One soul, one body, one eden!

[_Z_]

One soul, one body, one eden!



Recently I have been considering how the spirit forms simultaneously and indistinctively [non-separate and mirroring], within/alongside the foetus as it grows in the womb [of a given animal or human]. This for me kind of cuts out the idea of rebirth! So to follow this line of thinking:



Is the world and indeed the whole universe, a soul creation machine? The objective of existence then, is to create environments that mould spirit into life forms that develop the spirit until it reaches a form capable of enjoying and understanding eternity. I suppose I am saying that the Garden of Eden is not where we come from, rather that it is where we are going! Or that Elysium is the world of fully formed souls!



Are we then born to die! Created/formed until we reach readiness for eternity? This would explain why life is short, as it is unnecessary to exist here once we have performed our duties.

Z

 

[dauer]

Life isn't short, just finite.

 

[_Z_]

Dauer, hello.



Life isn't short, just finite.



Nice one! And the spirit is universal and infinite, the soul a continuum [immortal].

Z

 

[Tao_Equus]

Hiya Z

One soul, one body, one eden!



Recently I have been considering how the spirit forms simultaneously and indistinctively [non-separate and mirroring], within/alongside the foetus as it grows in the womb [of a given animal or human]. This for me kind of cuts out the idea of rebirth! So to follow this line of thinking:



Is the world and indeed the whole universe, a soul creation machine? The objective of existence then, is to create environments that mould spirit into life forms that develop the spirit until it reaches a form capable of enjoying and understanding eternity. I suppose I am saying that the Garden of Eden is not where we come from, rather that it is where we are going! Or that Elysium is the world of fully formed souls!



Are we then born to die! Created/formed until we reach readiness for eternity? This would explain why life is short, as it is unnecessary to exist here once we have performed our duties.

Z

Maybe we are not as individual as we imagine. Perhaps our singular lives are but multiple expressions of a 'master' life force. A sperm is alive and so is an egg and together they combine to merge two histories of experience. Both of them carry 'life force' and a 'message' linking the proverbial 'Eve' to the present. As I know you are aware DNA is not the whole picture of exactly what life is nor of how it passes on information from one generation to the next. Since by far the vast majority of individuals manage to reproduce at least once an enormous number of combinations are being created. Maybe its all a big experiment after all. But that which made 'Eve' is still alive in each and every one of us and we, (and Eve), ourselves will go on as long as man exists. Life from that perspective is not short.
Its purpose however is beyond me. I cannot beleive its simply to be capable of 'enjoying and understanding eternity'. If it is I will feel shorthchanged.

 

[_Z_]

Hi T E!



Its purpose however is beyond me. I cannot believe it’s simply to be capable of 'enjoying and understanding eternity'. If it is I will feel shorthchanged.



I lean towards the idea of no purpose – it just is [life is not a question]. I am thinking of the world as a soul creation machine [loosely a Christian philosophy], after that who knows – kind of approach. I would feel even more short-changed if I had to go through a series of incarnations as opposed to one life, to get ‘there’!



Maybe we are not as individual as we imagine. Perhaps our singular lives are but multiple expressions of a 'master' life force



I am inclined to agree. Even the inner-self has no absolute nature or definition. I think of us more like epicentres of universal spirit – but even the very essence of what we are is changeable! The question is, are we thrown from one incarnation to the next, or are we as you say, simply an expression of existence – and the individual is irrelevant. Perhaps there is only one inner-self that is at the heart of all things, and we imagine it to be our essential individuality – but what you consider to be your essence and what others consider to be theirs is in fact the same thing! There is thus only one self and it is none of us.

well, talk about being short-changes eh!

thanx for reply

Z

 

[smkolins]

I cannot beleive its simply to be capable of 'enjoying and understanding eternity'. If it is I will feel shorthchanged.

"Thou hast, moreover, asked Me concerning the state of the soul after its separation from the body. Know thou, of a truth, that if the soul of man hath walked in the ways of God, it will, assuredly, return and be gathered to the glory of the Beloved. By the righteousness of God! It shall attain a station such as no pen can depict, or tongue describe. The soul that hath remained faithful to the Cause of God, and stood unwaveringly firm in His Path shall, after his ascension, be possessed of such power that all the worlds which the Almighty hath created can benefit through him. Such a soul provideth, at the bidding of the Ideal King and Divine Educator, the pure leaven that leaveneth the world of being, and furnisheth the power through which the arts and wonders of the world are made manifest. Consider how meal needeth leaven to be leavened with. Those souls that are the symbols of detachment are the leaven of the world. Meditate on this, and be of the thankful."

