Does time exist? Can we travel it?

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Rouge47, Nov 30, 2005.

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1.Does time exist? 2.Can we travel it? (Note: Read first post before voting)

  1. Yes and Yes

    12 vote(s)
    41.4%
  2. Yes and No

    8 vote(s)
    27.6%
  3. No and Yes

    5 vote(s)
    17.2%
  4. No and No

    3 vote(s)
    10.3%
  5. Say who da whatty?

    1 vote(s)
    3.4%
  1. seattlegal

    seattlegal Mercur├Žn Buddhist

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    Zeno of Elea
    It kinda reminds me of the Zen koan about what makes a flag move.
     
  2. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    As Einstein and his contemporaries demonstrated and proved, time is an unalterable and non-separable feature of the space-time fabric that we are all imbedded in. So on one level it exists because it marks passage within the fabric. But on another level it does not exist and is relative because it is only a measurement device by which our brains are enabled to recognize change. So I voted no-yes.

    There is an excellent physics book that's out right now that clarifies this issue and many others including the only force that stumped Albert, gravity.
    It's titled, Warped Passages, by Lisa Randall. I've mentioned it here elsewhere before. Good stuff in plain language.

    flow....
     
  3. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Salt ? Pepper ? Cumin ?

    flow....:D
     
  4. AletheiaRivers

    AletheiaRivers New Member

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    Wow. I am the first to vote "No" and "No." What's up with that? :p
     
  5. earl

    earl ?

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    I think I need a little time to think on this:D earl
     
  6. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    It means that you are stuck forever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever,... (well you get the picture) in the same ole' boring places in the space-time fabric. Do yerself a favor and read some Jack Finney novels for enjoyment to see what Simon Morley can do. That might change your outlook.

    flow....:cool:
     
  7. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist In Galt We Trust

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    Change exists. Time is simply a measure of change.

    Can we travel in change? No, but we can change. Perhaps this can be called travel.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  8. AletheiaRivers

    AletheiaRivers New Member

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    YES! Good way to put it. :)
     
  9. cavalier

    cavalier New Member

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    is anyone else disappointed that nobody has voted, "say who da whatty"?
     
  10. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    "Contrary to popular belief, Einstein never claimed that it was impossible to go faster than light, it was assumed from his equations. He however has no objections to accepting that spacetime fabric can travel faster than light. It is hypothesized that at the creation of the universe, spacetime fabric travelled faster than light. Therefore, if we could bend spacetime, we could travel faster than light. Miguel Alcubierre, theorized, that it would be possible to "warp" spacetime by shrinking spacetime in front of you and expanding it behind you. Mitchell Pfenning worked out the math involved and discovered that you could only warp a small amount (1/100th the size of an atom) and the energy required is 10 billion times that of entire universe."

    But a more realistic (and energy efficient), way to travel in time would be to go into a Black hole. However, it would have to be one that is spinning (that is to say it would look like a life saver or doghnut shape with a hole in the middle. And the result would be that one could only travel into one's future as the past has already been determined. If however one tried to go into the past, it would be to an alternate reality not the traveler's own.

    v/r

    Q
     
  11. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Sending brain waves forward or backward would be much simpler and more energy efficient. Besides, our material bodies could not take the physical stress of doing things like jumping into black holes. The film Contact implies such things, even though the fiction it is based upon, Carl Sagan's, fills our senses with grand looking machinery, and improbable physics.

    flow....:)
     
  12. AletheiaRivers

    AletheiaRivers New Member

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    My favorite movie. :)
     
  13. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Not quite correct. True, the "carrier" (signal) may be able to go forward or backward in time, according to theories, but the media, or message would be gone. Of course this is based on current knowledge...but who knows?

    v/r

    Q
     
  14. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    To quote a favorite radio program from my childhood, " Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men ?...The Shadow knows."

    If I ever find a guy named LaMont Cranston, I'm running him for president.:D

    Oh...I forgot the issue at hand. Current theories aside, viable messages are possible if they flow from an undetermined future, eh ? Could be that's what Jesus' visit was all about, not to mention the cascade of stories regarding his visit that we all are still puzzling over. The same, of course, could be said of Muhammed, pbuh. And myriads of other "messengers" that we all know about, and probably some that we'll never know of because they were silenced somehow and their messages eliminated by "powers that be".

    flow....;)
     
  15. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    What were you saying?...;) not nice to be not nice.
     
  16. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Q

    If you took something the wrong way regarding my LaMont Cranston reference, it was not specified for you. I meant that as a joke concerning our realities in general.

    We are all composed of shades of light and darkness. And that's what's also involved in the receiving of "messages" from the beyond. I ignore most of them. That comes from lots of experience. But some of them won't leave me alone emotionally and then I must act on them. That's when and how I know G-d is talking to me,.

    An easy yoke with some difficult outcomes sometimes.

    But it is my life and I value it, much of the time.

    flow....:cool:
     
  17. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Yup. Agreed. Nope, no offense taken.

    v/r

    Q
     
  18. YO-ELEVEN-11

    YO-ELEVEN-11 Watcher

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    Time does exsist, but is highly "relative".

    Also traveling it is subjective to numerous variables.

    When the sun stopped for Joshua in the old testament during his battle did time stop then? Did the rest of the planet go on while they battled?

    Example: When you go to sleep, does time go on for everyone else and stop for you, and when you wake up you are put back in flow by being moved forward to get in step with everyone else.

    The reason I say this is because, some times, when I wake up, I feel as if my body is out of "sync" if you will and is being jolted forward. Has anyone else ever had this feeling of being pulled forward?
     
  19. flowperson

    flowperson Oannes

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    Research has shown that no definitive boundary exists between the states of sleep and wakefulness. The process is best described as an immersion into and emergence out of some altered state of being which allows us to recover from the stresses of daily exertions.

    In other words they lie on a spectrum or continuum of states of being for your brain. The experience of sleep and being awake can have different meanings for different people. Many experience out-of-body episodes on the boundary zone between sleep and awake. Maybe that's what you're experiencing to a degree. In my case I am aware that my senses snap into being on different timelines. For instance I am usually visually aware of my surroundings upon opening my eyes before it is possibile for my brain to register the fact that I can hear anything.

    Good question. Keep asking them.

    flow....:)
     
  20. YO-ELEVEN-11

    YO-ELEVEN-11 Watcher

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    Yes, that is pretty much how it feels, like a P.C. coming online. Sometimes hearing comes in and then the other senses are pulled in that direction.

    What about if the sun stops or the earth stops rotating. Would that be considered as having time stop?
     

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