Universal temples!

[wil]

Actually I did not know that Catholicism was once considered universal!

Not that Catholicism was considered universal, they created their own importance by naming themselves universal.

Like a company calling itself World Bank, or World Gym, World Series, or Seattle's Best Coffee, International Juggling Association, or Super Bowl...you create a system and give it a name which implies acceptance by all...

It is actually one issue I have with the concept of a Universal Church, 'who says?' The holier than thou, self agrandizing aspect of it (despite any semblance of reality or intent to defraud)

 

[earl]

With respect, Z, why should there be universal temples (or universal spirituality/religion)? All levels of Life are comprised of both unity and multiplicity. Skin cells are not organ cells, yet do they not come together into 1 body? Individuals in family or community-one and the many. Life animates all living things, but do we need to see only 1 outward form? I rather like the way that Shunryu Suzuki put it in his classic book, "Beginner's Mind," that Reality is "not one, not two." That is, in discussing the mind-body interaction, for instance, he was speaking of how our minds and are our bodies were both distinct yet interrelated as one, adding that humans had a tendency to think if something was not "one," it had to be "two." His reply was "not one, not two." Form and formlessness-not emptiness or form. You try to force Spirit into one particular form, you kill its appropriate expression. Have a good one-or two , Earl

 

[_Z_]

hi earl,

Err that sounds exactly like how I think of universalism!


Primary formula – ‘IT’ = either neither and both of a dichotomy.



I have often talked of the multiplicity and the one. Both are questionable concepts – oneness cannot be complete without being absolute, which is impossible because of the multiplicity and vice versa. The whole idea is to find a way through the duality maze – the idea as you say that the ‘our minds and our bodies were both distinct yet interrelated as one’! There is apparent and holistic separateness & oneness, reality utilises and observes both, it does this by separating levels of existence into the subtle [or joined] and the gross [the distinct].

Religion can be thought of as the same as race and culture – if we were to blend all into one then we would have a beige monoculture of one race, resulting in a continual status quo. Universalism is not the idea of blending all into one, as that would be mono-ism, it is to except and embrace diversity as well as unity and gain dynamism through it.



To be universal is to be all – simple as that, so yes I will enjoy my ones and two’s

respect

Z

 

[earl]

Perhaps I misunderstood your philosophical stance through this thread, Z. I thought you were advocating against all organized "forms" of religious/spiritual practice and expression in favor of some sort of amorphous Mega-form; i.e., the "Universal Temple." Take care, Earl

 

[suanni]

Universal temples!




In this multicultural and multi-faith age, is in not time that anyone may worship as they please? And in the same place! [Could be difficult in some respects]. Most churches are half empty, so why not fill them – with people and ideas!

Well it works here doesn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if we had places like this forum but for real!



If not churches, then I hope there comes a day when we will all share universal temples of some kind!


Z

I had this vision around the turn of the millenium. I thought it would be more fitting to build a temple of sorts to accommodate all faiths rather than all the silly things that were built. We do have a multi faith, multi cultural population and it would demonstrate a kind of unity. All faiths share a similar thread.
However no sooner had I thought it, I thought of the reality of it and had all the backing of history behind the reality. One faith would squabble with another and wouldn't share, wouldn't fit a timetable, wouldn't conduct a service whilst the 'unclean/demon worshippers' were in the place or would be out to convert one congregation to their faith. Instead of a place of worship/peace it would turn into a house of war and in no time the dominant faith would see fit to claim the temple for their sole purpose and it would be unlikely to be the one who uses it most, just the best war monger.
I know I sound pessimistic and I know we all discuss our faith in peace on here but this is a rare site.
I would love one day for all the faiths of the world to realise what they have in common rather than what divides them but I don't think I'm going to see it in my lifetime.

 

[_Z_]

Suanni, hi



I see what you mean, although the duality mainly occurs as a result of seperateness! Hmm except in the case of jesus and the jewish temples eh!

I do think that the labels cause duality and general friction, perhaps in the next millennium we’ll arrive at universal temples.

