Re: Native American Spirituality

[Bandit]

Thanks Bandit--have not checked out the website yet, but the words you have posted seem good to me.

Have you visited the site I told you about?

If you have, what did you think?

As Always,
InPeace, and InLove

yes & i liked it. i thought it was wise since i know not to believe everything. i have not gone through all the links they have yet.
here is another from the site i put up. i like cartoons because they display the truth in a nice way.

 

[pohaikawahine]

Hi, and Peace to All--

One of the first things my husband said to me when I introduced him to this website was something along the lines of "Are there any Polynesian views being represented here?" And then you came along....

It is difficult to speak in a comparative religion forum about something one does not consider to be religion. I understand.


InPeace,
InLove

aloha e inlove .... actually I am not the only one on this list .... but I'll let the other one identify herself if she wishes to (I would be glad to, but I need her permission to do so first and I haven't asked).... I've dealt with symbols for many years and they usually come easily to me (not always) .... I struggled with them in the beginning and then on a small island in the south pacific once a voice told me "when you open your eyes and see with your soul" you will know the answers ..... and since then it has been easier .... I can speak of things hawaiian and even things polynesian but they are related to a "way of life" and not religion .... but the "way of life" is also the "tao" and it has spiritual implications .....

the political situation regarding kanaka maoli (hawaiians) is very complex and the path has split into many .... one is to establish a nation-within-a-nation, one is maintain the status quo, another is to deal only with the united nations and reclaim all lands, one is reinstitute the ali'i (kings and queens) .... for myself the bottom line is that we gave up our sovereignty long ago when we forgot who we really were (this was long before there were ali'i .... kings and queens .... who were imported and not of the original culture) .... we allowed others to take our power and use it to control us and subjugate us .... when we wake from the deep sleep we will realize that it has been within us all along and our aumakua (our ancestors) left us many clues .... when we open our eyes and see with our souls ..... no sense in casting blame on others, the responsibility is ours to find our way back to freedom by starting with the inner path ...

once I realized that this path was not ours alone, but belonged to all traditions and even religions, the symbols began to take on new shapes and the bridging began .... I have three names given to me by others .... I will tell you about them because they have become the essence of who I am .... one is "pohaikawahine" which literally means a "circle of women" but is much deeper and is related to a line of 12 women originally from the island of Molokai (I cannot tell you their names because it is kapu) ..... another is from a small island called Belau and the name is "didil" which means "to bridge" (didn't really appreciate it when I first received it, but it made more sense later in life), and another is from another small island called Yap and the name is "mitag" which means "my eyes" .... name giving is an important process in the south pacific, just as it is with native american cultures ..... even names become symbols ....

I call my grandson "mo'o" which means "dragon" and he is learning about dragon energy which is the spiralling energy within .... this is an important concept in the hawaiian language .... for example "mo'owini" is a vision, "mo'olio" is our pathway, "mo'oku'auhau" are our genealogy chants, and "mo'owahine" is a dragon goddess with many meanings within her name and her legend ..... this name is also carried in some families including mine .....I might add here that in the ancient hawaiian traditions a prophet was called "kaula" which means pure energy, a light carrier .... and the carriers of light are also found in the name Kalama (the lama torch, or the night torch) which is connected to the name of that Hawaiian and settled in Kalama, Washington ....


while all of this may sound like it has little to do with comparative religion, it really has everything to do with comparative religions because it is the inner spiralling energy that links everything (in my view) (that is the essence of dragon energy).... in some asian cultures it is said that "only the emperor rides the dragon to the top of the mountain", but this is not true .... everyone can ride the dragon to the top of the mountain, but we forgot how to ride ....

.many native american traditions follow the same path .... "traditional Lakota believed that ceremonies done by them on earth were also being performed simultaneously in the spirit world .... what is happening in the stellar world is also being done on earth in the same at the corresponding place at the same time .... sacred power can be drawn down and attunement to the will of Wakan Tanka can be achieved" .... to me this is the meaning of the meeting of heaven and earth .... which is the symbol of the cross .... the southern cross in the sky is often used as the same symbol .... as are birds (which are in the shape of a cross) as well as string-rays (also in the shape of a cross) .... I could go into lots of detail on these, but it is probably too much .....