 

[Bandit]

One soul, one body, one eden!



Recently I have been considering how the spirit forms simultaneously and indistinctively [non-separate and mirroring], within/alongside the foetus as it grows in the womb [of a given animal or human]. This for me kind of cuts out the idea of rebirth! So to follow this line of thinking:


Z

a soul creating machine? and then we die. i just can not keep up with you Z.

 

[_Z_]

Hi bandit,



Ha yes I don’t explain what I mean very well do I! By soul creation machine, I am thinking that the world is here to bring spirit into existence giving it body. That the soul is literally formed in the world! Then heaven/elysium is our destination. I thought that was a Christian idea - well kinda!

it is an alternative to rebirth, the idea that we live only once! [for ever] 'One soul, one body, one eden'! y'see!

Z

 

[Bandit]

Hi bandit,



Ha yes I don’t explain what I mean very well do I! By soul creation machine, I am thinking that the world is here to bring spirit into existence giving it body. That the soul is literally formed in the world! Then heaven/elysium is our destination. I thought that was a Christian idea - well kinda!

it is an alternative to rebirth, the idea that we live only once! [for ever] 'One soul, one body, one eden'! y'see!

Z

i just mean this- by the time i figure out what you are trying to say on one topic, you are off on a new topic.
i am not sure where the spirit is formed, but it ends up inside of us at some point. maybe it has to travel for eons & light years b4 it gets to us.
you know it does travel very fast when it is free from this mortal.
i am slow (sluggish this time of year) but yes i think i see now.
one soul, one body, one eden. but there are many spirits, just one eden, unless you mean each soul/body is its own eden.

 

[wil]

So we come without connection, and then leave with souls...

I'm still more inclined that I incarnate as a soul decision in order to learn something in 3D, be it love or compassion, or forgiveness..something that can't be learned as a speck of energy, a rock, or a non physical being, something that requires a body and other bodies to react to.

And that should I not achieve this lesson, or should I need more...I go to the body shop, select a couple more suitable parents, make some more soul agreements with other travelers to this plane, bid God adieu for a 'finite time' and then get slapped on the bottom once more.

 

[Tao_Equus]

So we come without connection, and then leave with souls...

I'm still more inclined that I incarnate as a soul decision in order to learn something in 3D, be it love or compassion, or forgiveness..something that can't be learned as a speck of energy, a rock, or a non physical being, something that requires a body and other bodies to react to.

And that should I not achieve this lesson, or should I need more...I go to the body shop, select a couple more suitable parents, make some more soul agreements with other travelers to this plane, bid God adieu for a 'finite time' and then get slapped on the bottom once more.

I love that !!!!

 

[presser_kun]

I find this topic very curious.

How can we know the truth or falsity of any of this?

Perhaps you'll say that knowing is not the point, but I tend to think it is. Else why this question? Why this discussion?

Some would say spirit or soul is nothing more than consciousness' self-contemplation. Others, that it is the only reality.

Where does it come from? Where is it going?

Better to ask (if you believe) from where do WE come? Is not the spirit the real thing, and we the dream? Does it not draw us into existence with itself?

Fun things to think about, no doubt. And not to cast water on a lively discussion, how do these thoughts help me live my life tomorrow?

This is not meant as sarcasm, but an honest question. Or maybe my question is: Should I be concerned for more than my daily life/needs/wants?

Well! I've raised (and lowered) several things here. I'm curious to see what you all think.

peace,

press

 

[Pathless]

I also find this topic very curious, or interesting. It seems to coincide with a lot of thoughts that I've been having lately.

Perhaps our singular lives are but multiple expressions of a 'master' life force.

Certainly I believe this, more and more as time passes. I also believe that as we commune ever more closely with who we are, we lose our sense of self as a separate individual and see our actions, thoughts, and potentials reflected all around us in other people, inert matter, and ideas. This is a funny line to walk though, because if you dive in too quickly or steer left or right a little too much, you may just end up in a cultural straghtjacket. But, that's a little digression.

I find this topic very curious.

How can we know the truth or falsity of any of this?

Perhaps you'll say that knowing is not the point, but I tend to think it is. Else why this question? Why this discussion?

Some would say spirit or soul is nothing more than consciousness' self-contemplation. Others, that it is the only reality.

Where does it come from? Where is it going?

Better to ask (if you believe) from where do WE come? Is not the spirit the real thing, and we the dream? Does it not draw us into existence with itself?

