Re: Native American Spirituality

InLove

InLove

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Hi, and Peace to All Here--

I decided to post this thread here because, to me, the spirituality of those who dwelt in the lands we now call the Americas is as viable today as it was before the the lands were named such.

I have always been deeply interested in Native American history and spirituality. I knew that my dad had some "Indian blood", but to his credit (I now believe-even though I did not understand back then), he never would take credit. He knew that there were others out there to whom it really belonged, because they had actually born the brunt of the blood burden.

I used to get really upset with him. But now I know why he did what he did. But all through my life until just a few years ago, I could not understand why no one would acknowledge the obvious--my dad's mother's appearance, her maiden name, the way she got to where she wound up, and just a whole bunch of stuff--and then when I looked at myself.

No one would acknowledge or deny. It was confusing to me for so long.

But then my mother's side of the family is Irish. There are other cultures in our ancestry, but boy, howdy--there is no denying the Irish. And I love that, too. That history is just as fascinating to me. And I learn more and more about it all the time.

Anyway, (and I hope this does not sound morbid) a few folks passed on, and in the top of one of their closets were some documents--some official and some not. But the pieces finally all fell into place for me. Plain as day--finally!

In case you are wondering, the other "half or so" of me is Cherokee. I did not go looking for this answer--it came to me in reality. I believe I have always known.

But then came the thoughts about how to talk to others about it. I looked around for a long time, and then I found the website listed below. It has become a favorite of mine, and I have made sure with the administration of that website that it would be cool to post it here.

I thought it might be very informative to anyone interested in these issues.

http://www.native-languages.org/religion.htm

InPeace,
InLove
 
i think i know what you are saying INLove. I have Cherokee Indian & Irish in me also. Some of my relatives are from West Virginia.
Ever here of the Potowanamis?
i could do a pow wow & indian dance around the fire in my back yard, and it will rain.

Congratulations on the finding.
:)
 
Hey, Bandit!

I thought no one out there had heard of the Potowanamis! My dear next door neighbor is...
BIGTIME!! (Her mother is some kind of leader and does lots of work with the magazines and literature--don't personally know much about it--

I will have to mention this to her--

:cool:

Tell me more!

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Hey, Bandit!

I thought no one out there had heard of the Potowanamis! My dear next door neighbor is...
BIGTIME!! (Her mother is some kind of leader and does lots of work with the magazines and literature--don't personally know much about it--

I will have to mention this to her--

:cool:

Tell me more!

InPeace,
InLove
Click to expand...

Awesome! i bet she knows who Princess Mishawaka is, & Elkhart, as well as Chief Tippecanoe:).

i need to find me a good book on the Indians & spirituality because i can feel that deep in my roots. Can't explain it all, but it is there.:cool:
i like to make smoke signals when making a fire.

wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa
 
InLove said:
Hey, Bandit!

I thought no one out there had heard of the Potowanamis! My dear next door neighbor is...
BIGTIME!! (Her mother is some kind of leader and does lots of work with the magazines and literature--don't personally know much about it--

I will have to mention this to her--

:cool:

Tell me more!

InPeace,
InLove
Click to expand...

I, too, have heard of the Potowanamis (from a couple of classes I've taken, a bingo/casino hall not that far from where I live [never gone there due to too little money/too much sense], plus the American Indian Student organization at school [they have a rather nice powwow on campus that is free and, if one pays five or ten dollars, provides a rather nice dinner made from different traditional recipes].)

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
 
Hi Phyllis and Bandit--

Bandit--the Potowanamis may be different (I will have to find out, as I don't know much specifically about them), but in most Native American tribes, there really is no such thing as a "princess". A woman may be the daughter of a chief, and that is what she is. I doubt that it is any different in the Potowanami culture, but when I have time, I will find out.

Phyllis--sounds like the Potowanami organization where you are is pretty authentic. LOL--about the bingo and gambling? Well, you have seen the bumper stickers, right? "Indian's Revenge"??

They are doing quite well, I might add--good trade for the "favor" of the "firewater":)

We may need a few more beads--

InPeace,
InLove
 
I grew up close to 4 reservations in Washington state and grew up friends with several NA children. I grew up going to pow wows and watching the fancy dancers in their beautiful outfits having a go around the fire (I had SUCH crushes on these guys).. I learned how to dance traditional along side the women and amazing how these people welcomed me... As long as I didnt do anything about these crushes I had..

