Universal temples!

[_Z_]

Universal temples!

Sorry that I may have not answered any posts for a few days - computer trouble y know [I have not been receiving e-mail notifications].

This is very controversial!


In my village there is a church, as a 'paganesque' druid I cannot worship there or even go there just to debate ideas and philosophies. It is fine that others can build their own temples, yet the community cannot afford more, otherwise our ancestors would have built a bigger church! There are muslims and Hindu’s in my village too – and they have to travel to the nearest town to worship!



So what I am saying is this: does the Christian church have the right to dominate/dictate, And to stop other religions from utilising ‘our churches’ in what ever religious means we wish? [within reasonable perameters]



In this multicultural and multi-faith age, is in not time that anyone may worship as they please? And in the same place! [Could be difficult in some respects]. Most churches are half empty, so why not fill them – with people and ideas!

Well it works here doesn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if we had places like this forum but for real!



If not churches, then I hope there comes a day when we will all share universal temples of some kind!



Just something I was thinking about, as my wife was talking about her desire to belong and share with others.



Z

 

[wil]

There used to be three churches that met in a YMCA, an evangelical praise and singing worship; an apostolic fire and brimstone church, and a unity metaphysical educational center..

I also knew of a combination Methodist Church/Synogogue.

In reading your post I envisioned a Mall, looking down the main hall with all the names of differning religions and denominations, and in the middle the largest potluck, fellowship hall you ever saw... they'd have the parking, the ability to share space for their own events, a Kinkos to handle all their printing and copying needs and donate the profits, grocery stores and the like, making it one stop shopping when you came on days other than the sabbath for worship or classes.

I really see this as a pheasabilty....the religious mall, find an abandoned shopping mall and just turn it into a mega comparative worship place...stores would flock back in to gain the rental space since the 'anchors' guarantee the traffic.

How about a movie theater that didnt' make it...built in sanctuaries...see the marquee now...

 

[_Z_]

Yes I can see that wil, cirtainly an idea for cities and large towns anyway. Then it would need to scale down, at village level there would only be the one room – this could be problematic! It is a shame as in ancient cultures religion was not confined to different churches; it was simply a part of communal life.



I was just watching a program about Stonehenge and Durrington, and how the community there would hunt wild game and then have great feasts [pig roasts – with honey] and festivities – a traditional Christmas indeed! Our ancestors had universal churches! It is a shame that religion now divides rather than unites.



There is another point: if we did share our religious space, then we would soon understand each other more! I feel it would remove some of the duality, as we would know each other – Christian with Muslim etc.

 

[Popeyesays]

Universal temples!

Sorry that I may have not answered any posts for a few days - computer trouble y know [I have not been receiving e-mail notifications].

This is very controversial!


In my village there is a church, as a 'paganesque' druid I cannot worship there or even go there just to debate ideas and philosophies. It is fine that others can build their own temples, yet the community cannot afford more, otherwise our ancestors would have built a bigger church! There are muslims and Hindu’s in my village too – and they have to travel to the nearest town to worship!



So what I am saying is this: does the Christian church have the right to dominate/dictate, And to stop other religions from utilising ‘our churches’ in what ever religious means we wish? [within reasonable perameters]



In this multicultural and multi-faith age, is in not time that anyone may worship as they please? And in the same place! [Could be difficult in some respects]. Most churches are half empty, so why not fill them – with people and ideas!

Well it works here doesn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if we had places like this forum but for real!



If not churches, then I hope there comes a day when we will all share universal temples of some kind!



Just something I was thinking about, as my wife was talking about her desire to belong and share with others.



Z

I'd suggest the nearest Baha`i Temple, but if you're in England then you'd have to go to Frankfurt, Germany.

The problem is the churches OWN the property so can dictate what can and cannot be held there.

As to solutions, you might consider getting together with the Hindus and Muslims and see if you cannot rent a room, or perhaps build a pre-fab building to do what you wish.

