The immaculate machine.

[_Z_]

The immaculate machine.



The notion of ultimate form – as relative to a given environment, and the concept of ‘universal elasticity, dynamism and dextrosity’.



Existence is continually performing ‘universal yoga’, it moves in all directions assuming all forms. I believe that at the ‘end’ of any transformative process a ‘relative perfection is reached’, one of the first forms of this is the sphere as its balanced geometry allows it to form the primary shape of everything that exists in this universe. During the process of evolution many forms are reached that have their own kind of perfection…



So what is the ultimate evolutionary form? Is humanity? Is the human form the best tool for interactions with this world?



If not, then what can you foresee as being the immaculate machine? If you could change into any shape – what would be the best?



Imho, the universal spirit [or god, if you like] cannot have a body that represents its form, because anything that is less than it is as itself would be a constraint! [It is shapeless]. Thus in performing universal yoga, the spirit has to take on individualised and other lesser forms, in order to arrive at all possibilities- hence life the universe and everything. So there, it is not 42!



An immaculate machine/body would have a given shape that interacts with its environment most proficiently. A given animal type is perfect at doing what it does, yet it is not as adaptable to a changing environment as we humans are, nor as universally dextrous. The spirit is also an ultimate ‘machine’ or form, that may take on any other form! We have spirit and human form, so if we could shape-shift, then we would have the dextrosity of both and all forms. Sometimes I think of animals as ‘different shaped people’, as if spirit is the shape-shifter and we all progress through a series of incarnations until the soul gains absolute fluidity of form and nature – this then would be our immaculate machine! The ultimate Merlin!



If you were a shape-shifter, what would be the ultimate machine? Organic type for this world and spiritual for the next?



Oh one last thing…



Once you have this form, then how would you use it?



If you could shape the environment [as far as your interactions with it goes], would you? Is this what we become in the end – masters of our own existence, rather than being controlled by it? Perhaps humanity will go the opposite direction – not wanting to control things, thus blending with environments rather than manipulating them! There are then many moral implications and we could ask e.g. is Jesus the immaculate form of god [human universal nature {the essence of the humanative}].

As a Buddhist I would say that, Buddha is immaculate and nirvana is the immaculate machine/form [as formless] in its transparency.


Oh here’s another one…



Does the soul – if being already formed and ‘perfect’ in eden/elysium/nirvana – make itself manifest via the vehicle of the body [e.g. human form]. If so then reincarnation is possible, but why then are we here! If we begin as fully formed then perhaps we are stellar drifters, taking on life and form simply for the experience of it?








Z

 

[path_of_one]

Interesting... and fun to think about. Ah, if only I could shape-shift! My few thoughts in red...

Existence is continually performing ‘universal yoga’, it moves in all directions assuming all forms.

I find that I like this idea, as far as I understand it.

So what is the ultimate evolutionary form? Is humanity? Is the human form the best tool for interactions with this world?

It depends on what you mean by "best." If evolution is scientifically defined, then I'd wager the bacteria are the ultimate evolutionary form. Or maybe cockroaches. In terms of adaptability, bacteria are amazing. In terms of dextrosity, it depends on how you are dextrous. Yeah, we got a thumb and that means I can type pretty easily and hold a pencil. But we're very clumsy at running. We suck at mountain climbing compared to goats and llamas. We're not very good at swimming compared to the grace of fish, dolphins, and sharks. We miss out (presumably) on a lot of what existence on this planet has to offer by not being able to live underwater, fly, etc.

If not, then what can you foresee as being the immaculate machine? If you could change into any shape – what would be the best?

Depends on the experience I want/need. Sometimes I'd love to dissolve completely into non-living stuff too- fire, water, air- or into non-moving stuff like trees.

Sometimes I think of animals as ‘different shaped people’, as if spirit is the shape-shifter and we all progress through a series of incarnations until the soul gains absolute fluidity of form and nature – this then would be our immaculate machine! The ultimate Merlin!

I too see animals, and trees and whatnot, as "people." In some way, I also see the elements, the seasons, and such as having personalities somehow as well. This is really difficult to explain, but they have a "feel" to them and are not neutral or interchangeable processes or categories for me.

Personally, I don't think we go through a series of incarnations for a specific reason. Maybe some of us only get one life, as a human being. Maybe some reincarnate forever. Currently, I think I do reincarnate and that's pretty much because that's what my spirit was created to do and what I like to do. I like the experience of life. I like the fluctuation over time of being spirit and being organic. I realize this view doesn't fit very well with Christianity, at least not "mainstream," but I have experiences spiritually that point to this for me.

