Did Jesus Have a family?

Mus Zibii

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Re: The family of Jesus:

"And the priest said to Joseph, Thou hast been chosen by lot to take into thy keeping the virgin of the Lord. But Joseph refused, saying: I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl."

- The Protoevangelium of James, verse 9
I was trying to remember where that line was from.

Another explanation I've heard is that on the cross, Jesus assigns the care of His mother to the Beloved Disciple or John. See John 19:26-27. So this would also seem to suggest Mary had no other children aside from Jesus.
Another good point. I'd forgotten about that... apparent contradiction between gospels.
 

Abogado del Diablo

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I said:
That source is Bloodline of the Grail, which is a rather sensationalist book to say the least. The only book I have ever seen that makes claim to having a complete and accurate event of everything that happened in the European Dark Ages. I wrote a review for Amazon, essentially saying it would have been interesting as a work of fiction, but as a work of fact it read as dishonest. Disppeared from the site a week or so after it went up.
Really? They took down your review?

I read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" last year and agree it was fun as a sort of "conspiracy fiction" - like a drawn out episode of "X-Files." But very little held up under scrutiny. I will say this for it - that it ultimately spawned "The Da Vinci Code" and reopened all kinds of dialogue about the source of the doctrines and ideas of the modern "christian" worldview - and most importantly - got people asking questions and looking for answers in places they might not have otherwise considered. To that extent, I'm all for it.
 

Quahom1

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Kalimiel said:
What about Mary of Magdala? She is supposed to have borne the scions of Jesus. If you look closely at da Vinci's last supper you will see her there as the Beloved Disciple.
I have considered this possibility for years, especially in light of the "rumors" and folklore, including that which surrounds the "Knights Templar" in France. But then it dawned on me.

K, remember the part in the Bible about people NOT marrying if they were "unevenly yoked" ?

How 'uneven" can you get? A PERFECT MAN married to an imperfect woman? Think about it...He is the SON of GOD, perfect, without blemish. She is the daughter of man, full of blemishes. WHAT A MISERABLE LIFE SHE WOULD HAVE TRYING TO LIVE UP TO THE STANDARDS OF HER SPOUSE, OR OF BEING HIS SPOUSE!!?? What a one sided growth relationship that would create.

He sinned not and saved the world. Her very birth gave her sin. Her nature consisted of the seven deadly sins.

Reminds me of a book called Superman and Lois, Man of Krypton, Woman of Kleenex...

There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus found COMFORT in the ministrations of Mary Magdeline...just not in the way others are attempting to portray.

There comes a point in life where SEX (and all that biologically falls within), is not omni-important to Humans. Something bigger and better is. I think Mary M figured that one out. She adored the guy!, but not in a way we can easily understand today.

Maybe, just maybe, Jesus went from un-approachable hunk (as a teen), to weird, to wow, what a man, just wish he'd look my way, to Oh my GOD, it is YOU! (God that is).

We can't think in today's standards, when addressing yesterday's events. I know I'm not explaining myself right this evening, so I'll stop here.


v/r

Q
 

Mus Zibii

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Why - if the gospel story was true - was Magdalene remembered? And if its an invention, why was she included?

I always loved how she seems to demand acknowledgement.
 

lunamoth

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OK, I admit it, I am a Jesus Christ Superstar fan. Remember Mary M's song from that musical, I Don't Know How to Love Him? It shows a Mary who is transformed, can't get a handle on Him, and while she knows that she loves Him also knows that it is not an ordinary kind of love.

I don't know how to love him, What to do, how to move him
I've been changed, yes really changed
in these past few days when I've seen myself
I seem like someone else.

I don't know how to take this, I don't see why he moves me
He's a man, he's just a man
And I've had so many men before, in very many ways.
He's just one more.

Should I bring him down, should I scream and shout,
Should I speak of love, let my feelings out
I never thought I'd come to this--what's it all about.

Don't you think it's rather funny, I should be in this position
I'm the one who's always been
So calm, so cool, no lover's fool
Running every show
He scares me so.

I never thought I'd come to this--what's it all about

Yet, if he said he loved me, I'd be lost, I'd be frightened
I couldn't cope, just couldn't cope
I'd turn my head, I'd back away
I wouldn't want to know.

He scares me so, I want him so,
I love him so.
 

Quahom1

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Mus Zibii said:
Why - if the gospel story was true - was Magdalene remembered? And if its an invention, why was she included?

I always loved how she seems to demand acknowledgement.
Ha, why did God say in the beginning "it is not good for man to be alone, therefore we shall make a help meet"... (help mate/counter part) ?