Regards,
Scott

 

[sara[h]ng]

So what I am saying is this: does the Christian church have the right to dominate/dictate, And to stop other religions from utilising ‘our churches’ in what ever religious means we wish? [within reasonable perameters]

I would say that the Christian church has all the right in the world to dominate/dictate how Christian churches are used. It is the nature of human society that not everybody can be perfectly happy all of the time, so the society caters to the majority. While not always appropriate, I think this is one area where the majority rules.
If the majority of a community is Christian, some non-Christians may feel a little left out, but that doesn't mean that the majority has to change to accommodate. Christians built or funded the building of their churches and so if you would like a place to worship, you can collect others like you and build or fund one of your own.

Sounds harsher than I meant it. Sorry.

- Sarah

 

[wil]

Of course the owner of any building has the right to use it as they choose within zoning and discrimination regulations and enforcement.

However that is not the vision I started playing with from the post, the reality is when we talk about wastes of space most of these buildings are vastly underutilized.

So the concept I am playing with is creating something out of something that isn't being utilized, a mall having a hard time making ends meet a movie theater recently closed by the megaplex, create a theoplex...a religious bookstore containing variety, set up classrooms and rent space, use the theater for the groups that are currently begging/borrowing space in schools...create them offices and church/synagogue/temples....to which a number of thoughts can flourish and people can mingle.

yes there will be the issues we have on this site akin to the chinese kiosk at the food court with those out front offering teriaki chicken to suck you in....

 

[_Z_]

Sarah,

If the majority of a community is Christian, some non-Christians may feel a little left out, but that doesn't mean that the majority has to change to accommodate. Christians built or funded the building of their churches and so if you would like a place to worship, you can collect others like you and build or fund one of your own.

Ooh that did sound harsh, especially as the Christians often built their churches upon ancient temple sites! And forced everyone upon pain of death by burning, to become a part of their religion, and stole our festivals! And there are not that many church goers these days – in my area there are thousands of pagans, but we meet at pubs.

I am only really saying all this concerning the future!



Wil,



I am more thinking along the lines of ancient Greek forums, where philosophers met. But yes the capitalists have missed that aspect of your idea, I wonder how long for!



There is an interesting parallel between churches and ancient temples.



I saw a documentary about Madagascar – they still build stone circles there! They brought a priest from there to Stonehenge and asked him what he thought the stone circle was about he simply said ancestor worship! Then he said how stone solidifies the memory! In the time team program on TV yesterday [as said earlier], the archaeologists connected the wood circle at Durrington with Stonehenge via the river. When we bury our dead in churches, a wooden cross is first placed by the grave then later on the stone. Similarly ancient worshipers would hold ceremonies at the ‘wood’ henge [at winter solstice], then continue to ‘Stone’ henge! So I am now seeing Stonehenge as like a graveyard [even if people were not generally buried there] and a church/temple combined with the stones as like tombstones [funny how the stones appear like people!] – a place of ancestor worship and veneration [as well as a general temple].
In Madagascar, the people don’t cover the dead, but leave the tomb open. At certain times they remove their ancestors and lately departed from the tomb, wrapping them in blankets sometimes putting makeup/paint on their faces [even if they are just skulls] – could this have been the same at long barrows and granges etc?



I see no reason why e.g. druids cannot see churches in the same light as the stone circles, and Christians as they see it. Of course there would have to be restrictions on kinds of worship, generally a universal philosophy and religion would suffice for all.



Z

 

[pohaikawahine]

while I like the idea of universal temples, I prefer the concept of simply living your life in balance with all around you including your neighbors .... there are many people that don't worship in temples or other church structures .... stone circles are one of my favorite symbols (they are found in many cultures and traditions) including those of the south pacific .... on some of the small islands in Micronesia you will still see the circle of stones that the chief's council would sit at, but they are symbols .... the stone circle of twelve is found in several traditions and is related to an inner circle of "stones" or "gates" .... they are related to the 12 pair of cranial nerves that operate the entire inner energy system that moves up and down the spinal column (also the symbolized in the staff) .... my hawaiian name is connected with a circle of twelve .... I will break it down for you 'pohai' = circle, 'ka' = of, 'wahine' = women .... it has other meanings as well and the keys to the ancient knowledge are held by a circle of twelve women on one of the islands .... I can go no further on this, but only to say that the stone circles are symbols of an ancient way .... there are also biblical references to the circle of stones .... the world is our universal temple when we return to the balance .... he hawai'i au, pohaikawahine