I loved the music so much I could sit forever and listen to the drumming and singing. The culture is so rich and I am so glad that they didnt allow their spirits to be crushed forever. and the FOOD!! YUMM.. they always had bear venison and salmon cooked on firepits... and fry bread with jam! The arts and crafts I would collect my whole life.. Dream catchers.. Dolls.. Jewelry... Paintings.
 
Hey, Faithful--have you ever heard of the Sequim Rotarians? (Cool:cool:--I knew you were my neighbor here in DFW somewhere, but I did not know you grew up in Washington state.)

If I am not mistaken, it is the Sequim (Skwim) Rotarians who put on a salmon bake in the sand up there once a year. I might be wrong, but I don't think so...

They do it with cedar wood out on the Olympic Peninsula, and they use the Chinook salmon that is split open and actually sewn onto skewers in the sand?

Do you know about this?

Thanks for the post--I just remember when I was a very little girl, I shuffled around the fire with the Cherokee women and children--don't remember much else.

InPeace,
InLove
 
To understand Native American Spirituality one must understand symbols and metaphors .... and from my view of many of the posts there don't seem to be a lot of people ready to do this .... I spent several years with a group of native americans doing inner translation of prophecies .... many of the symbols you will be familiar with, but the question remains if there are any that are ready to delve into the depth of their meanings .... there are the thunder beings and all associations with lightening and lightening bolts, there are the kachina and their inner meanings, there are many prophecies that require an understanding of symbols such as "white buffalo calf woman", "night of the red sky", "new ghost dance prophecy", "seven fires of anishnabe", "hopi prophecies", "prophecies of crazy horse", "the eagle and the condor", "two serpents" ...etc ..... native traditions are rooted in myth and metaphor and are based on a different world view which is circular and not linear .... and there are many frauds out there ready to sell you some version of native american spirituality ....

native american spirituality is also not a religion, but a way of life and it can only be lived .... we give breath to our cultures and values by the way we live our lives .... it is the same for native hawaiians (kanaka maoli) as it is for native americans .... if one cannot see beneath the literal interpretation of the texts used in religions, it will not be possible to see beneath the veil in native american spirituality either .... take the stories of the Lakota oral tradition which are sacred literature .... they must, like other scriptures, be understood on four levels of consciousness.... all four levels are true and those four truths are one truth .... the medicine men say that how deeply each of us understand the stories tells us about the level we have attained in our own lives .... these same levels are found in biblical texts .... literal, allegorical, moral/philosophical and anagogical .... although I would describe the last level as sacred or profound .... truthfully I don't think this site is the place for an indepth discussion of native american spirituality (first and foremost there are not any representatives of these cultures present .... there are several that are similar such as hawaiian and maori, but even they are not the same as having native american spiritualist participate) .... I will share one small example about "white buffalo calf woman" ....

a cloud came down from the sky, and off of the cloud stepped the white buffalo calf .... as it rolled onto the earth, the calf stood up and became a beautiful young woman who was carrying a sacred bundle in her hand .... as she entered into the circle of nations, she sang a sacred song and took the sacred bundle to the people who were there to take car of her .... she spent four days among the people and taught them about the sacred bundle .... she taught them the seven sacred ceremonies .... she also left a sacred bundle which is known as White Buffalo Calf Pipe which to this day is kept in a sacred place and is protected by the keepers of the pipe .... it is said that she will return one day for the sacred bundle ....that pipe is called the sacred c'anupa .... in the details of the legend are such things as a tipi with 24 poles (a medicine lodge), a sacred altar, made of red earth, with a buffalo skull and a three-stick rack, and details of the pipe itself which must be held in the right hand and the bowl in the left and a special number of feathers .... she said "with this holy pipe you will walk like a living prayer, with your feet resting upon the earth and the pipestem reaching into the sky, your body forms a living bridge between the sacred beneath and the sacred above" .... the pipe is something that binds women and men together in a circle of love, it is alive, it is a red being showing you a red road and a red life ....

if anyone is ready to discuss the inner meaning of this legend, perhaps a dialogue can start .... if not, it would be interesting but of little value for its insight .... what is the meaning of the buffalo skull and why a three-stick rack, why would the pipe be held in the right hand and the bowl in the left, what is the meaning of a medicine lodge with 24 poles .... where did buffalo calf woman first appear .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
 
Hello, pohaikawahine,

Thank you for your post. I understand why you think this may not be the place to discuss Native American spirituality--it is the same reason I think it is exactly the right place to discuss it.