Damn the feminists messed up. God gave them everything at the very beginning as far as power and influence.

This is a broken record, but I'll repeat it again. Woman is life, and man is the servant of life...and all that entails.

Women are powerful in God's world, Spiritually, politically, and influentually...but it seems that they don't realize it.

I'll tell you what (Ladies), you surprise your men tonight by doing this. When he comes home, tired, irritated, worried about bills, kids, what have you...and he sits down in his chair or couch, you take his shoes off, and socks (get ready for the smell), and you wash his feet (not rub).

He will look at you with an incredulous eye, and ask you why. Then you simply say "These feet help meet the needs for maintaining this home, and I love them, and who they are attached to."

You want to break an honest man's bythats, do this. There is something in our psychie that stuns us when a woman (in love) washes our feet (we have to be in love with them as well, you understand, or have love for).

Like my dad says, the more his wife supplicates herself...the higher a pedestal He puts her on.

Damn, I got off the main subject.

Maybe Jesus had romantic feelings for Mary M (He was human). He was tempted so many times before on other things...why not this? It is not spoken of in the Bible, probably due to the fact that the theologians did not really want to show the Human "weakness" to us. (ignorant fools)

Paul was adamant about the virtues of remaining single...

Now here is a thought. Had Jesus sired children with a woman (obviously), would they have power beyond mortal humans? Nope. Understanding after being reared by a God and holy woman, but no powers.

Remember, Jesus gave up his God Head, when he became man. He gave up everything. He was born in a stable, because his parents could not find an Inn (hotel/motel). Everything was booked up for the season. Does that seem like a God in action?

So the kid meets a girl and in time they become best friends. She has dreams of the normal sort, but He comes to realize that His path is different. She is angry, then remorseful, then accepting, then discovers who He is! Oooooh boy!

One hell of an advocate for womens' rights under God (Steinman, move over).

Why is woman described in the book of Genesis as man's help meet (help mate)? And if this is so, why aren't women helping men meet their or God's objectives, in making this a better place to live?

Women are so angry today that men want nothing to do with them...obviously a death sentence for mankind.

Even if this was a matriarical society, the men and women would not get along, and there would be war between the two...hmmm sounds familiar.

Jesus did not come to Earth to have a family, He came to save our butts.

He knew eventually we would turn on each other, so He wanted to stop it; have us turn to Him.

But we are not as bright as we claim to be huh? We still fight between ourselves, and leave God out of it. What a dysfunctional family we be.

v/r

Q
 

Mus Zibii

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Jesus did not come to Earth to have a family, He came to save our butts.


True. I think that's why I like the Nikos Kazantzakis novel so much. Jesus is shown bearing the burden of a man's life unfulfilled. I find that a far more tragic temptation than the gospel exchange with Satan in the wilderness.



OK, I admit it, I am a Jesus Christ Superstar fan.


LOL Yeah, me too. My favorite song is the Herod tune:

So if you are the Christ
Yes the great Jesus Christ
Feed my household with this bread
You can do it on your head
Or has something gone wrong?
Jesus, why do you take so long?
Aw, c'mon King of the Jews
 

lunamoth

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Mus Zibii said:
LOL Yeah, me too. My favorite song is the Herod tune:

So if you are the Christ
Yes the great Jesus Christ
Feed my household with this bread
You can do it on your head
Or has something gone wrong?
Jesus, why do you take so long?
Aw, c'mon King of the Jews

Oh no. Now I've got that tune stuck in my head... :)
 

Jeannot

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Skeptic44 said:
James is described in the text as "the brother of Jesus." But the letter attributed to James makes no claim that it was a biological relationship.

Try looking at Mark 3:31.

"Then his brothers and his mother came, and standing outside...

Jesus answered them, "Who is my mother or my brothers?"

And he looked at those sitting in the circle around him and said, "These are my mother and my brothers. Whoever does the will of God is my brother and my sister and mother."

So, according to one interpretation, even total strangers could claim the title of "the brother of Jesus" or even his "sister" or his "mother" if they did "the will of God."

Very hard to be precise about this, but it isn't a plot to discredit anyone.

[ADMIN EDIT by I.Brian to remove unnecessary tone]
The point is, the passage distinguishes between biological relatives, such as a mother and brother, and those brought together in the Kingdom of God, who were spiritually brothers and sisters.

Bioligically speaking, Jesus was a pretty poor example of family values.
 

RubySera_Martin

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Jeannot said:
The point is, the passage distinguishes between biological relatives, such as a mother and brother, and those brought together in the Kingdom of God, who were spiritually brothers and sisters.