 

[_Z_]

Oh me and my neighbour don’t get on, at least on one side, and I too like finding balance – not everyone is that open minded though! My wife likes the idea of having somewhere to go and meet, where she may feel a part of something. There are many local groups, but they are of one kind or another – not the same as all-inclusive y’know.

Interesting as concerns the gateway circles and the 12 cranial nerves. I too hope humanity returns to the balance.

btw, all. i do not wish to stop christians worshiping in churches! I wonder if I should get some christian yoga classes going at our church. I cant see 'em going for it but i'll try when i get the chance.

 

[wil]

Christian Yoga? Made me wonder, and then I remembered the Son Salutation...the Yoga Sun Salutation said with the Lord's Prayer at intervals with the poses...

Yoga classes are extemely popular...as is Tai Chi, like other classes your church runs, if they find an instructor odds are it'll catch on...

 

[_Z_]

Wil,



Yes I would say so too. Yoga is also mind-yoga, the adapted son salutation is a good idea, but what about preaching in an open philosophical manner – this is yoga too. Then there is meditation; I don’t understand why Christians are against it! Isn’t deep prayer or contemplation similar? What could be wrong with meditating upon Christian ideas and the bible or life! I am sure there are a million monastic hymns that could be used as chants – didn’t monks do that! Considering Protestants don’t have monasteries, I think it would be a good idea to utilise churches as the people’s monasteries.



Just ideas!

i think on reflection, that universal temples are a thing of the distant future - if at all! all-inclusiveness is perhaps better?

 

[Bandit]

Universal temples!

Sorry that I may have not answered any posts for a few days - computer trouble y know [I have not been receiving e-mail notifications].

This is very controversial!


In my village there is a church, as a 'paganesque' druid I cannot worship there or even go there just to debate ideas and philosophies. It is fine that others can build their own temples, yet the community cannot afford more, otherwise our ancestors would have built a bigger church! There are muslims and Hindu’s in my village too – and they have to travel to the nearest town to worship!



So what I am saying is this: does the Christian church have the right to dominate/dictate, And to stop other religions from utilising ‘our churches’ in what ever religious means we wish? [within reasonable perameters]



In this multicultural and multi-faith age, is in not time that anyone may worship as they please? And in the same place! [Could be difficult in some respects]. Most churches are half empty, so why not fill them – with people and ideas!

Well it works here doesn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if we had places like this forum but for real!



If not churches, then I hope there comes a day when we will all share universal temples of some kind!



Just something I was thinking about, as my wife was talking about her desire to belong and share with others.



Z

interesting Z
i travel almost 90 miles to get to my home church & look forward to getting there.

i dont know what that is like to be in a city with only one church but it sounds icky & i would probably get kicked out.
i suppose if the people who go there are funding it or subscribing to it, then they should abide by whatever it is that is going on there & not try to make waves. that does not make it a dictatorship, i dont think anyway. it is when a government with an agenda starts telling everyone this is what you have to believe that i see problems.

it does work well here. but there are still some boundaries & everyone respects those boundries & tries to continue in love even if there are differences.

could you start your own little church & meetings & invite people as you go? or does that other one & only church cause problems with people doing that?

i have a hindu family who lives 3 houses down, a catholic who lives across the street, a muslim couple a couple of doors down who always come by walking their dog & i get along pretty well with them all & have never had any bad outs. one of best friends is into new age & he knows what i believe.

 

[wil]

Then there is meditation; I don’t understand why Christians are against it!

we spend 10 minutes in meditation in service after every talk.

During Ember Days I've gone to silent retreats...a day of meditation four times a year...a day to rekindle, to tend the embers of your soul.