And I was hoping you would see this thread and post.

It is an issue that is, to many, very private. But there are many of us who would like to bust some myths--it is totally ridiculous what so many people out there think (I want to add "about us", and I probably have every right to do so, but I am extremely careful in this area--I want to say more, but I just can't at this point--don't know if I ever can). I will bet that you understand.

I would like to ask you--do you think that the Polynesian (sp?) viewpoint of all this may differ slightly? I can see how it might, given what "history" says. What do you think? You live in California, right?

Here is what I think (and I am no scholar, at least by this world's standards): I think that much has been hidden, either because of force, or because of some other reason. I do not think that the native families of the Hawaiian Islands had the same experience as the natives of the continent of "North America". I do not see how it can be exactly the same.

I respect that both have had to make compromises, to say the least.

InPeace,
InLove
 
aloha e inlove .... i'll try to answer as best i can and thank you for your questions .... yes i live in california now, but i was born in hawaii before it became a state (and in general hawaiians did not vote for statehood, but that is another subject) ....i left hawaii when i was about 10 years old and was then raised in the south pacific until i was well into my late teens .... so my roots in terms of my beliefs are very pacific oriented .... although actually i am hawaiian, japanese, irish, german, native american .... my parents came from different world and different backgrounds and married long before it became 'accepted' ...
our family is very large (i have currently 65 nephews and nieces and grandchildren as well and everyday new babies are born it seems) and we have every conceivable religious belief, culture and lifestyle in this family .... what we have in our link is a tremendous love and support for each other ....what holds us together is the training from our pacific roots .... i only share this information about myself because it is through this background that I see the links in ancient cultures, traditions and many religions ...

hawaiian beliefs are very similar to native americans and our experiences are similar .... when the missionaries arrived on the hawaiians islands everything went 'underground' because judgements were made that what was believed was 'pagan' and the 'natives' had to be taught the christian way .... the reason christianity was accepted by many of the ali'i (chiefs) was that they saw connections in the ancient beliefs and christianity, but they didn't realize that the christians did not .... so ultimately it became 'let them teach us, but we will simply not talk of our old ways except among ourselves' .... the history of what happened to the hawaiian islands is also similar .... our lands were taken without our consent and to this very day there is an issue as to whether or not we will create a nation-within-a-nation concept, but many hawaiians (kanaka maoli) do not agree with the U.S. imposed blood-quantum difinition .... so it is a struggle that is noticed little by the outside world, but of great significance to kanaka maoli ....

so there is also connected with this a great resurgence in those old beliefs .... but sadly the inner meanings have been deeply buried over time and the rituals and practices are carried out without inner knowledge and merged with christianity which is not understood either .... a lot of people going around selling something called 'huna', etc..... 'huna' only means secret and is not a religion .... to me it is no different than the selling of 'vision quests' under the name of native american religion or a 'sweat lodge experience' or even the many world wide tours that take people on spiritual journeys (at a great cost) to find themselves and to know the 'shaman' of other cultures ....

so who can speak to these things? we know from our experience today that not every muslim can speak for every other muslim, we know that not every jewish person can speak for every jewish person, not every christian can speak for every christian, not every buddist can speak for every buddish, every athiest, every agnostic, every whicca, ...etc. there are so many different thoughts, lines within lines, languages and interpretations .... so who is a native american (if you have a drop of blood does that make you one) .... who is jewish (if you have a drop of blood does that make you one) .... who is hawaiian (if you have a drop of blood does that make you one) ..... by now we all have probably every drop of blood from every culture .... but we have been raised and acculturated differently and we speak different languages and have different world views .... I call myself hawaiian because that is how i identify with the world .... I'll continue this because I have to go .... sorry ...
 
page 2 continued .... I'm going to try and make this short ....

you stated that it is important to burst the myths .... tell me what type of myths are you speaking of .... I do understand, but it is important to lay them out ....

the main reason I don't think we can proceed much with a thread on native american spirituality is that we have no one here that can speak from that world view and although I understand much and have participated in many native american discussions, i still consider myself to be native hawaiian .... not native american..... if however anyone wants to discuss symbols and possible connections that is universal and we would touch on native american spirituality because it is filled with symbols ....

the cross cultural and religious link may lay in the path of the 'mystic' .... the mystics are those that speak in symbols and are wise of heart .... they are not prophets or necessarily special ones, they have however returned to a state of 'wholeness and balance' (at least the authentic ones) ..... these are my views .... we have the christian mystics, the teachers of kaballah, the native american mystics, the shaman, the druids, the sufis, the kahuna, and many more with different names ..... it is however all the same path ....

he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
p.s. this gives me an idea to start a new thread on the 'super-nova' .... if you want to check it out after I post it, you will see a reference to some native american symbols as well as others ....
 
