Benefit of belief
- Thread starter Plaidback
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Saponification
Happiness to all
Subscribing to a belief system or reading sutras and other forms of texts won't automatically make these changes occur, so far as I'm concerned. Religion - any religion - can only show you the way to that stuff. You have to do the work. It shouldn't be a crutch, it should be a guide. The religious teachings are not in themselves the answer, what's at the end of them is.
Do your research. Find a belief system that suits you: your lifestyle, your beliefs, your morals, your ethics and so on. Don't let yourself get bullied into anything and make sure to shop around when looking for a spiritual teacher.
Do your research. Find a belief system that suits you: your lifestyle, your beliefs, your morals, your ethics and so on. Don't let yourself get bullied into anything and make sure to shop around when looking for a spiritual teacher.
Plaidback
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I love that one !!!, was that you or somebody else ?Saponification said:
Let me tell you lil' sum about me, to clear things up.
I do not have Emotions except for Love ( which is not Emotion, it is state of mind ). Belief is most dangerous emotion, derived from Fear.
Truth is dimension that is going to wipe out all Religions, pretty soon
Can you tell me how do you benefit, by having a Belief.
Like, some people believe in life after physical death, do you see any benefit in
that belief ??
much respect !!
B
Bandit
Guest
Plaidback said:I love that one !!!, was that you or somebody else ?
Let me tell you lil' sum about me, to clear things up.
I do not have Emotions except for Love ( which is not Emotion, it is state of mind ). Belief is most dangerous emotion, derived from Fear.
Truth is dimension that is going to wipe out all Religions, pretty soon
Can you tell me how do you benefit, by having a Belief.
Like, some people believe in life after physical death, do you see any benefit in
that belief ??
much respect !!
eh.
has love & no emotions, but knows what fear is. hmmmm
all religion will be wiped out?
that sounds like a belief to me, for someone who has no belief.
where is your proof that belief comes only from fear & that love is not also an emotion?
those are some pretty strong beliefs you have.
is this called the no belief no emotion religion?
i am sure you have an explanation.
Plaidback
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Do I have to speak Chinese in order to know that Chinese People speak that language ??Bandit said:eh.
has love & no emotions, but knows what fear is. hmmmm
all religion will be wiped out?
that sounds like a belief to me, for someone who has no belief.
where is your proof that belief comes only from fear & that love is not also an emotion?
those are some pretty strong beliefs you have.
is this called the no belief no emotion religion?
i am sure you have an explanation.
true love is state of mind, not emotion, it is something one can only give.
True love can not be manipulated from outside, and can never be changed.
It is unconditional. Love-human emotion, is very delicate, and can transform into hate, in a heartbeat.
You se Bandit, there is a book called Torah in wich Entire Human History,
from start to an end was written, between 2500 and 3500 years ago.
So when I told you, religions are going to dissapear, It wasn't me who
said it, truth is not mine. You feel me ?
I know it sounds strange, and many people think, I am some kind of Drug addict, when I say, I don't have emotions. I don't have them, because I know
my future. If you know your future, how can you have fear, anger, hate,or
any other emotion.
Fear is most delicate emotion, because it covers so many aspects of human
activity. We fear everything we don't know, that is coming our way.
Again, Religion is Illusion, which is another dimension I don't have.
I started my own non-profit corporation, established on 05.05.05 here in
state of Ohio, and it is called " LoveScience of Destiny corp."
with purpose, or mission if you will, to gather all people on Planet, that
See what I see, and Feel what I feel.
If you take Christian belief, you will see that is based on illusion that people
serve God, in that huge fear of failure, they forgot that there is only one life,
not two.
Ressurection and Reincarnation are events that can happen' in comic book,
not real life.
B
Bandit
Guest
Plaidback said:
how do you feel what you feel if you have no emotion?
i am glad you absolutley know you future. when your closest friend passes on, you have no emotions.
if you win one million dollars, you have no happiness.
so your religion is called lovescience of destiny?
we are not discussing other peoples beliefs, we are discussing YOUR beliefs.
& please dont use chinese this time.
since you are able to describe this, how do you know for sure it is true?
you should read what you wrote here, very close. i call this double talk. no one knows the absolute future.