Fun things to think about, no doubt. And not to cast water on a lively discussion, how do these thoughts help me live my life tomorrow?

This is not meant as sarcasm, but an honest question. Or maybe my question is: Should I be concerned for more than my daily life/needs/wants?

Well! I've raised (and lowered) several things here. I'm curious to see what you all think.

Hi, press. I like your avatar, by the way. I totally agree with you that spirit is the real thing and we are a dream within an omniscient spirit--if that is indeed what you are saying, rather than my interpretation-impression of what we [sic] are saying. Oops, I typed we, but meant "you." Forgive me, I've had a few beers. Again, you've asked, "How can we know the truth or falsity of any of this?" I'm not sure that we can, and furthermore, I'm not sure that that matters. Dig this:

What is truth? Is it personal or universal? I could tell you that I believe that I have a personal truth and am following it (although I may not have a very clearly-formed idea of what that exactly is). When I express my personal truth to the world that appears external to me, it seems to effect that world in various ways--depending on the individual entity that I am interacting with at the time, perhaps. In other words, my actions effect the world and that world furthermore effects me and what decisions I may make later; a sort of boomerang effect if you will. I'm also fond of the term feedback loop, especially when prefaced by the word positive: positive feedback loop.

So. If I am able to tap into a personal (perhaps universal) truth within my own spirit and communicate that in a clear way to others, they will be affected (affected? effected? grammarians of the world, help me!) by my expression one way or another. I, in turn, am affected by their actions, right? But if, by the grace of Jeebus, I've tapped into a universal truth--one that resonates not only with me, but with others, one that seems beautiful or just seems to make sense--then they may in turn tap into a facet of that universal truth and begin to express it in their own, individual way. Their "created spirit" will become a creative spirit, interacting with me and the rest of the details of their "external" world in an intentional way--the intention being to fully express a divine potential within him-/herself and therefore affecting others, and ripening the divine aspects of all of physical "creation," or what some more politically-than-spiritually-inclined moral atheists might call, "This messed up ol' world of oil, holy war, and warfare."

"Hit somebody else, now hit somebody else," as the hip-hop group Digable Planets once expressed it. Truth? It's relative. What would you like to focus on? What kind of reality would you like to live in? Concentrate on that. What are you interested in? Work on that. Talk about it. Sing it. Bring it into being. Make it concrete. Create a beautiful sculpture from your cerebral ideals and airy-fairy values. Let's see if we can't unite this fractured world-soul and get beautiful. We could start simple, say by getting shows like COPS and all major news media off of the air once and for all. Maybe people will throw their TVs away and instead stay inside and meditate. Maybe they'll go for a walk or throw a community picnic, with all the neighborhood kids of every hue and color invited. Or maybe they'll keep their TVs, but watch Supernanny with their spouses, or watch Bob Ross paint lots of happy trees. I digress again.

I hope I haven't been too amorphous and vague, and I hope I didn't hijack the thread. Forgive me if I run off at the keyboard.

Peace, love, and language,
"Pathless"

 

[seattlegal]

I am inclined to agree. Even the inner-self has no absolute nature or definition. I think of us more like epicentres of universal spirit – but even the very essence of what we are is changeable! The question is, are we thrown from one incarnation to the next, or are we as you say, simply an expression of existence – and the individual is irrelevant. Perhaps there is only one inner-self that is at the heart of all things, and we imagine it to be our essential individuality – but what you consider to be your essence and what others consider to be theirs is in fact the same thing! There is thus only one self and it is none of us.

And then that pesky little youngster dared to say, "The Emperor has no clothes."

 

[_Z_]

Bandit, hi.



Yea I am sure I’ll run out of ideas for new topics sometime.

Perhaps the spirit is simply there! Its like a sheet of paper upon which ‘reality’ is drawn, thence we and everything else are formed from this universal base.

There are three lines of thought on this that I can see:

• We are formed from conception as new, when we die we have been formed thus continue. The spirit is not separate from physicality, in fact the physical is a form of spirit – there is no duality in it. Perhaps when the human form is deceased, then the spirit goes back to its original nature – the original self, and we are ‘home’? [Nirvana perhaps?]. Or the spirit forms into a replica human in pure spirit i.e. the soul. This is the one life theory.
• We are first formed as single celled primordial life-forms, we then progress through all the evolutions until reaching human form. Once human we have enough universal dexterity and dynamism to break free from ‘this mortal coil’ and become souls and enter eternity. This is the basis of pagan, shamanic and Hindu philosophy.
• We do not exist, only the spirit exists and we are expressions of it. What we consider to be our inner self is in fact the universal self that is in all things. When we die it is of no consequence!