Spent some time at a Jesuit Monastary.... meditating or mantras all day...

Our church believes prayer is telling God where he made mistakes in this here creation and informing him of our method of correction....where as meditation is listening..

 

[_Z_]

wil

Our church believes prayer is telling God where he made mistakes in this here creation and informing him of our method of correction



I am not sure if I believe in god the creator, but if he created the universe it would have to have all the aspects that it has. Also if you create one thing, then due to the nature of existence [principle and law], a whole host of other things arise. If there was only god there would be nothing else, thus I would presume it is not all gods fault! Perhaps he is the creator of life in the ‘shell of existence’ [in druidry this is how the goddess works!], but existence is of its own doing? So rather than us correcting his mistakes, we are helping him do his good work. So it is therefore our duty to make this temporary world more pleasant for souls to live in, and to teach new souls [children] and each other thence making ready for eternal life in peace.



Make any sense?

 

[wil]

Totally understand what you are saying Z.

Step further the concept that he already knows what you ask also eliminates the need, especially for any begging beseeching type prayer.

That is why I think the listening (meditation) is oh so powerful.

I am not sure if I believe in god the creator

I think what determines that more than anything is your definition of God.

namaste,

 

[Popeyesays]

In my faith meditation and prayer are linked. But there are limitations to what prayer and meditation can achieve:
"The meditations of the profoundest thinker, the devotions of the holiest of saints, the highest expressions of praise from either human pen or tongue, are but a reflection of that which hath been created within themselves, through the revelation of the Lord, their God. Whoever pondereth this truth in his heart will readily admit that there are certain limits which no human being can possibly transgress. Every attempt which, from the beginning that hath no beginning, hath been made to visualize and know God is limited by the exigencies of His own creation -- a creation which He, through the operation of His own Will and for the purposes of none other but His own Self, hath called into being. Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days? "
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 317-319)

Regards,
Scott

 

[redindica]

hi all
I havent had time to read the whole thread...but I think the concept of a universal temple is a great one.

The idea that we could worship together from differing faiths would surley be a resounding counter balence to the extremist and fundamentalists that seem to dominate any discussion on religion nowadays.

Peace

 

[_Z_]

Redindica, hello.

The idea that we could worship together from differing faiths would surley be a resounding counter balance to the extremist and fundamentalists that seem to dominate any discussion on religion nowadays.

I agree but ‘worship’ is where we run in to problems. A philosophy forum attached to religious buildings [or part of], I think is preferable – just so we don’t tread on each others toes y’know!



Z

 

[iBrian]

I don't think it's going to be possible to have a universal place of worship for all faiths - there's too much ritual and doctrine involved in worship that it would be difficult to reconcile the sense of sanctity to a general community, in my opinion - though I *think* some UK universities offer a "faith center" where they are used for by different faiths to some degree.

 

[wil]

I don't think it's going to be possible to have a universal place of worship for all faith

I've been pondering more this utopian concept after posting to the faith v. religion thread...

Wonder how many eons it would take to create an acceptable universal temple? I hate to say it is impossible wouldn't want to negate that. But despite my feelings that each religion came from the same source or the Bahai concept that we are all basically saying the same thing, that we have more similarities than differences...the fact is the differences I think are deal breakers.

Like could a christian go to a place where it Jesus wasn't proclaimed lord and saviour?

Could a Catholic go where Mary wasn't virginal or without origional sin.

Could a Hindu give up all their Gods and stories for one?

So what would this universal service look like?

I think this is why I immediately discounted the original thought and saw in my mind the Theological Mall...a forum where we sat around on couches and discussed all thought, a Bookstore without Borders, containing all religious texts, a number of various sized auditoriums and theaters with interchangeable backdrops to instantly become a sanctuary for anyone who rented the space, the internal portion of the mall, being a large fellowship hall with potluck for all.

But I still would like to explore...what dogma can you relinquish...what would a universal service look like. You can keep your individual thought and prayers to yourself. But what would a service that offends no one look like?