Bioligically speaking, Jesus was a pretty poor example of family values.

There are other ways to support family values than having biological kids. My mother had four sisters who did not have children but they sure loved children. They were very special aunts--far more special than the aunts that got married and had kids of their own. Many were the times when these sisters/aunts helped my mother with the babies and looked after us.

My sister works as a babysitter. She and the family have adopted each other. I don't think anyone could say that she fails to support family values--the amount of time she gives to those kids and the family. Sometimes she even attends to the kids on car trips so the mother can focus on driving. The reason for the trip? The father is away on business and this is a way for the family to get together for the weekend.

And then there are those couples who have no biological kids but they adopt homeless children or provide a foster home for them. And what about all those people who make shelters possible for abused women and children?

Maybe I'm missing the point but sometimes I get fed up with so much emphasis on family values-- as though not having kids somehow or other deterred other people from having families. Or in some way undermined the family life of others.
 

Quahom1

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Jeannot said:
The point is, the passage distinguishes between biological relatives, such as a mother and brother, and those brought together in the Kingdom of God, who were spiritually brothers and sisters.

Bioligically speaking, Jesus was a pretty poor example of family values.

Really? How do you figure? From what I see, Jesus was extremely good at covering for family.

I'd like to know how you come to the conclusion that you have, concerning Jesus and family?

v/r

Q
 

Muslimah

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Salaam/peace to u & all;

I’m not sure if this is accurate, but maybe someone who is Islamic could verify for me that, The Qur'an states that Joseph was a widower and that the other children where from a past marriage. Thus making them step brothers. I’d like to know if my thinking this is correct.

I m sure there is no such verse in Quran. May be , it's a hadith ( saying of Prophet Muhammed --pbuh).

Insha Allah, i will try to find some info.
There is a hadith that says , Jesus (p) will get married & have kids after his second coming.
 

Quahom1

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Salaam/peace to u & all;



I m sure there is no such verse in Quran. May be , it's a hadith ( saying of Prophet Muhammed --pbuh).

Insha Allah, i will try to find some info.
There is a hadith that says , Jesus (p) will get married & have kids after his second coming.


Why would He do something that has no meaning after His second coming?
 

Thomas

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There is is Sufi tradition (and I believe Moslem, but can't locate the source at the mo.) that Joseph was an older widower, and very devout man, who was chosen for his qualities to act as spouse of Mary and father of her child.

Of course Islam holds Mary in high regard, also.

The child was known before His birth, in the Lucan account wer have the Canticles of Mary and Zacharias; later we have the Canticle of Simeon at the presentation at the temple, and the prophecy of the seer Anna.

Not every male would have been married, and not every female would have had a family. It's a huge assumption and generalisation to insist that there must have been a family, because that's what the people did – are we saying that there is no record in antiquity of a Jewish mother having less than two children?

+++

The value of virginity and celibacy in the practice of spiritual discipline is universal, so even if Jesus was a deluded individual who believed he was the Messiah, no doubt he would have remained single and celibate to add evidence to the point.

If, as Christians believe, He is who He says He is – then there is no question.

If, as some say, He was an Essene, for example, then to hold high office celibacy would have been a requirement also – if fact the Essenes would view Christ's travels as something of a Rake's Progress.

Thomas
 

wil

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a figment of your imagination
Why would He do something that has no meaning after His second coming?
So after the second coming, we will no longer have relations with our spouses...not have spouses...not have children?

The value of virginity and celibacy in the practice of spiritual discipline is universal, so even if Jesus was a deluded individual who believed he was the Messiah, no doubt he would have remained single and celibate to add evidence to the point.

If, as some say, He was an Essene, for example, then to hold high office celibacy would have been a requirement also – if fact the Essenes would view Christ's travels as something of a Rake's Progress.
Thomas this seems out of character for you. Using two thoughts you don't believe to prove this point...I'm confused.
 

mee

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yes ,Jesus did have brothers and sisters from mary and Joseph the bible tells us.
After Jesus’ birth, Joseph and Mary had other children, Jesus’ half brothers and sisters.
That is evident from the question inhabitants of Nazareth later asked about Jesus: "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And his sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matthew 1:25; 13:55, 56; Mark 6:3) We can conclude from this that Jesus’ immediate family consisted of his parents, four brothers, and at least two sisters.
 

Quahom1

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So after the second coming, we will no longer have relations with our spouses...not have spouses...not have children?

Thomas this seems out of character for you. Using two thoughts you don't believe to prove this point...I'm confused.

Not the kind of relations you are referring to. And no, we won't have any more children.
 
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