I would love to be a shape-shifter and experience the alteration of living in different forms in a single life. I've had vision-dreams that were very real of shape-shifting- dissolving into water, becoming animals, and they were amazing. Kind of mind-blowing really, and forever changed the way I looked at the world around me and the possibilities of what could be, and what the "people" in the environment around us could experience.

If you were a shape-shifter, what would be the ultimate machine? Organic type for this world and spiritual for the next?

I like the back-and-forth of the two, and I suspect it might be very wonderful to be a spirit in this world. Not a ghost, or trapped in any way, but some sort of nature spirit with its own purpose and life. Though how that life would end and one would become incarnated again is a question I've never pondered...

Once you have this form, then how would you use it?

Use it? I'd use any form to basically just love, to the best of my ability, those around me. To spread the light of God/Spirit/etc. And to find joy in living.

If you could shape the environment [as far as your interactions with it goes], would you? Is this what we become in the end – masters of our own existence, rather than being controlled by it?

Hmm... interesting question. Do you mean in terms of some sort of magic, in which the will is made manifest? Would I be alone and creating my entire environment, or would it be a collaborative process of all beings? I don't know if we ever really become masters of our own existence, but I think we are co-creators, whether we realize it or not. We are not really controlled by our existence, though we may have limitations. Or perhaps we only perceive that we have limitations and thus limit ourselves.

I have some very specific thoughts on this subject, but they're too lengthy to go into here. Suffice it to say that I believe that a world that is very changeable according to the will of its inhabitants- not just through ordinary action but through thought itself- has the capacity to manifest some horrific problems. Think of all the problems we have here with the big gap between thought and action, and the amount of effort it took to produce nuclear weapons, for example. Then imagine if all it took was thought and will. Scary... And yet, the possibilities for an amazing and beautiful world are also there.

Does the soul – if being already formed and ‘perfect’ in eden/elysium/nirvana – make itself manifest via the vehicle of the body [e.g. human form]. If so then reincarnation is possible, but why then are we here! If we begin as fully formed then perhaps we are stellar drifters, taking on life and form simply for the experience of it?

That's pretty much why I think I'm here. I just like experiencing life. I think I was created to be a very organic, nature-centered person, and that God knows I just love to feel the wind, the rain, to experience stuff for which you need skin and senses and finite form. I also think I'm tied intrinsically to the natural world of any time/place in which I am incarnated. It's sort of "what I do"- I love God's creation. I wonder and marvel at it. I sit in awe a lot and just generally love beings. Not very exciting of a "job," but I really think that's my primary "purpose," if we have such in the world. Of course, I do stuff too and try to make the world a better place, but I mostly just feel like I'm around to find joy in nature. And I do think that there are lessons to learn and other people who will learn from me, which I think is true of all of us. I don't think there are specific goals or lessons for this lifetime- as in, learn this and then you get nirvana/heaven/whatever. But I think there are opportunities for me to grow.



Path

 

[Quahom1]

As a Buddhist I would say that, Buddha is immaculate and nirvana is the immaculate machine/form [as formless] in its transparency.
Z

And I would say, the immaculate machine is the woman giving birth to a child, while her mate is holding tight to her hand, followed by her mate taking the child and cutting the chord that links the two, thus causing the child to cling to him, in fear and for comfort. Then he gives the quieted baby back to his mother, and the three begin a life together.

Hey, it works...

 

[_Z_]

Hi Kim,



Bacteria and cockroaches can’t fly to the moon, thus they are less dynamic than we humans. I am afraid you have to think of something superior rather than inferior to find ‘the ultimate interactive form’ or immaculate machine. unless cocroaches are lots of merlins!



Depends on the experience I want/need. Sometimes I'd love to dissolve completely into non-living stuff too- fire, water, and air- or into non-moving stuff like trees



I also see these things as equally ‘alive’ and of spirit as we are. Spirit is universal. This is why spirit is an immaculate machine as it may take on any form and is all forms, it has universal dextrosity. Yet every time we describe a given thing, it is something other than that description! Which leaves me wondering if there is an essential ‘acorn’ to all things i.e. that which it is, rather than that which describes it. This inner self [heart of the atom-self] is from whence the will, senses and being arise from. So perhaps the inner self is a mirror of the universal self and is also an immaculate machine! Then we could say the bodily form or element [like fire, light etc.] is an extension of the inner acorn/self and perhaps it is not about considering things in terms of hierarchies i.e. which is the best form, rather it would be about the fact that the self can experience all of these forms and each has equal purpose, thus there is no lesser or higher – just a continuum of experience.