I see links but many others do not and so my postings may not always seem relevant to the thread at hand .... hope I haven't gotten too far off base here .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

 

[truthseeker]

There is so much love in this thread.

My great-grandmother was Choctaw. I didn't know her (she passed a month before I was born) but my mother spent alot of time with her - though my mother doesn't know anything about her that satisfies any of the questions that I have.
Anyway, I think spirituality is passed down through lineage as well as picking it up in other ways. Aboriginal cultures have always been interesting to me because I feel that I am or have been that way of life. Spirituality is a way of life (my sermon to the choir). I am looking in on this thread and learning and becoming more and more inspired. Thanks for getting it started, In Love. And you are really interesting, Pohaikawahine.

 

[pohaikawahine]

aloha e truthseeker .... I'm very glad you have found something of interest in the postings of everyone here ....

the thunderbolt or lightening bolt is a common and powerful symbol of many native american tribes as well as other cultures .... to put it all in perspective it is important to know that the concept of the lightning bolt or lightening flash symbolizes the descent of divine consciousness into the plane of matter .... to have this experience is to have one's mundane consciousness overthrown .... it is a process of enlightnment or visions or revelations ....

"Initiates of the Thunderbird Clan are, like their brothers and sister of the Snake Clan, intimately associated with rain and possess special rainmaking abilitities. In order to generate bountiful preciptation, member of the Thunderbird Clan either invoke the spirit of the Thunderbird's extended body, the Thunderbeings (from Return of the Serpents of Wisdom) .... many members of the Thunderbird Clan also acquire the ability to channel the serpent power of the "Bird of Lightening" through their own bodies and use it for healing and spiritual transformation. This power is received directly from the Thunderbird and is very concentrated and deadly, this awesome energy can be transmitted into others to elicit a spontaneous healing or to awaken the inner "lightening serpent". (note: the inner lightning serpent would be equivalent to Kundalini energy)

for the Schi'tsu'umsh (the Coeur d'Alene Tribe) they have a story of red thunder .... a phenomena rarely seen in nature .... it is a red flash in the sky at night, evening, or early morning before it is fully light .... in the language of Schi'tsu'umsh the word "thunder" may apply to the accompaning and expected lightening .... the four thunders are known ancient and holy beings of nature possessing great powers and certain qualities and attributes, lightning being one of them. Therefore, this red flash is termed fopr the power or being actually behind it, the Red Thunder, dwel (red) stalonem (thunder) in their language. It is a sacred sign. (from the book Red Thunder by David Matheson)

In the Chinese tradition - the ancients believe that lightning was the written word of the gods and its vibrational resonation of thunder is the voice of their edicts.

In Hawaii, the voice of the thunder marks the beginning of the Makahiki season, this is the voice of the god Lono and a time of peace. There are rituals that take place including a trek to the top of the mountain. The top of the mountain is called "wao akua" (the forest of gods) because it is so wild that man can seldom penetrate it (that is the symbol) .... The Makahiki is a transition between two periods of time. The "hekili", lightening bolts, are the pathways of the "aumakua in the dark" (aumakua are our ancestors) .... these 'spears of light' .... shadows and rays of the sun determine time in the cosmos because they are filters of knowledge of the unknown .... in petroglyphs of cosmos designs, circular spiral whirlpools .... this is where the divination of the aumakua are given to the 'chosen ones' (remember we are all 'chosen ones') when we begin the process of letting go of the negative human energies) ....

Even little Harry Potter has a bolt of lightening in the middle of his forehead .... to me this is the symbol of the transformation of consciousness within and it take splace through aweakening of the inner "third eye".....

Interesting I saw a drawing of the Sephiroth and Paths of the Traditional Tree of Life of the Jewish tradition and the two outer paths were connected by a flash of lightening.