1 and 2 are most likely in my view, as when ‘we are not what we are’. That is to say, whatever we describe ourselves as - we always seam to be something other than that description! We may say we have an inner-self and even an inner most self [Buddhist philosophy] that is the primary nature behind the will, yet none of this is the true ‘nugget’ of that which we are! There is imho a crucial element to reality that is simply ‘us’, but does this apply to an amoeba or a tree or even a mountain. It appears that reality is back to front – with the resultant natures of things determining our progression through time and evolution.



It is like the future creates the past! What we become shapes what we are and were e.g. we are the sahu [transformed soul or body of eternity], we then descend into the natures [evolutionary creatures] that we are composed of. Thus we are a reflection of our true selves, as are the mountains, planets and stars.

The reason why I think this is that, in my experience when we enter a spiritual realm we meet people we know, where both they and we are the sahu! Many ancient cultures believed that eternity runs in the opposite direction to the universe.



Hmm I think I even confused myself there!

Wil, hi



I agree that the dimensions of the soul – like love etc. [as you described] have to be arrived at in order to become a complete soul [see above]. Perhaps reincarnation is needed until we have fully formed ourselves in every way.

The spirit and physical form are one from conception to death [as they are one in real nature], so where and when does the soul enter? Traditionally it is at birth, hence astrology [this is why some babies are born dead - as they have not connected with the relative soul], this though suggests a duality of the soul and spirit! perhaps this is so until they are united as the sahu [final shape of the soul – resultant nature].



What do you chaps think on this duality?



Presser kun, hi.



Well yes we hope to find some sort of solution! I hope the above answers to a degree, where we come from – it will take some debate though I feel!



Well if you know the nature of your beginnings and to what you shall become [resultant nature], then this should help give purpose to your everyday life.



Pathless, hi

I also believe that as we commune ever more closely with who we are, we lose our sense of self as a separate individual and see our actions, thoughts, and potentials reflected all around us in other people, inert matter, and ideas

I see this too although I am not sure as concerns losing the sense of self. Perhaps outer self yes, but there is something that is the true us that defies description – whatever we say it is, it is also something else. However when we think of collectives like ants, plants and nature generally, the idea of individualised spirit seams a little more opaque. I often use the analogy of universal spirit being like an ocean [as the ancient Egyptians saw it] our minds are like vortexes in it – epicentres that fold thought and mind inwards towards our centre – similar to a neutrino is simply spinning energy. Thus there are many kinds of whirlpools, vortexes, fields and ‘currents i.e. thought streams’ yet here again, we can change our very nature of mind and shape of thought, thus essentially we have an inner will and being that can shape and transform reality!



Oh and as for going off topic [I don’t mind] – 'the truth is naked'! I am sure I done a thread on this somewhere.



Thanx for all your replies – this is getting juicy wahoo!



Respect and admiration for the intellects involved



Z

 

[wil]

How can we know the truth or falsity of any of this?

Well we could always jump up and down and say it is in our holy books therefore it is true...get all red in the face and tell others they are wrong and will be condemned for blaspheming our almighty....just like we were taught to do.

Better to ask (if you believe) from where do WE come? Is not the spirit the real thing, and we the dream? Does it not draw us into existence with itself?

The questions of the ages, which each religion, denomination has attempted to answer...and when it doesn't we find/create new waves of thought that we accept

Fun things to think about, no doubt. And not to cast water on a lively discussion, how do these thoughts help me live my life tomorrow?

Gotta love it, where the rubber meets the road...the heck with tomorrow, if what you are practicing does not produce tangible acceptable results today, right now, this moment...if you can't use it in board meetings, family discussions, if it doesn't have practical value....

This is not meant as sarcasm, but an honest question. Or maybe my question is: Should I be concerned for more than my daily life/needs/wants?

Seek ye first the kingdom... For years I was happy in my own world, had my view of spirituality..didn't need a building or a community to belong to...till I found the one that fit my needs that resonated with my being...and then it stepped up my well being, life and outlook a few notches...life is good.

namaste,

 

[Bandit]

Bandit, hi.



Yea I am sure I’ll run out of ideas for new topics sometime.

Perhaps the spirit is simply there! Its like a sheet of paper upon which ‘reality’ is drawn, thence we and everything else are formed from this universal base.