I KNOW MY FUTURE SO I HAVE NO EMOTION
UMMM, DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE EXACXTLY WHAT DAY YOU ARE GOING TO DIE? if not, then you must have emotion because you do not know your future.
did all the people in this last hurricane katrina know a hurricane would come last week into there future? did you know that also?
as silly as this may sound, i am actually enjoying this little discussion. i do not believe all that you believe, because if i do then i will have belief & have emotion & that would not be good. yes?
btw- i like the challenge of a new fun roller coaster. do you?
peace & much truth!!
B
Bandit
Guest
oh plaidback,
i like that little porsche avatar. i forgot to mention it.
i like that little porsche avatar. i forgot to mention it.
_Z_
from far far away
Hello plaidback.
I don’t believe in belief, yet through meditation and visions I have gained an ‘understanding’ that I think is universal. Thing is if we are a part of ‘ultimate reality’ [don’t ask me to explain – look around] then that gives us – not necessarily a purpose – but a way of being. With no belief or understanding then you have nothing but the notion that we are all chemical robots! Ok so there is atheist morality within that, yet this has no substance to it, one could easily just say why not live like barbarians – rape kill steal – do whatever one wants.
Love is an emotion & emotions are just as much a state of mind as an expression of that state. When we talk about our hearts we do not really mean the old blood pump do we. The ancient Egyptians thought of the heart as the ‘ab’ which is visualized as a vase, when the lid is off we are angry – when on, we are cold hearted, thus as always with Egyptian philosophy it is a matter of balancing the heart & not let the soul/mind go to extremes. Extremes are where most of our problems lay, so it’s not a bad idea to stay ‘chilled’ or balanced!
Truth: ‘the truth is naked’, you cannot say what it is because it is beyond comprehension & lies with the ultimate nature of existence - which is incomparative & boundless [initially stateless] – hence god imho don’t write books, he just gives people an enveloping philosophy that changes over time.
Life after death: you cannot experience death! It is either terminal or a continuance. But nobody thinks about infinity and that life the universe and everything is interactive with ‘it’ [the ultimate nature that is beyond infinity as infinity is relative to finite etc.], this includes us! That is the nature of spirit [fro want of a better word], think of the meaning; ‘everything is in everything’, then the meaning ‘truly universal’ then add it all up & we are part of ‘it’ and ‘it’ is part of us, thence the spirit is the resultant nature of that equation!
The future: you cannot ‘know’ the future – something to do with causality amongst half a million other things, its a whole debate in itself – see my ghost universe thread for my ideas on prophecy if you wish, one can however imo, ‘see’ the future, but visions etc. are metaphoric and visually figurative so as to not disturb the ‘thread of time’, thus subject to interpretation which gives freedom to time if you see what I mean.
Interesting stuff plaidback, bandit, & saponification.
Z
I don’t believe in belief, yet through meditation and visions I have gained an ‘understanding’ that I think is universal. Thing is if we are a part of ‘ultimate reality’ [don’t ask me to explain – look around] then that gives us – not necessarily a purpose – but a way of being. With no belief or understanding then you have nothing but the notion that we are all chemical robots! Ok so there is atheist morality within that, yet this has no substance to it, one could easily just say why not live like barbarians – rape kill steal – do whatever one wants.
Love is an emotion & emotions are just as much a state of mind as an expression of that state. When we talk about our hearts we do not really mean the old blood pump do we. The ancient Egyptians thought of the heart as the ‘ab’ which is visualized as a vase, when the lid is off we are angry – when on, we are cold hearted, thus as always with Egyptian philosophy it is a matter of balancing the heart & not let the soul/mind go to extremes. Extremes are where most of our problems lay, so it’s not a bad idea to stay ‘chilled’ or balanced!
Truth: ‘the truth is naked’, you cannot say what it is because it is beyond comprehension & lies with the ultimate nature of existence - which is incomparative & boundless [initially stateless] – hence god imho don’t write books, he just gives people an enveloping philosophy that changes over time.
Life after death: you cannot experience death! It is either terminal or a continuance. But nobody thinks about infinity and that life the universe and everything is interactive with ‘it’ [the ultimate nature that is beyond infinity as infinity is relative to finite etc.], this includes us! That is the nature of spirit [fro want of a better word], think of the meaning; ‘everything is in everything’, then the meaning ‘truly universal’ then add it all up & we are part of ‘it’ and ‘it’ is part of us, thence the spirit is the resultant nature of that equation!
