Alchemy

Discussion in 'Ancient History and Mythology' started by Rouge47, Aug 25, 2005.

  1. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I have researched alchemy for quite a while but I have never quite understood what the alchemists really did. And there is, of coarse, the question about the "Philosopher's Stone":confused: and its many mysteries:confused:. If anyone has any clue on the untold secrets of alchemy then :(please:( let me know.

    Thanks,
    Paul
     
  2. ProphetSmurf

    ProphetSmurf Imagination Figament

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    "The key to life and death is everywhere to be found, but if you do not find it in your own house, you will find it nowhere. Yet, it is before everyone's eyes; no one can live without it; everyone has used it. The poor usually possess more of it than the rich; children play with it in the streets. The meek and uneducated esteem it highly, but the privileged and learned often throw it away. When rejected, it lies dormant in the bowels of the earth. It is the only thing from which the Philosopher's Stone can be prepared, and without it, no noble metal can ever be created."

    "When the answer cannot be put into words, neither can the question be put into words.The riddle does not exist.If a question can be framed at all, it is also possible to answer it."
     
  3. Mythman

    Mythman be the best you can be

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    dear paul

    not like you, I havn't been messing with alchemy niether cemestry
    (please forgive me for my bad english- not a mother tounge), but I'll be happy to clear your head as best as I can try.

    who started the alchemy and how it reached it's populerty till the middle ages I do not know. but I can tell you this...
    in the early middle age as you know the money was in golden coins. many do not know but the reason that gold had been so populer is because first its attractive to the eye, and second is it's the best matriel that can be proserve after diamond (that is way when you see golden coins from sunken ship since the renesance its well preserve).
    this second reason led the alchemists to belive that gold is the top matiriel in nature. they decided to try and creat gold from other basics of nature. and this how begen the prosute for gold in the spiritual form. the belive that gold is longest metirial on earth led to belive its symbolizing etrnety. this mistycal belive and the will of the lords for money florished the populerty of alchemy.

    it was all nice and well untill the next thing happened....

    in the dark age there were rumers of alchemists that created life from a lab bottles. those statements shook the church. and the church as the strongest body in europe in that time began a counter strike. and they blame the alchemists as devil worshipers. and siners (and many more....).

    thou it became from a populer scince to a dark art.

    the philosephers stone: this is a stone (or a bottle or something completly diffrent) that made from ingridients that hold the secret to eternal life or creating a humen being, or something else. the exact enterpetation of the stone is unknown

    this case reminds me the case of tower of babylon in genesis.

    may the sun shine worm on your face
    the moon will show you'r way in dark
    and the stars protect you at night

    mythman
     
  4. Awaiting_the_fifth

    Awaiting_the_fifth Where is my mind?

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    It is my impression that Alchemy was simply a predecessor of modern chemistry.
     
  5. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I do know that alchemy was chemistry, yes. And that chemistry was branched off from alchemy, I think. The philosophers stone is the one thing that really grabs at my attention. Have there been any alchemists that have claimed to have at one time found the stone?

    God Bless,
    Paul
     
  6. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    I suppose we are all alchemists .... from all my readings and study of alchemy I only see it as a process to transform consciousness from the mundane to the spiritual level (it is an inner process) and the philosophers stone is a symbol of the opening of the third eye or the inner eye which is part of the inner process .... there is a gland in the brain called the pineal gland, which is also know as the third eye , it is very small and in the shape of a small stone or grain of rice .... I suspect most know the story of david and goliath (the giant) and david brings the giant down when he hits him in the middle of the forehead with a small stone from his sling shot .... sometimes a knock on the head is needed to start the process of alchemy or transformation .... so if we all have the capability of opening this inner eye (the philosophers stone) and transforming our consciousness to a highly spiritual level (alchemy) we must therefore all be alchemists .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     
  7. juantoo3

    juantoo3 ʎʇıɹoɥʇnɐ uoıʇsǝnb

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    Kindest Regards, Paul James!
    I have only a very cursory understanding of the subject, but it is one that intrigues me. Thank you for the thread.

    I have read of a very few who did find the philosopher's stone in Europe during the middle ages, but they were shadowy anonymus figures. I have no names to give you. I suspect anonymity was for protection. To possess something as powerful as the philosopher's stone would make one a target in many ways, not least political. If one were wise enough to tap into the secret of the philosopher's stone, granting unlimited wealth and immortality, it would make one highly sought by friends and enemies alike. The truly wise would reject such attention.

    My two cents. Good luck in your pursuit.
     
  8. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    True, I wouldn't want to be running around claiming that I found the stone and waving it in my hand:rolleyes:. But because they decidied to remain anonymous there really is no proof that it existed. Oh well:(. It is still interesting to study though:D.

    Paul
     
  9. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    So are alchemists like elementalists:confused: ? Can they bend fire, water, air, and earth? I always thought that they could, or so story has it:rolleyes:. If they can combine base metals into gold then they surly bend the elements right?
    God Bless,
    Paul
     
  10. Awaiting_the_fifth

    Awaiting_the_fifth Where is my mind?

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    How many people had heard of the Philosopher's stone before Harry Potter?

    And be honest!
     
  11. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I've heard of the philosophers stone from an adult cartoon called "Full Metal Alchemist." Thats when I took interest in this subject. Thats the truth:).