Mahalo, my friend, for the posts--

(Sorry, I know it looks like I have been here for days, but I just forgot to log out.)

You say that you do not think we can discuss Native American Spirituality here in CR because there are just not enough participants who really understand. But it starts with those who do. And I see that you do. Okay, so this is comparative "religion". And the way of believing that you and I are talking about is not necessarily "religion". But it is spiritual. And that is why I wanted to try.

I agree that mysticism is important to this discussion. Many people do not understand what "mysticism" is. Even though I had always been a mystic, I did not know it until someone told me what it meant. (Language, again.:) )

I would never assume to bring up something sacred where it should not be discussed. But it is time. Even those who would not post here have given me their blessings...

I am very overworked and tired tonight, and I do not know when I will have a chance to post again.

It is very important to be very cautious, but at the same time, truth is important. There are some who say that truth cannot be found, or does not exist. I disagree.

I am intrigued regarding what you write about the Polynesian experience. As you know, I am interested in busting myths--especially myths that the majority of the world's population still seems to consider historically factual--especially if it is being passed on to children in the form of "education".

So, it was not as friendly and easy as we were taught to believe?

Thank you so much for responding--and I will try to remember to log off when I am not here. I look forward to your responses.

And if I am not so eloquent, it is just because I have lots of new demands in my life at the moment--I will level out soon...I hope...

InPeace,
InLove
 
InLove said:
Hey, Faithful--have you ever heard of the Sequim Rotarians? (Cool:cool:--I knew you were my neighbor here in DFW somewhere, but I did not know you grew up in Washington state.)

If I am not mistaken, it is the Sequim (Skwim) Rotarians who put on a salmon bake in the sand up there once a year. I might be wrong, but I don't think so...

They do it with cedar wood out on the Olympic Peninsula, and they use the Chinook salmon that is split open and actually sewn onto skewers in the sand?

Do you know about this?

Thanks for the post--I just remember when I was a very little girl, I shuffled around the fire with the Cherokee women and children--don't remember much else.

InPeace,
InLove
Click to expand...

Hi InLove..I didnt know you were in the DFW area! small world it is.

I do not have personal experience with Sequim but the Squaxin do similiar things.. I was invited to a campout on an island that they own on the Puget Sound .. we had a salmon bake and even though I didnt spend a lot of time watching how they prepared it.. it was excellent! I believe WA state is one of the few states that have always embraced the cultures of those that lived there before us.. Sad to say there are still reservations but our cities still carry the names of the great chiefs.. I grew up in Tumwater which got its name from a Native American description Tumblewater. Not to mention places like Seattle and Nisqually. The required class children need to take is Washington State History which largely details the Native Americans.

The Olympic Peninsula is a beautiful area of Washington.. and largely untouched by the masses. If anyone ever goes there I suggest that they go visit Staircase.. which is a national park near Lake Cushman. Anyone that loves wolves and knows how its population was decimated to nothing in just a few decades can appreciate this.. I actually heard a chorus of a wolf pack while I was camping up there! So apparently not all of them were destroyed.. the smarter ones just happened to know where to go to avoid humans.

I had a uncle that owned a house in Hoodsport and that is where I developed my love for shellfish and salmon.. He had an oyster bed and unlimited clams if you could catch them..

I digress though.. this thread was about Native American spirituality.. If you ever want to experience something awesome.. Ask permission to sit in on one of their story tellings. They are one of the few people that still carry their legacy down through oral versions of their history. We've lost that ability.. Sure you can read a book but to hear an elder sit with young people and regale them with stories of their ancestors and legends is priceless.
 
hmmmm a lot of connections with Sequim .... my husband's family is from the State of Washington and for many years lived in Sequim .... my father also moved up there .... they have all passed now, but Sequim has many wonderful memories for me ..... and speaking of the name of towns there is one named Kalama which is actually named for a Hawaiian that went to the State of Washington in the 1800's and married into several tribes ....the decendants of that Hawaiian gathered about two weeks ago (I was invited but wasn't able to make it .... I am a descendant of the Kalama's, but our line is out of Hawaii) ....


