of American adults subscribed to an organized religion. Today, only 81 percent do. Seventy-seven percent of the country is Christian, according to the most recent American Religious Identification Survey. But more than 48 million American adults are non-Christian. These include individuals who devoutly practice Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism and other religions, as well as those who are agnostic and atheist.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The number of Americans who identify with a religion other than Christianity grew by 32 percent in the last decade, while the number of Christians grew by only 5 percent. The number of Americans who do not subscribe to any religion more than doubled in that time period. In fact, this group is now more than 14 percent of the population. That is larger than the percentage of conservative evangelical Christians who supposedly turned the presidential tide in 2004.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] According to the Pew Forum on Religious and Public Life, nearly two-thirds of Americans believe that the government should be fighting poverty by taxing the wealthy, and close to 60 percent want to see strict environmental regulation as well as an active role by the government in helping the disadvantaged. Close to 60 percent of the country believes that gays and lesbians should have the same rights as other Americans, and 85 percent believes abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Americans are evenly split about whether organized religion should be involved in politics. Roughly the same percentage of Americans (39 percent) sees religion as important to political thinking as sees it as unimportant (37 percent). And while 39 percent is still a substantial number, it's down from 2000 and 1996, while the percentage of Americans who see religion as unimportant to political thinking is actually on the rise.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] While moral values did emerge as a top issue in this year's exit polls - cited by 22 percent of respondents - its prominence largely depended on how the question was asked. Moral values also only barely nosed out the economy (20 percent) and terrorism (19 percent) for the top spot. In reality, the issue of moral values was far less important in 2004 than it was in 2000 and 1996, when 35 percent and 45 percent of Americans named it a top priority.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Still, if moral values is the story of the year, let's at least get that story straight.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] American moral values do not belong to just one side, to one Western religion or Christian tradition, to so-called red states - or to blue ones, for that matter. American moral values are, by definition, ours - all of ours. These values include equality, social and economic justice, environmental responsibility and democracy. They are rooted in philosophical and ethical beliefs that run deep and over which no one group has a monopoly.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] One of the most dismaying aspects of this year's election was the attempt and relative success on the part of extreme partisans and conservatives to hijack the meaning of moral values and to recast guardianship of them as the special privilege of a few. More than a few of our officials owe their election or appointment to this hijacking.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] The year leaves us with no doubt that Americans believe strongly in the moral values of fairness, equality, justice and democracy. Our leaders should remember that support of these values is a responsibility, not a partisan political opportunity.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Jennifer Wheary is a senior fellow at Demos, a public policy organization in New York City.[/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]© Copyright 2005 Denver Post[/font]
 

juantoo3

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Kindest Regards, BF!
American moral values are, by definition, ours - all of ours. These values include equality, social and economic justice, environmental responsibility and democracy. They are rooted in philosophical and ethical beliefs that run deep and over which no one group has a monopoly.
Thank you for validating what I posted earlier. I just see this with a little bit more positive spin. ;)
 

juantoo3

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Kindest Regards, Bandit and InLove!

Regarding not voting, yes, that is a valid way of participating if it is done correctly. Like going to the poll and casting a blank ballot. Yes, that seems somewhat contradictory, but at least it is participation.

Freedom of speech, to criticize those in office, may be the right of citizens. But as with anything, do you listen to those who critique anything who are not involved? Do you ask a grocer how to repair a plumbing problem? The grocer has the free right of speech to voice his opinion, but unless he has any experience repairing plumbing I would take his advice with a grain of salt... Same applies to critiquing the government, if you do not put your two cents in to remedy what you see as wrong, you can voice your opinion, but it means little to those of us who do what we can to actually make things work. Make sense?
 

Awaiting_the_fifth

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Quahom1 said:
I would not vote, however, for a Athiest
Quahom1 said:
considering this is a land of the free, home of the brave, and free of bigots, your statement is disheartening
A mixed message there I feel. May I ask why you would not vote for an Atheist?

Also
Quahom1 said:
Why? Read the First amendment. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you've got more problems than me, because you're living in a country you don't understand.
Could you explain it anyway, for us funny foreigners?
 

Quahom1

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Awaiting_the_fifth said:
A mixed message there I feel. May I ask why you would not vote for an Atheist?
1. An atheist by definition, leans on his/her own understanding of the world. However, the great majority of the people of the United States (close to 89%), believe in a power greater than ourselves guiding us, our nation, our lives. We desire someone who we choose to lead our nation, to also have that basic belief.

It has also been taught to the major monotheistic believers, that only a fool says there is no God. Hence, though we may accept an atheist as a neighbor with rights to believe as he/she chooses, the thought of one leading us as our President, is unsettling at best. In fact it flies in the face of the founding principles of this country's documents of law, establishment and Constitution.

Also
Could you explain it anyway, for us funny foreigners?
2. You can find no better explanation for anyone (funny foreigner or not), than the three links on my post on the Law of the Land. They take you to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Articles, and the Bill of Rights. You find them here: http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3189

;)

v/r

Q
 

Dream

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I think that this turned out to be moot question for this particular US presidential election. Obama is reportedly not a Muslim; and people's reactions to the possibility of his being Muslim have been thoroughly measured.
 

