Do Organisms With No Brain Have Conscious Awareness?

[Silverbackman]

An interesting point was brought up in the "Do viruses have souls?" thread. A user stated that he/she did not believe viruses had souls because they did not consciousness. I define soul as consciousness as well but this would contradict my original belief that all life has souls. But if a lot of life does not have awareness then they perhaps don't have souls. Most physiologists believe that conscious awareness (from life on Earth) comes from the organ brain. If this is true then only most animals have awareness and therefore very primitive animals, plants, fungi, protistas, bacteria, and viruses cannot have souls. Unless of course conscious awareness perhaps comes from the building blocks of life, which on Earth is DNA. But this does not make much sense because there is no proof for this. So perhaps only most species of animals have conscious awareness (and therefore a soul to me).

What do you think?

 

[Silverbackman]

 

[iBrian]

In a number of mechanisms, biological, chemical, and physical, there is a "threshold" point where an action cannot be expressed until that threshold is reached.

IMO, consciousness is one of these issues - the biological design of humanity crosses a threshold which allows this primitive expression of self conscious experience.

However, in the same context, I don't believe that negates the ability for other organisms to have either conscious experience nor limited self-awareness to some degree.

Pets do not generally convey the impression of being nothing better than fluffy biological robots.

2c.

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

I voted no but I would like to add that we can only judge sentience by our own experience of it, which seems like a very egotistical thing to do.

It is quite concievable that we might at some point be visited by some Alien life forms who are so much more advanced than us that they do not consider us to be sentient, just as we do not consider the viruses etc to be sentient.

Just a thought.

 

[wil]

I can't even respond to the fluffy pet robot comment....surely we aren't claiming on any level that animals don't have a conscious awareness and respond to life around them...Brian, have you no pets or do your truly dis them that much? me wonders what they think about you...

'these stupid hairless creatures....I can't believe they can't figure out when I bark at the door, I want to go out...how many times must a pee on the floor before they get it through their thick skull. I leave the food in the bowl till moring, does he not know if he feeds me at night I can't keep my weight down...silly question, of course he can't, I don't see why that doberman down the street thinks these humans can actually do anything for themselves...they probably no evidence they believe in G!d, they refuse to do the circling ritual before they lay down....'

hmmm....I ponder do organisms with a brain necesarrily have conscious awareness....I know sometimes I haven't.

The flower turns its head to the sun each day....as do thousands of bathers at the beach...now rotate...

The plant will lean toward the light to get in the light as much as possible, reminding me of a young actor or child needing attention...

They've shown yogurt bacteria communicating with each other, feeling responding to the plight of their counterparts over long distance...

Cut the roots of a pine tree and it produces many times more cones the next season, a survival mode kicks in and it creates more offspring...is that simply an unconscious response?

 

[taijasi]

Conscious awareness, or simply consciousness ... is not the same as self-consciousness. Although some might disagree, I would argue that even a domesticated cat or dog doesn't truly possess even the latter. They are developing it - but are as yet far, far removed from average humanity in terms of being able to regard the `I' as a distinct individual (and oneself).

Nevertheless, plants have genuine emotions - not the same emotions as humanity, but emotions nonetheless. They prefer to be treated just as you and I would. They do not particularly enjoy hate, anger, or other negativity. Likewise, selfish thoughts do not resonate with them ... but then we're speaking of a realm (thought) that is in itself altogether beyond the vegetable kingdom.

Even a mineral, is conscious. Oh? It's not? But it is alive. Oh? It's not? How do you know?

It comes down to how we define these words ... but I return to my original statement.

andrew

 

[iBrian]

I can't even respond to the fluffy pet robot comment....surely we aren't claiming on any level that animals don't have a conscious awareness and respond to life around them...Brian, have you no pets or do your truly dis them that much? me wonders what they think about you...

Read my comment again:

"Pets do not generally convey the impression of being nothing better than fluffy biological robots."

I agree - reducing all nature outside of humanity as automative is not a view I subscribe to.

 

[Quahom1]

Read my comment again:

"Pets do not generally convey the impression of being nothing better than fluffy biological robots."

I agree - reducing all nature outside of humanity as automative is not a view I subscribe to.

Indeed, since all "healthy" life forms attempt to survive when threatened, I submit there must be some kind of "higher function" which causes this. And something within the life form must contain this "order" to execute, in case of danger. So I opine that there is a psuedo "brain" of sorts somewhere within the makeup of the organism, even if we do not recognise it as such.

Animals (pets), definitely are aware, and I suspect self aware to a certain strong degree. They certainly are aware of us, our needs, and our dispositions, and react accordingly. They also appreciate when we tend to their needs, especially when they are sick, or dying...

Even ants will react to our behavior given enough time, even anticipate it and pro-act.

Nothing small about life, but the package it comes in, I should think.

v/r

Q

 

[Silverbackman]

Conscious awareness, or simply consciousness ... is not the same as self-consciousness. Although some might disagree, I would argue that even a domesticated cat or dog doesn't truly possess even the latter. They are developing it - but are as yet far, far removed from average humanity in terms of being able to regard the `I' as a distinct individual (and oneself).

Nevertheless, plants have genuine emotions - not the same emotions as humanity, but emotions nonetheless. They prefer to be treated just as you and I would. They do not particularly enjoy hate, anger, or other negativity. Likewise, selfish thoughts do not resonate with them ... but then we're speaking of a realm (thought) that is in itself altogether beyond the vegetable kingdom.

Even a mineral, is conscious. Oh? It's not? But it is alive. Oh? It's not? How do you know?

It comes down to how we define these words ... but I return to my original statement.

andrew

But do you actually believe that very primitive animals, plants, ect. have awareness, whether they realize anything about themselves or not (considering some humans may not even realize themselves ). If so where would it come from? Perhaps an unknown part of the cell? I'm not so sure about that.

BTW, anger, fear, ect. are all human inventions and they do come from the brain. There are actually specific areas in the brain that deal with emotions. Happiness for example is a product of the chemical serotonin I think. If we have massive amounts of this chemical pumped throughout our brain we will be happy even in the worst of situations. This is seen with the drug ecstasy. Ecstasy will make you so happy to the point of death. People have been recorded to dance until they drop by taking the drug but I imagine they were happy when they died (even though if they danced as hard as they did without the drug they would be in so much pain ).