I have sent a note to a friend who is a Native American spiritualist, a member of the Kachina Society to see if he would be interested in participating in such a discussion at this site .... don't know if he will, but I'll let you know .... he's a pretty busy man (also works for NASA) .... so hope I will hear back from him .... there are others, but I have much respect for the knowledge of this man in particular .....

Until then, perhaps someone can choose a place to start and let us see where the river takes us .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine
 
Perhaps the river has already begun to flow...who knew? I love this...

InPeace,
InLove
 
sorry to do another back to back post .... but I just posted this on another thread (exceptional depth of mind) in response to a statement by another poster about the mind being compared to two cones .joined at the center... anyway, this seems like a good post for discussion about native american spirituality .... here is my post:


"interesting that you use this description .... the native american "tipi" (and I should state not all tribes use the 'tipi') is suppose to the a part of an image of sacred above and sacred below .... the sacred above and sacred below are viewed as two vortices joined at their apexes (or two cones joined at the center)

the building of a 'tipi' is the recreation of the world .... it is done in a very specific pattern starting first with 3 poles .... it is the building of a star as the foundation of the world .... once the star is realized and things are centered, 7 more poles are added .... this is the stabilization, the ordering of space, time and movement .... then two more poles are added which are the 'ears' which control the flow of air in the tipi, air which is the vehicle of spirit .... the tipi and the world can now breathe spirit in and out and communicate with the higher powers .... it is through the process of prayer that the connection is made with the light from above then the two vortices are completed ....this comes from Lakota Star Knowledge ....

other tribes have different structures for homes and living, and they also have very specific symbols and rituals that recreate the world so that we remember who we are .....

I don't know what exceptional depth of mind really means .... but it seems that answers come best when you don't think about them .... too much thought sometimes muddies the waters .... and muddy water is not a good conduit for thought .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine"


__________________
 
i found some interesting Native American quotes here, for anyone interested.

http://www.ilhawaii.net/~stony/quotes.html


"Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children." Ancient Indian Proverb

Metea, a Potowatami chief of the Illinois nation​





"My Father: a long time has passed since first we came upon our lands; and our people have all sunk into their graves. They had sense. We are all young and foolish, and do not wish to do anything that they would not approve, were they living. We are fearful we shall offend their spirits if we sell our lands; and we are fearful we shall offend you if we do not sell them. This has caused us great perplexity of thought, because we have counselled among ourselves, and do not know how we can part with our lands. My Father, we have sold you a great tract of land already; but it is not enough! We sold it to you for the benefit of your children, to farm and to live upon. We have now but a little left. We shall want it all for ourselves. We know not how long we shall live, and we wish to leave some lands for our children to hunt upon. You are gradually taking away our hunting grounds. Your children are driving us before them. We are growing uneasy. What lands you have you may retain. But we shall sell no more




Lone Man (Isna-la-wica) Teton Sioux​





... I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man to depend simply upon himself.







​
 
Thanks Bandit--have not checked out the website yet, but the words you have posted seem good to me.

Have you visited the site I told you about?

If you have, what did you think?

As Always,
InPeace, and InLove
 
Hi, and Peace to All--

Dear pohaikawahine--I am so interested in the way you know about symbols. Do you know anything about the symbols of the Anastazi?

I have always found their symbols intriguing--I was invited once to go on a "field trip" of discovery in this area, but alas, I could not afford to do so.

I really am enjoying your input, and would like to hear more from you about the Polynesian American experience. (Sorry--I know that sounds really mundane) but I know that what you might have to say will mean something to me and maybe others. One of the first things my husband said to me when I introduced him to this website was something along the lines of "Are there any Polynesian views being represented here?" And then you came along....

I know that it is a bit difficult, and that is why you stick to the meaning of symbols. And I think that is a good compromise. Or perhaps just necessity:). It is difficult to speak in a comparative religion forum about something one does not consider to be religion. I understand.

Anyway--my posts have not been too "deep" lately, because my time is limited (LOL--maybe my posts were never too deep anyway).

Thanks for your input--love to hear more.

InPeace,
InLove
 
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