    God Bless,
    Paul
     
  12. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    In the quest for the holy grail, Arthurian legends, the grail is described variously as a cup, a dish, a stone, or a jewel ... .... the search for the grail is to search for the castle where it is kept .... and the question one must pose is "oes the Grail serve?" It is also spoken of as "a wondrous thing, hidden in the flower garden of the king where the elct of all nations are called" (Walfram Von Eschenback: Parzival) .... in the version of tales where it is referred to as a "stone" it will be housed in a temple using only the purest of materials, such as has the fire-stone abestus, which sends forth a fire that does not burn; and the water-stone elitropia, whose water is cool in the summer and warm in the winter. One of the grails ability is to shape-change .... there are five changes described in sequence from spear to cup to sword to stone to child ... these five shapes equate to the five elements of spirit and matter: the spear is fire, the cup is water, the sword air, and the stone earth, the fifth element is soul or spirit. he grail as a stone of the purest kind .... called lapsit exillas .... "there never was human so ill but that if he one day sees that stone, he cannot die within the week that follows" (Parzival) .... Lapsit exillas is the philosophers stone.... and it is, I believe, the final stage in alchemy ....


    "Thy stone Chymist, is nothing; the corner-stone that I mean/ is my gold tincture and the stone of all the philosophers." (Angelus Silesius, Cherubinischer Wandersmann, 1657)


    if alchemy is the process of transforming our own consciousness (from the mundane to gold .... or the light) then the philosopher's stone would be that place in the inner sanctum of the brain where all of this takes place .... the small pineal gland AKA the third eye, interesting it is also called the epiphysis (as in epiphany) ... interesting I saw this quote from someone else (Genesis 32:30, Jacob says "I have seen God face to face and I will call the place Peniel." ....face to face (panim'el panim) is the basis for the word Peniel ....

    The Zohar referes to the mystical face of man where each Sephiroth is reflected .... the upper most Sephira, Kether, is called "sainted old age" or "star of the universe" and on him depends the life of all things from the curve of his skull, dew flows incessantly down onto the lower heavens: the philosophers' mercury .... (I read this in a book of alchemy and mysticism) ....

    all very interesting and it makes more sense if you look at the symbols .... I still believe we are all alchemists and the philosophers stone exists within each of us .... getting there is quite another problem ..... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     
  13. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    Interesting information! I never thought about the third eye. I'm afraid I don't get the King Aurther information though. Was the Grail also called a stone? Where did you get this, I simply must know more!:)

    God Bless,
    Paul
     
  14. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    I don't know how to explain where all this comes from .... I can give you quotes from some books, but the connections to the symbols comes from within .... I simply see them when I see or read them .... King Arthur is only once parallel that contains information about the ancient path .... and yes, the Grail was also called a stone .... it manifested itself in five different shapes .... Arthur (in the tales) was able to see the mysterious ability of the Grail to change its shape - "this was in order that all who came into its presence might feel more deeply the true wonder that lay at its heart." (The Mystic Grail by JOhn Matthews)

    For example the concept of the five shapes being connected with the five shapes of spirit and matter (fire, water, air, earth and the soul) was immediately apparent to me because the hawaiian language is structured in this way .... every word has its "huna" or sacred meaning or sound and the basic sounds are connected to these shapes .... the vowel sound of "a" is connected to the sun or fire, "e" is connected to wind or air, "i" is connected to the water, "o" is connected to the earth, and "u" is connected to the human spirit and its ability to call together the 4 elements of earth .... spirit and matter .... each sound also has a different vibration frequency and that is another path of knowledge .... I just share this as a way to show how one world of knowledge connects with another when we look at the symbols .... so in hawaiian every word that is spoken has great power because of these sounds .... even the word "aloha" is not used without intent .... it's inner translation is the exchange of breath face to face ......

    alchemy is related to the transformation of energy from one form to another .... this is what we do when we transform or raise our consciousness .... that pineal gland is located in a small chamber within the brain .... one might even call it the "black box" .... I use this metaphor because of the reference to the works of many ancient texts such as the bible being housed in a "black box" .... that same chamber is called the wedding chamber, the location of the holy grail, the cave, the lodge, the third eye .... etc. It is protected by the "caudate nucleus" which can look like the wings of an angel or the horns of a ram (depending on what view you see it) .... and the whole inner brain is covered by a net-like structure called the "arachnoid" (spider's net) also called the veil, the shroud .... etc.... so one must enter the cave and pass behind the veil to "meet god face-to-face" .... this is called visions or revelations .... it requires walking up or ascending seven steps (jacob's ladder) because there are seven energy centers within the body .... when the third eye (or philosophers stone) is open .... one begins the process of merging the three into One .... don't know if this makes any sense to anyone else because it is not easy to put it into words .... I only know that the symbols tells us this, and this is how I know .... so in a sense we are the prophets we've been waiting for .... and the Hopi tell us that "this is the time in which we will meet ourselves" .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine
     
  15. ProphetSmurf

    ProphetSmurf Imagination Figament

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    First heard of the Philos`s Stone back in High school. A science/biology teacher I had always talked about legends n stuff. Subject came up concerning Alchemy and the 'riddle'. Being students and kids, getting a teacher off-track to avoid classwork was gravy. A talkative teacher was an easy target. :D . Discussions were the norm.
     
  16. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    What, may I ask, is the 'riddle'? Is it another mystery to the secrets of alchemy, or exageration?

    God Bless,
    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2005
  17. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant New Member

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    Paul,

    this was the riddle that Smurf posted.. You must have passed right by it :)
     
  18. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    so the question remains, what is it? is anyone going to try and solve the riddle .... this is like the question, what is the sound of one hand clapping (which is in another thread) .... me ke aloha pumehana, pohaikawahine
     
  19. Rouge47

    Rouge47 Follower of Christ

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    I wont try to solve it. Wow, im a video game guy not a riddler:D.
     
  20. ProphetSmurf

    ProphetSmurf Imagination Figament

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    There is an answer. Within each of us.
     

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