The future: you cannot ‘know’ the future – something to do with causality amongst half a million other things, its a whole debate in itself – see my ghost universe thread for my ideas on prophecy if you wish, one can however imo, ‘see’ the future, but visions etc. are metaphoric and visually figurative so as to not disturb the ‘thread of time’, thus subject to interpretation which gives freedom to time if you see what I mean.
Interesting stuff plaidback, bandit, & saponification.
Z
Plaidback
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Bandit said:how do you feel what you feel if you have no emotion?
i am glad you absolutley know you future. when your closest friend passes on, you have no emotions.
if you win one million dollars, you have no happiness.
so your religion is called lovescience of destiny?
we are not discussing other peoples beliefs, we are discussing YOUR beliefs.
& please dont use chinese this time.
since you are able to describe this, how do you know for sure it is true?
you should read what you wrote here, very close. i call this double talk. no one knows the absolute future.
I KNOW MY FUTURE SO I HAVE NO EMOTION
UMMM, DO YOU KNOW FOR SURE EXACXTLY WHAT DAY YOU ARE GOING TO DIE? if not, then you must have emotion because you do not know your future.
did all the people in this last hurricane katrina know a hurricane would come last week into there future? did you know that also?
as silly as this may sound, i am actually enjoying this little discussion. i do not believe all that you believe, because if i do then i will have belief & have emotion & that would not be good. yes?
btw- i like the challenge of a new fun roller coaster. do you?
peace & much truth!!
When I've said, that I know my future, I do not know every second of my future, only crucial events, you know, like situations that changing direction
of my life.
It was result of two personal revelations, that have happend in '91 and '05.
Fourteen years ago I was living in Serbia (Yugoslavia), and one day I am having vison ( you, know, like ideas, that you project in your mind)
of flying to New York, having black wife and two kids, nice house, job,
fast car and in general life I've always wanted.
First I was very scared and suspected acid-flashback, but it turned out it was truth. And all of that have happend, and that's where I am right Now.
One day after Pope died, came second one. This time, first came vision of an Thought process that eliminates emotions, and every new day I saw more and more of what is going to happend with me and the world.
True love replaces, all emotions, that is what I feel.
It is natural for me to know how emotions work, because I used to have them.
As I've told you, I am Not Prophet, I can understand prophecies that were written by Prophets, ability to read Metaphores, that's all.
All of this is absolutely personal, It is gift given to me by my blood.
People that call themselfs "Christians" can tell you about so called Holy Spirit.
Knowing the Truth, do not mean you know Everything, it means, you know
what you NEED to know. Everything comes naturaly.
I can explain absolutely everything to you, but, can you feel the same way
about YOUR life, is something I do not have control over.
You probably did not notice, that I am not seling nothing here, and I do not
want to change your "Beliefs", because I do not have control over your
destiny.
Not having beliefs means that everything One knows and feels can be prooven, and not denied.
The only certain truth you can discover yourself is your Life.
If you manage to figure out, that all things that have happend to you,
couldn't happend any other way, because you wouldn't be where you are right now, Alive. That is meaning of everyones life, to stay alive.
Tsunami and Katrina are perfect examples of Destiny. By same Pattern,
You Bandit, are alive today, you lucky bastard
The only thing you, end everyone else have control over are thoughts, because you and everyone else just follow the Path of your lives.
You are making your choices, but what made you create those choices is not yours. Including your flesh, that actualy belongs to your parents.
When you want to proove something belongs to you, it have to be "your"
100%, like car your bank owns, and you say is yours, or your Life,
That was not your choice.
To you, life, and new ideas, have appearance of Roller-Coaster.
To me, my life started in one day, it is one day, and it is going to die in one day. Yesterday have never happend, tomorrow is just new today.
Time is Illusion, including everything that have beginning and end.
much time !
Plaidback said:It is my Favorite Car ( by design ) and also my birthday November ninth
I am driving poor man's Ferrari, '96 Honda Prelude Si
I thought you were referring to a "vehicle out of control"...
Love is a decision, I think that is what you were getting at, but I could be washed up. If this is correct, then I agree.