There are three lines of thought on this that I can see:

• We are formed from conception as new, when we die we have been formed thus continue. The spirit is not separate from physicality, in fact the physical is a form of spirit – there is no duality in it. Perhaps when the human form is deceased, then the spirit goes back to its original nature – the original self, and we are ‘home’? [Nirvana perhaps?]. Or the spirit forms into a replica human in pure spirit i.e. the soul. This is the one life theory.
• We are first formed as single celled primordial life-forms, we then progress through all the evolutions until reaching human form. Once human we have enough universal dexterity and dynamism to break free from ‘this mortal coil’ and become souls and enter eternity. This is the basis of pagan, shamanic and Hindu philosophy.
• We do not exist, only the spirit exists and we are expressions of it. What we consider to be our inner self is in fact the universal self that is in all things. When we die it is of no consequence!

1 and 2 are most likely in my view, as when ‘we are not what we are’. That is to say, whatever we describe ourselves as - we always seam to be something other than that description! We may say we have an inner-self and even an inner most self [Buddhist philosophy] that is the primary nature behind the will, yet none of this is the true ‘nugget’ of that which we are! There is imho a crucial element to reality that is simply ‘us’, but does this apply to an amoeba or a tree or even a mountain. It appears that reality is back to front – with the resultant natures of things determining our progression through time and evolution.



It is like the future creates the past! What we become shapes what we are and were e.g. we are the sahu [transformed soul or body of eternity], we then descend into the natures [evolutionary creatures] that we are composed of. Thus we are a reflection of our true selves, as are the mountains, planets and stars.

The reason why I think this is that, in my experience when we enter a spiritual realm we meet people we know, where both they and we are the sahu! Many ancient cultures believed that eternity runs in the opposite direction to the universe.



Hmm I think I even confused myself there!


Z

i dont know what to think about it. i dont see any of it as an absolute dogma & i see the possibility of all of it, or some of it being true sometimes. i also see the possiblity of spirit being temporary for some also- but that is another thought all together.

if the spirit is just simply there as in always there, it seems we would remember more than what we do, say from only the age of 2. one of my aunts thinks we are all angels & God washed away our memory when we become human- not sure how she gets that but she swears by it.

i cant really say, but my hunch for myself is at conception but not limiting that to everyone.
i also see a 'type' of reincarnation when we leave the flesh & take on immortality without this carnal attached.

 

[presser_kun]

Hi, press. I like your avatar, by the way.

Thank you!

What is truth? Is it personal or universal?

Both, I believe. Even though it's important to discover each, the second, insofar as we are able to discern it, impacts and shapes the first. Or should, IMHO.

Truth? It's relative. What would you like to focus on? What kind of reality would you like to live in? Concentrate on that. What are you interested in? Work on that. Talk about it. Sing it. Bring it into being. Make it concrete. Create a beautiful sculpture from your cerebral ideals and airy-fairy values. Let's see if we can't unite this fractured world-soul and get beautiful.

I do, but yet...and yet...

I believe, and passionately so, that there is universal Truth, capital "T," to be discovered. And that it matters.

I do, as I just said, work to create the reality that I want. I sing it (I'm a composer, after all), etc.

But what if my little "t" truth is at cross purposes with b "T" Truth? Doesn't that matter? I think it does.

So I seek. Haven't arrived at much of anything like a conclusion, but I believe I'm better, stronger, more capable for the struggle.

I hope I haven't been too amorphous and vague, and I hope I didn't hijack the thread. Forgive me if I run off at the keyboard.

Running off at the keyboard - what a wonderful expression. I'm certainly prone to it.

I don't think you hijacked the thread (as seen from further posts below). And I appreciate your thoughts.

peace,

press

 

[presser_kun]

Hi there, Z.

Well yes we hope to find some sort of solution! I hope the above answers to a degree, where we come from – it will take some debate though I feel!

Well if you know the nature of your beginnings and to what you shall become [resultant nature], then this should help give purpose to your everyday life.

I agree. Now if only the Great Mind would deign to bequeath All Truth upon me....I mean, I'd certainly be willing to share what I know with others. And I'm sure I could work out a very reasonable charge!

Thanks for your thoughts, Z. Now I'll read the rest of the thread and catch up a little.

peace,

press

 

[Pathless]

But what if my little "t" truth is at cross purposes with b "T" Truth? Doesn't that matter? I think it does.

Yes, I agree that our little "t" truths must coincide and emanate from the universal truth, otherwise we are going against the grain, and will create a mess o' trouble for ourselves and possibly other people. If what we call our personal truth is not informed by the universal truth, it really is no truth at all. Perhaps one of the goals of life is to refine our own personal truth to such a level that it merges into or maybe even becomes universal truth.