Interesting that you brought me to this point!



They have a "feel" to them and are not neutral or interchangeable processes or categories for me



This is interesting, what is an inner self of the elements? As a druid I believe the weather is made up of spirit forms [this is how it is read], yet we are dissolving centres somewhat here! Perhaps, inner self can take different forms – interestingly; these forms may be interchangeable e.g.

Imagine one was the ultimate Merlin, and then we would be able to change every nature or aspect of our existence! This would include even the inner most self. I remember reading a similar notion in Buddhist philosophy – of innermost self. Seams like the thing itself - that which we are and all things essentially are, is so universally flexible that it defies explanation even in metaphoric terms – but what ever it is [we essentially are], then it’s truly is the immaculate & naked, self transforming and universally responsive [can be changed by the environment] machine – the ultimate Merlin.



Or something like that eh!



Would you not rather re-incarnate to eternity? Rather than this droll old planet! Then would it not be nice to be a rabbit for a day – or a deer or indeed a god/goddess? You see why I aspire to universal transformability; with all eternity to live then why not experience many things – perhaps that is what we are doing now as humans in this era! I see the spirit and spirit forms [nature spirits – earth mothers children] have a yearning to take body [except for Buddhists], they fleet and swerve here and there in amongst the undercurrents of existence, waiting in the eternal womb to have the privilege of existence! Maybe the centralised acorn-self [universal singularity] is the essential nature of the masculine principle in spirit and the void is where they meet and take form. What is your take on mother earth [and other ‘gods’] in their impersonalised natures?



Use it? I'd use any form to basically just love, to the best of my ability, those around me. To spread the light of God/Spirit/etc. And to find joy in living.



If I could become a god or ultimate merlin, I would only wish to find balance and harmony, so as to fit with environments rather than manipulate them. I think people who manipulate [in everyday life] cause the spirit to reflect their negatives back upon themselves, until they learn universal equality.



Would I be alone and creating my entire environment, or would it be a collaborative process of all beings?



In eternity it is both imho, I think this world however is someone else’s creation/vision/transformation! Or from a non-anthropomorphic perspective – this world is its own existence – the theatre in which we play. Ha that reminds me – our true inner self I call ‘the actor’ – make any sense!



I agree – that the will of the inhibitors of a world has an interactive effect. And yes it is fortunate that we cannot make things manifest by thought alone.



So you are a stellar drifter who loves life! That’s cool, I suppose if we imagine a time and place were the soul has learned and experienced everything it wishes too, then all we can do is continue being ‘the actor’ in an ever-changing play. This could of course all be infantile and the mature soul simply retires into nothingness! Imagining never ending life seams like a strain, yet this is as we think of it in a linear sense. I think that if we could experience ‘the whole [of everything] at once’ then we need experience things no more, so perhaps nirvana is a state of not experiencing, nothing arises in the mind, and the spirit is still and infinite [infinity has no movement whatsoever. Before I go there I think I too shall enjoy the play!





Quahom1. hi.

And I would say, the immaculate machine is the woman giving birth to a child, while her mate is holding tight to her hand, followed by her mate taking the child and cutting the chord that links the two, thus causing the child to cling to him, in fear and for comfort. Then he gives the quieted baby back to his mother, and the three begin a life together.

What a beautiful notion! I see what you mean in extension – what we are to each other and how we treat and think of each other, is - when done with grace and love – an immaculate moment! So gods creation is your immaculate machine! I wonder what birth into heaven is like? Same without the buckets of blood probably



Respect



Z

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Z,


don't want to derail your thread...

i had no idea you were a Buddhist

metta,

~v

 

[_Z_]

namaste vajra,



I had no idea either! Perhaps I did not write that correctly, I should have said ‘if I were a Buddhist’. That’s just the way I think – rather than us and them 'a dualistic thought process', it is more I the other who is a reflection of the I that is ‘me’, as if I am the other i.e. the said Buddhist, thus I am putting myself into the position amongst things that one who is the buddhist would be in.
sounds more complex than it is of course.


I have studied Buddhism somewhat and spent many hours meditating upon the philosophy and ideas of it - although viewed in my own particular way. There is only one reality, thus our faiths have many parallels.

Z