There seams to be a general ‘blending’ throughout history: tribes become city states that in turn become countries, then empires then united states [EU etc]. peoples and culures are blending along with ideas, so who knows!

respect

Z

 

[suanni]

Suanni, hi


I do think that the labels cause duality and general friction, perhaps in the next millennium we’ll arrive at universal temples.


respect

Z

Yeah, labels! Who needs them? They cause friction within sectors of faith. Hopefully one day there will be universal temples. Hopefully one day mankind will seek understanding of each other and put their differences aside but I ain't holding my breath

 

[wil]

However no sooner had I thought it, I thought of the reality of it and had all the backing of history behind the reality. One faith would squabble with another and wouldn't share, wouldn't fit a timetable, wouldn't conduct a service whilst the 'unclean/demon worshippers' were in the place or would be out to convert one congregation to their faith. Instead of a place of worship/peace it would turn into a house of war and in no time the dominant faith would see fit to claim the temple for their sole purpose and it would be unlikely to be the one who uses it most, just the best war monger.

I still can't get the mall concept out of my mind....and I see the opposite of the above happening....initially it will be the more liberal of the faiths that take up space and willingly gather together as they explore as they feel safe with the old...if you love it set it free....thought...the freedom to explore other thought, to mingle with people from other faiths...

In short time it will become a model of cooperation, of utilzing space together of savings and growth and the people will come...and then those you speak about who would first shun the idea will find a need to take part or wither... the concept of utilizing facilities for multiple purposes would free up the land that is taken up for all these other places as well...Could you imagine selling the church for umpteen millions to take part in the mall and putting the excess to good....

 

[Neoplatonist]

I still can't get the mall concept out of my mind....and I see the opposite of the above happening....initially it will be the more liberal of the faiths that take up space and willingly gather together as they explore as they feel safe with the old...if you love it set it free....thought...the freedom to explore other thought, to mingle with people from other faiths....

Now you've got me thinking about it as well. A religious version of Disney's EPCOT comes to my mind. One can wander around and sample the various beliefs in their miniature versions just like you can visit EPCOT's "countries." I can join the Charismatic Christians for some rousing song at 9:00 and then cool down with some Friends' silence at 10:30......or maybe some Sufi "twirling" at 9:30 and some Plotinian meditation at 10:45. Wow, it does sound rather impious.

I bet the food court would be interesting, though.

 

[dayaa]

hi all long time no see.

woooow what a wonderful thread. i really, really like the mall idea. i can really see it working. i see it as a sort of real life version of this site, and it could work with the same sort of regulations that govern this site, and in the nature of things the people who would be interested in the mall would be the more liberal minded of each group and prepared to abide by those rules. each group could have their own specific area to worship according to their own tradition and within that area only, each group could be allowed to push their own beliefs, but there could also be general areas for interfaith discussion governed by rules of conduct, and leisure activities, cafeterias etc which would be open to all with no discrimination. i too believe that all religions have far more in common than they ever had differences, but the differences have been hyped up into conflicts. if people had a chance to get to know each other as people in a neutral territory, a chance to understand each others beliefs without prejudice i am sure we could all come much closer together. would it work? i think it would be worth a try and only time and evolution will tell if it would work or not. the exclusivists can still keep their own churches, mosques, temples.....those who are interested can go to the mall....who will become the majority....only time will tell. an interesting point on universality.....if people are forced to submit to an imposed universality, they rebel against it, clinging to their diversity, however if universality is intoduced gently to willing recipients people do tend to come together. look at recent political history. look at the collapse of the soviet union for example, and the growth of the EU. although there are frictions within the EU it is only a handful of die-hards in any country who seriously believe that we should withdraw. somewhere earlier in this thread it was mentioned that diversity is good and that merging into one mega-culture would cripple diversity. I disagree with this point of view...beige is good. basically, in my opinion we are all one human race and there will always be diversity because we are all indviduals and we all have minds to think. unfortunately diversity can be a cause of conflict and i think it's time we tried to get past that. I think we cannot solve all problems and all differences over night and we certainly cannot impose some sort of universalism on people, but steps towards creating an atmosphere where people can come to a closer understanding has got to be a good thing. come on brian! you've done a fantastic job with this site.....when are you going to open up a mall? i for one will certainly make the effort to visit. see you all there

 

[suanni]

All my reservations aside I still think it would be one heck of an idea, certainly be worth a try. And your concept dayaa certainly sounds very workable.
Why should mankind squabble over minor differences?