In love is the emotion, which goes along with fear, and anger and what have you.
Belief is like love, it is a decision. We choose to accept certain things. Once that is done, we base our lives on the choices we made. If our belief is weak, sometimes we turn back, and if it is strong, sometimes we move forward.
v/r
Q
Plaidback
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Truth is pattern that covers facts that you know, that is all you need. to live._Z_ said:Hello plaidback.
I don’t believe in belief, yet through meditation and visions I have gained an ‘understanding’ that I think is universal. Thing is if we are a part of ‘ultimate reality’ [don’t ask me to explain – look around] then that gives us – not necessarily a purpose – but a way of being. With no belief or understanding then you have nothing but the notion that we are all chemical robots! Ok so there is atheist morality within that, yet this has no substance to it, one could easily just say why not live like barbarians – rape kill steal – do whatever one wants.
Love is an emotion & emotions are just as much a state of mind as an expression of that state.
Truth: ‘the truth is naked’, you cannot say what it is because it is beyond comprehension & lies with the ultimate nature of existence - which is incomparative & boundless [initially stateless] – hence god imho don’t write books, he just gives people an enveloping philosophy that changes over time.
Life after death: you cannot experience death! It is either terminal or a continuance. But nobody thinks about infinity and that life the universe and everything is interactive with ‘it’ [the ultimate nature that is beyond infinity as infinity is relative to finite etc.], this includes us! That is the nature of spirit [fro want of a better word], think of the meaning; ‘everything is in everything’, then the meaning ‘truly universal’ then add it all up & we are part of ‘it’ and ‘it’ is part of us, thence the spirit is the resultant nature of that equation!
The future: you cannot ‘know’ the future – something to do with causality amongst half a million other things, its a whole debate in itself – see my ghost universe thread for my ideas on prophecy if you wish, one can however imo, ‘see’ the future, but visions etc. are metaphoric and visually figurative so as to not disturb the ‘thread of time’, thus subject to interpretation which gives freedom to time if you see what I mean.
Interesting stuff plaidback, bandit, & saponification.
Z
If you can understand that everything that happend to you, couldn't happend
any other way, you will start to feel your own truth, which is going to reveal to you other elements which you used to believe in.
It is a gift, or a talent, like singing voice, playing an instrument or sport.
You got truth and true love that is your Life, you are making choices, that are not yours, you only believe they are. Your true love, right now is your life,
your soul, distance between your first and last breath. Your Spirit, is the way
you feel about your life, right now, your beliefs.
When you die, you feel exactly The same way you felt before you were born.
It is the end of the world for you, and absolutely nothing can bring you back,
because your spirit dies with your flesh. All your creations that you left behind, are your spirit, and it lives as long as is part of " live Spirit's" life.
All this have already happend, we just did not get there.
Just like you reading my words, right now, it have happend, because it was your destiny.
That should cover your belief, that people can not experience death
Do you have any Cemetery around you ?? If those bones can speak, they
would give you their "experience"
You got bunch of good hints there Z , try to proove them and you'll find
hint's of truth.
much time !
_Z_
from far far away
I see what you mean by 'truth' now [not ultimate truth n all that], I ‘believe in a similar thing, its like we have what I call ‘the atom self’ [Greek meaning of atom], so everything that we are is within the original seed which are all interconnected. Thus if someone marries twice then has children with the second wife, it had to be so! It is not therefore a sin just the synchronicity [even if somewhat asymmetric – so to say] of individual and universal spiritual evolutions.
The soul remains the same, I presume you mean. Obviously life experience changes something within your continuum, thus when reborn [on earth or in eternity] one moves on respectively.
The spirit is boundless and beyond infinite, therefore has no ends or beginnings, but I see what you mean about spiritual qualities that die, like in Hinduism where knowledge and memory don’t survive death – perhaps.
Yes oh master I will . Although I have found that one can prove nothing, such is the demanding nature of freedom within the spirit, it wont let you harness it.
All in all I think once I understand your language & use of different terms to mean the same thing, then we will understand each other! Have a look around my friend…
ultimately [according to the druidic tradition] one finds that the truth is naked, and cannot be put in bondage any more than its form as spirit.