I was also reading an article in a publication called "Parabola" (Spring 2005 issue) and there is a short piece on epiphanies and the article is adapted from "Autobiography of a Yogi) (Paramahansa Yoganada) .... he spoke of trying to meditate and just wasn't getting anywhere because his mind was filled with disobedient thoughts .... he heard his master calling him, Sri Yukteswar, and he didn't respond .... finally after the third time he shouted "Sir, I am meditating" and his guru called out "I know how you are meditating with your mind distributed like leaves in a storm! Come here to me." When he saw him, the guru said "Poor boy, the mountains couldn't give what you wanted" "Your heart's desire shall be fulfilled." Sri Yukteswar seldom indulged in riddles and Yukteswar was surprised when the guru struck gently on his chest above the heart. His body became immovably rooted; his breath drawn out of his lungs as if by some huge magnet. His soul and mind instantly lost their physical bondage .... and he entered another world of the universe. He said that the experience can not take place through one's mere intellectual willingness or open-mindedness. Only adequate enlargement by yoga practice and devotional bhakti can prepare the mind to absorb the liberating shock of omnipresence. The title of the article is "The Liberating Shock" (so there is our lightening bolt only in another tradition) ....

I like drawing parallels in the symbols because sometimes it is easier to see something in another perspective and it does not imediately threaten our own belief system .... yet when we look deeply within, it is about us and who we are .... I hope some of this has been helpful .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

 

[InLove]

Dear pohaikawahine,

Mahalo from my heart--thank you for your post.

aloha e inlove .... actually I am not the only one on this list .... but I'll let the other one identify herself if she wishes to (I would be glad to, but I need her permission to do so first and I haven't asked)....

It would be an honor to hear from this one by name--but it is also an honor, perhaps even higher, to just hear from her.

I can speak of things hawaiian and even things polynesian....

So they are somewhat different? This is an area in which I truly am ignorant (I hate that word. To me, it implies that I purposely ignore something.) So perhaps not ignorant, but yet without the knowledge I seek in this particular area?

.... we allowed others to take our power and use it to control us and subjugate us .... when we wake from the deep sleep we will realize that it has been within us all along and our aumakua (our ancestors) left us many clues .... when we open our eyes and see with our souls ..... no sense in casting blame on others, the responsibility is ours to find our way back to freedom by starting with the inner path ...

once I realized that this path was not ours alone, but belonged to all traditions and even religions, the symbols began to take on new shapes and the bridging began ....

Yes--and I see that the Hawaiian experience may not be so different than that of the people on the mainland--but the relocation (Trail of Tears) is perhaps a bit different. I wonder if you think that there may have been something about the location or the government (perhaps even the cash crops) that was already set up before the Europeans came that made a little difference between the two histories? To me, it seems like the Hawaiians were treated with a bit more respect--(well, maybe "respect" is not the right word).

I call my grandson "mo'o" which means "dragon" and he is learning about dragon energy which is the spiralling energy within ....

I have been reading about your grandson on this and other threads here in CR. I have a couple of grandsons, and there is a song that they particularly like, and I just bet you and your grandson would like it too. I may not get it posted right away, but in the next day or so, if you have a minute, check out the "Favorite Song Lyrics" thread in the lounge. The first time you posted something about your grandson, I thought of this song. Like I say, it may take me a day or two--or who knows? I may get it posted tonight....

...while all of this may sound like it has little to do with comparative religion, it really has everything to do with comparative religions...

Yes, it does--and this is the reason I started this thread. Lemee see...does what I believe transcend religion? If so, what is it? Is Truth involved?

I would like to write more, but as I have said, I do have some demands on me these days which limit the time I would have (if I ruled the world).

Wakan Tanka, the Southern Cross--these are things that mean so much that I do not exactly know how to speak of them. Perhaps words are insufficient...

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InLove]

Hi Truthseeker--

You know, the Cherokee and the Choctaw cannot be too far removed from one another.

I will have to find out more about this, but to me, it makes good sense that whatever happened to one pretty much happened to the other.

I am always glad when I see you post--and particularly happy that you thought this thread was worthwhile.

I did not know it would take off like this....

I surely am glad that it has.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[InLove]

Hey, Bandit--

Thanks for the comic relief...

It is so good to know that you are still around...I have been thinking a lot about you lately. Been doing some reading, and considering some of your valid viewpoints on faith and religion. And Truth.

It is good that you are not gone.

And, by the way--do you think you can do something about the rain situation in Grand Prairie, Texas?

As Always,
In Peace and InLove

 

[Faithfulservant]

LOL yes rain.. btw getting a closer idea where you are InLove.. we live 3 miles from the race track.