Still thinking

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Well, seeing as how this thread was started in 2005, I don't think they meant Obama . . . it would be interesting to see what these people think now; if there opinions have changed.
 

Saltmeister

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I wouldn't mind a Jew or a Muslim being a leader of my country, as long as they don't bring their religion into the politics of running the country. Same with a Christian leader. You can't claim to speak for what I believe, so don't try when you're in power. I don't care even if we attend the same congregation. Religion and politics cannot mix and still be politically correct, or at least to be compatible with the way democratic countries and their political systems should be run.

Respect the separation of state and religion. Fail and you not only violate my country's political system, but also my religion!!! What you say is always your view, even if I hold the same views. It has nothing to do with whether we hold the same views. A political system is a political system. A religion is a religion. Engineers don't practise biology. Biologists don't practise engineering. Engineers don't manage the stock market, except as business-people (working in two disciplines). A man doesn't think like a woman. A child is not an adult.

I can vote for a Jew or Muslim if they can prove, to me, that their religion won't interfere with their running their country. ie. They would have made the same decision whether they were atheist, Buddhist, Christian, Jew or Muslim. .......or dare I say it......a terrorist, wife-beater or mass-murderer!!!! Just do your job. It's not the person or the religion. It's the decisions they make. Keep your personal life and prejudices out of the office. Politics is politics. It's not personal. You are working for the country, not yourself or even God.
 

shamsery

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I would not vote for a someone running to be president who was outright about being muslim or jewish. i personally do not trust someone who does not believe in jesus.


[FONT=&quot]Muslim believe Jesus (Pbuh) as mighty messenger of God, Prophet but they don’t consider him as God. [/FONT]
 

mee

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would you vote for a jewish or muslim President of the U.S.?


are you asking christians , ? if you are , christians should have already put their vote in for GODS KINGDOM and they would be waving their symbolic palm branch to welcome the reigning king of that kingdom ,so they dont need to be any part of the world they are busy waving their palm branches REVELATION 7;9-10 :) THATS WHAT CHRISTIANS ARE BUSY DOING



Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,
Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.PSALM 146;3
 

Still thinking

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would you vote for a jewish or muslim President of the U.S.?


are you asking christians , ? if you are , christians should have already put their vote in for GODS KINGDOM and they would be waving their symbolic palm branch to welcome the reigning king of that kingdom ,so they dont need to be any part of the world they are busy waving their palm branches REVELATION 7;9-10 :) THATS WHAT CHRISTIANS ARE BUSY DOING



Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,

Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.PSALM 146;3

:rolleyes: Thanks, Mee, but in America we get to vote for our leaders, which we take advantage of, if we're smart . . . . . .
 

Quahom1

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Not to mention that it's a narrow-minded view of someone; I don't trust many people who do believe in Jesus! :)
The problem with a Muslim President, would be that his/her religious beliefs (concerning law) are at odds with the Judeao/Christian foundations of the United States Constitution. This is not a slight towards Muslims by any stretch of the imagination, but rather a philisophical/theological fact.

He/She would struggle with their own concept of things vs. the Law of the land as it stands. We have observed the need to assert the Idea of Sharia law (locally) within the United States boundaries as it is, already. In addition, those who profess Islam, may well lobby for changes in the Constitution to reflect Sharia law as a viable alternative to United States Federal law as it stands. They would be obligated to do so, as it is a mandate of their religion. They would also demand that any time, a Muslim is in court, Sharia law must take precedence over established Federal and State laws and judicial systems. In short, we would have a split legal system, that would never see eye to eye, and the disadvantage would be to the non Muslim majority, who could only seek justice under Sharia law if a Muslim was involved.

Just a "sobering" thought.

v/r

Q
 

gp1628

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I would actually prefer that over many of the alternatives. Both historically, and my personal experiences, would make it preferable to a christian-based president IMHO
 

wil

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I don't believe all Muslims are in favor of Sharia law. Time for some validation from our Islamic brothers and sisters.

Whichever the case a Muslim President would be required to follow our laws, appease our masses, our courts and our congress, should he not, he'd find himself out on his kiester quickly. Q, balance of powers remember, it doesn't change all that easily despite the abuses of the executive order and executive branch by the last two administrations.

I just made mention, I believe we could elect either, had they the right information for the people their religion would be overlooked, not by all but by enough to get elected. Just as if Hillary or Obama don't win, it won't be because she is a woman or he is black, but but because the public didn't resonate with what the perceived they stood for. Hillary currently wonders what her problem is... it is because we know her too well. We've seen the niceties on stage face to face with Obama and then the fits the next day, we've seen the tears on command and her stick with Bill for political power.

But what I don't think we'd be willing to elect is someone who openly says he/she is an atheist. While the country is moving more secular....we ain't there yet. We like having someone at the top that answers to a higher authority.
 
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