Z
The soul remains the same, I presume you mean. Obviously life experience changes something within your continuum, thus when reborn [on earth or in eternity] one moves on respectively.
The spirit is boundless and beyond infinite, therefore has no ends or beginnings, but I see what you mean about spiritual qualities that die, like in Hinduism where knowledge and memory don’t survive death – perhaps.
Yes oh master I will
. Although I have found that one can prove nothing, such is the demanding nature of freedom within the spirit, it wont let you harness it.All in all I think once I understand your language & use of different terms to mean the same thing, then we will understand each other! Have a look around my friend…
ultimately [according to the druidic tradition] one finds that the truth is naked, and cannot be put in bondage any more than its form as spirit.
Z
Saponification
Happiness to all
Plaidback said:I love that one !!!, was that you or somebody else ?
Let me tell you lil' sum about me, to clear things up.
I do not have Emotions except for Love ( which is not Emotion, it is state of mind ). Belief is most dangerous emotion, derived from Fear.
Truth is dimension that is going to wipe out all Religions, pretty soon
Can you tell me how do you benefit, by having a Belief.
Like, some people believe in life after physical death, do you see any benefit in
that belief ??
much respect !!
The statement is Buddhist, I just reworded it. The original statement is along the lines of taking your dog out into the backyard to look at the moon. You point your finger at the moon and the dog looks. The moon is the truth, the finger the teachings. Odds-on, though, your dog will look at your finger.
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
On belief...
All humans have beliefs. Your statements you've made are beliefs. Beliefs are simply thoughts we have about the underlying patterns and reasons that account for our experiences and observations. Some beliefs are easy to prove to others, like gravity. Others are not, like most philosophical and spiritual convictions. Beliefs aren't bad, provided we are open to revisions when we are given new information and insight. I like the Buddhist concept of one's beliefs as a raft to carry one to the distant shore. They're important and necessary, but when you get to the farther shore, you'll have a problem if you insist on lugging around the raft.
On emotion and love...
Emotions are not a bad thing, not even fear. Fear can be a very useful way for our instinct to alert us of possible danger to ourselves. Tempered by rational thought, tolerance, and education, our fears can be investigated and either honored or conquered.
Emotions are the spice of life, and I would find life pretty boring without them. Even fear can be exciting- what would extreme sports and roller coasters be without fear to conquer? As long as we balance our emotions and rationality, and deal with our feelings in a healthy manner, there is no danger in being a passionate person and having strong feelings.
Finally, about love. I believe you are referring to agape love- the sort of unconditional, godly type of love. And yes it's wonderful. So are the other kinds. I do not think love is close to hatred at all. I've loved many people, animals, places, activities, and God... in many different ways. I've never experienced hatred, and rarely experience anger. Even when those I love have hurt me deeply, I did not respond with hatred. I responded with sorrow, grief, pain... but not hatred. I think hatred is closer to fear than to love; that is, that hatred generally stems from fear and insecurity.
On Truth...
We can each catch glimpses of Truth/Ultimate Reality/God but as each is boundless, infinite, and eternal and we're fantastically limited by our brains and bodies and the illusion of linear time and so forth... well, let's just say I think it's best to remain open to revisions in my ways of thinking. I form my beliefs based on my spiritual experience, yet always remember that this is limited compared to the infinite wonder of the Great Something that's out there. Besides, I like the constant process of learning and being awestruck by the ever-unfolding journey I'm on.
On life and death... (or should I say just Life?)
I'm with Z on this one. Death doesn't really exist- it isn't the end. It's just a transition. You can tell me all day that it is the end, but my own experience speaks otherwise. Many people have memories of past lives, and if you're one of them, it is nearly impossible to deny reincarnation to oneself without lying to yourself or driving yourself crazy.
Of course, if you do not have these experiences, it is completely reasonable for you to believe in no afterlife, or like many others, in only one life and one afterlife. And perhaps for some people, this is true. It is entirely possible that we don't all have the same journey- perhaps some of us "end," others have only one life and one afterlife, and others of us just live over and over.