Ive been trying to write this novel that has been in my head for the past 6 years.. lol

An aspect of it has been a NA legend that the story revolves around.. so I had to do a lot of research and in the process I learned a lot and had a lot of enjoyable reading at my disposal. Ive always been amazed at the symbolism in this culture..

 

[Bandit]

Hey, Bandit--

Thanks for the comic relief...

It is so good to know that you are still around...I have been thinking a lot about you lately. Been doing some reading, and considering some of your valid viewpoints on faith and religion. And Truth.

It is good that you are not gone.

And, by the way--do you think you can do something about the rain situation in Grand Prairie, Texas?

As Always,
In Peace and InLove

i enjoy & consider your valid viewpoints also InLove & thanks for starting this up. I guess there are more Indians around than we thought. huh?

i guess i danced a little too hard? that storm surely could not be from me. i danced for it to rain here, but i guess i missed again.
sorry about that.

 

[Bandit]

this question is for pohaikawahine

can you tell me, do the Hawaiian tribes refer to God as the GREAT SPIRIT, like some of the mainland tribes do?
thank you in advance.

 

[pohaikawahine]

this question is for pohaikawahine

can you tell me, do the Hawaiian tribes refer to God as the GREAT SPIRIT, like some of the mainland tribes do?
thank you in advance.

no and I will try to explain concepts that existed prior to the arrival of missionaries .... the eernal creator was known by different names .... sometimes he was called I'O , Teave, Te Tumu Nui, Te Atua Uru, Te Atau Ra, I'ao, Mauriora, Te Ra .... all of these names relate to one soul, one's genuine inner self, infinite world, infinite light, supreme light of the world, the eternal spirit of Ra (yes our name for the sun was "ra" and after the arrival of the missionaries, the "r" sound was changed to "l" and now we use "la") *.... Teave is the most used name .... there are four trinities which make of the cast of twelve major divinities .... and there is the spiritual seven, together with Teave, that make up the sacred eight .... a good book to read for anyone that is interested is "Children of the Rainbow by Leinani Melville" it was put out by The Theosophical Publishing House in 1969 ....there are others, but I like Melville's the best .... and of course, there are many other pieces that do not appear in any books to date .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahie

*if any of you have been to hawaiian islands you have probably heard of the mountain Haleakala .... "hale" means a house or could be a clan, "a" is of, "ka" is the, and "la" is the sun .... house of the sun .....

 

[pohaikawahine]

aloha e inlove .... when I mentioned hawaiian and polynesian, they are basically the same with some slight variations in legends and stories and even languages .... there are three major triangles in the Pacific ... the polynesian triangle, the micronesian triangle, and the melanesian triangle .... all are linked, but when I speak of polynesian I mean the polynesian triangle of which the hawaiian islands are a part .... I can also speak a little to micronesia because I spent many years there .... hope this helps to explain .... someone on another posting said that her husband is an Inuit Shaman, perhaps he might help a little with this thread on native american spirituality (I think she posted in the thread on cross religious relationships) .... seems like he would be a better resource on native american spirituality than I .... aloha nui, pohaikawahine

 

[Bandit]

I have heard of these before -I'O & Mauriora, but never any of the others. i am sure there is a LOT more to it all but thanks for giving the basics, pohaikawahine.

i pray the missionaries who came were nice to everyone.

 

[pohaikawahine]

I have heard of these before -I'O & Mauriora, but never any of the others. i am sure there is a LOT more to it all but thanks for giving the basics, pohaikawahine.

i pray the missionaries who came were nice to everyone.

thank you bandit for your graciousness .... i try in my life not to cast blame and debated about how to answer this one .... i'll give a small bit of history because some times i think we are numb to history as told by others about us .... although i'm sure there were missionaries that arrived with much thought about how they would save others with their religious beliefs many also played major roles in the loss of our lands .... just a few examples ....

one missionary family that played a major role in 'education' of the ali'i (kings and queens) was known to have beat some of the children they were caring for .... these very children were the decendants of the ali'i ....decendants of those missionaries found some of the diaries that spoke to this ....

missionaries were prominant among the group that formed the "provisional government" which played a role in the illegal overthrow of the kingdom .... it was based largely on the queen's (liliuokalani) testimony of what happened that the clinton administration signed the current "apology bill" ....