Blessings of Peace,
Path
All humans have beliefs. Your statements you've made are beliefs. Beliefs are simply thoughts we have about the underlying patterns and reasons that account for our experiences and observations. Some beliefs are easy to prove to others, like gravity. Others are not, like most philosophical and spiritual convictions. Beliefs aren't bad, provided we are open to revisions when we are given new information and insight. I like the Buddhist concept of one's beliefs as a raft to carry one to the distant shore. They're important and necessary, but when you get to the farther shore, you'll have a problem if you insist on lugging around the raft.
On emotion and love...
Emotions are not a bad thing, not even fear. Fear can be a very useful way for our instinct to alert us of possible danger to ourselves. Tempered by rational thought, tolerance, and education, our fears can be investigated and either honored or conquered.
Emotions are the spice of life, and I would find life pretty boring without them. Even fear can be exciting- what would extreme sports and roller coasters be without fear to conquer? As long as we balance our emotions and rationality, and deal with our feelings in a healthy manner, there is no danger in being a passionate person and having strong feelings.
Finally, about love. I believe you are referring to agape love- the sort of unconditional, godly type of love. And yes it's wonderful. So are the other kinds. I do not think love is close to hatred at all. I've loved many people, animals, places, activities, and God... in many different ways. I've never experienced hatred, and rarely experience anger. Even when those I love have hurt me deeply, I did not respond with hatred. I responded with sorrow, grief, pain... but not hatred. I think hatred is closer to fear than to love; that is, that hatred generally stems from fear and insecurity.
On Truth...
We can each catch glimpses of Truth/Ultimate Reality/God but as each is boundless, infinite, and eternal and we're fantastically limited by our brains and bodies and the illusion of linear time and so forth... well, let's just say I think it's best to remain open to revisions in my ways of thinking. I form my beliefs based on my spiritual experience, yet always remember that this is limited compared to the infinite wonder of the Great Something that's out there. Besides, I like the constant process of learning and being awestruck by the ever-unfolding journey I'm on.
On life and death... (or should I say just Life?)
I'm with Z on this one. Death doesn't really exist- it isn't the end. It's just a transition. You can tell me all day that it is the end, but my own experience speaks otherwise. Many people have memories of past lives, and if you're one of them, it is nearly impossible to deny reincarnation to oneself without lying to yourself or driving yourself crazy.
Of course, if you do not have these experiences, it is completely reasonable for you to believe in no afterlife, or like many others, in only one life and one afterlife. And perhaps for some people, this is true. It is entirely possible that we don't all have the same journey- perhaps some of us "end," others have only one life and one afterlife, and others of us just live over and over.
Blessings of Peace,
Path
B
Bandit
Guest
Ok Plaidback. I will get back to you some more on this in a day or two. i like to learn the logic of others so it will be interesting...love that air time on the bunny hills & the first drop, the first time around is the best.
just one thing for now. if you believe you have no belief, that is a belief but it is not really a belief because we have no belief. and the benefit of having no belief is that we believe we have no belief. therefore we have no belief because that is what we believe.
HOW DID I DO?
much peace!! much time!! much truth!! much belief..NO!!
just one thing for now. if you believe you have no belief, that is a belief but it is not really a belief because we have no belief. and the benefit of having no belief is that we believe we have no belief. therefore we have no belief because that is what we believe.
HOW DID I DO?
much peace!! much time!! much truth!! much belief..NO!!
Plaidback
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First of all, my English sucks, so, with limited dictionary, it's very hard for meQuahom1 said:
not to end up being misunderstud. Especialy because, the way I feel is new to me too. I have always felt need and interest in finding out what is the truth, and now I feel that search is over.
Most important is that you're comfortable with what you feel about above mentioned subjects. I am not forcing nothing here, just trying to explain
what's actualy going on.
There are two different kinds of Love and neither is a decision. Decision is
something you have control over ( only in your beliefs
), and True love, and love ( human emotion ) are dimensions you can't control.Everything that can not be prooven, or it is not certain, is belief, we can not feel belief, we feel what we know.
What we like, or dislike, was predetermined by our genes and DNA, therefore is not our choice, just like our entire life.
B
Bandit
Guest
Plaidback said:
i understand your english & i know what you are saying. there is also personal experience where only another with the same experience can totally relate. it is good to have a foundation but i would not put a cap on searching for truth.
B
Bandit
Guest
Plaidback said:
oooooh i feel it. there is also a way that seems right, but it aint always right.
do you feel this?