the missionaries established a new language for the "heathen they had come to save from the pit of darkness" and, perhaps without knowledge, systematically buried much of the ancient knowledge built into the language .. some of the new terminology was made in order to "administer medicine for the health of the barbarians" ...

some of the descendants of missionaries were involved in the opium trades while at the same time taking on roles with the hawaiian government as followers of the church ....

part of the reason I have spent so much time looking at the ancient ways is that intuitively I knew that spirituality was our path and yet there was so little written about it because so many had converted and would no longer talk of the past since it would sound 'pagan' (no offense intended toward the use of this word because it is both positive and negative in its connotations) .... but when asked where we came from, the people replied in hawaiian that "we came from the void" .... which was interpreted by the missionaries as "they came from hell" .... the word for the void would be "po" which can be translated as darkness or chaos ..... but certainly not "hell" ....

I have found that not many can love and appreciate the ancient path because they are still fearful of what it appears to be .... when I speak of the pig's head as a symbol (which was used in the collection of taxes at the time of the makahiki) I was told that I must believe in a pig cult or something .... so I have also learned to close doors to many discussions .... and that pig head symbol .... if you look at a mountain from a distance it appears as the head of a "boar" (especially volcanoes) .... the top of the mountain is part of the symbol .... and during the makahiki, the old rituals take place in a walk that is a spiral around and up the mountain and back down ....

sorry, this opened some old wounds that I don't always speak of .... within our family (which is very large) there are "missionaries" (those that follow the teaching of some churches that support the missonary concept) .... and of course I love them deeply and we share our differences in how we see the world of spirituality .... and this is what one would find now on the hawaiian islands, those that are members of many different churches and believe the old ways were wrong, and those that believe the missionaries came and helped destroy an ancient way of life that was in balance .... it is no different than the history of many other peoples and many are seeking to return to that place of balance and harmony if we are expected to survive another seven generations .... I suppose it like taking the symbols of "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek" literally, when even these are metaphors ....
when the road forks, which path will we take ..... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

 

[Bandit]

thank you bandit for your graciousness ........

sorry, this opened some old wounds that I don't always speak of .... within our family (which is very large) there are "missionaries" (those that follow the teaching of some churches that support the missonary concept) .... and of course I love them deeply and we share our differences in how we see the world of spirituality .... and this is what one would find now on the hawaiian islands, those that are members of many different churches and believe the old ways were wrong, and those that believe the missionaries came and helped destroy an ancient way of life that was in balance .... it is no different than the history of many other peoples and many are seeking to return to that place of balance and harmony if we are expected to survive another seven generations .... I suppose it like taking the symbols of "an eye for an eye" and "turn the other cheek" literally, when even these are metaphors ....
when the road forks, which path will we take ..... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

dont feel badly pohaikawahine. the same things happened to the indians on the mainland.
i do understand & wish i could change things & make them better. seems to me, God always has a way of letting us get back to the fork in the road if we got off on the wrong road.

 

[pohaikawahine]

dont feel badly pohaikawahine. the same things happened to the indians on the mainland.
i do understand & wish i could change things & make them better. seems to me, God always has a way of letting us get back to the fork in the road if we got off on the wrong road.

aloha e bandit .... you have started to change things already by your sensitive and gracious words .... I pray it is the process we are all involved in and why we even participate on this forum .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine

 

[Quahom1]

Hmm, my sons' Grandmother is Cherokee. Perhaps that explains why they don't burn in the sun...and have tremendous rhythm (didn't get that from me)


v/r

Q

 

[InLove]

Hello again, and peace to all here--

I started this thread right before I landed my recent "project". I am so used to being in charge, at least partially, of everything I do, that to work for someone else is quite disruptive. (Don't get me wrong, please--I did it for many years! Just did not think I would have to do it again!)

Thanks for all the great posts. I surely will return to this conversation in more depth when I can.

It means a great deal to me. Some of what has been said here may sound strange or even shallow to others. And I was truly worried about starting it. And there is so much in my heart and spirit that is difficult for me to discuss. There are good reasons for this.

But I am so glad to have people to at least start talking with. I appreciate you all.

Be back as soon as I can--

InPeace,
InLove