Interfaith Shemot

Discussion in 'Interfaith Parsha Project' started by Bandit, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    Interfaith Shemot

    http://www.chabad.org/parshah/TorahReading.asp?AID=15559&p=1

    i will start this one too since the interfaith parsha board has become my favorite board at CR:)

    i am guessing shemot means exodus & this week covers chapters 1:1-6:1.

    or something like that.


    it starts out with a new king arising in egypt & the israelites have multiplied so much that this king fears they will take them all over & egypt will become slaves to them (but i dont think this is what the israelites were thinking)
    it gives us the tribes of Israel & mentions there were 70 (there is that 70 again POH:) ) 70 souls belonging to Jacob & Joseph that started this off. so we have to watch & see who goes to where!


    so the new big headed King goes out & starts taxing them & giving out extra labor & making them slaves by giving them extra hard duties that would probably kill any of us today. i tend to believe it was a new king & the old one had died because 1:8 shows this king did not know about Joseph.
    this new big fat king tells the midwives that if a boy is born to kill the boys & if it is a girl they can keep it. (typical of a big fat king) but the midwives loved their God & decided not to do what the mean nasty king tells them to do.

    (not as good as rashi, but there you have a nutshell to start with):)

    i found this note interesting because it is something i have depicted many times in the scriptures & it was good to see it from Rashi (turning past into future & future into past)


     
  2. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    mahalo nui bandit - I'm copying my initial posting on Shemot so that it is part of the thread ....


    I was reading the introduction to Exodus in my copy by Robert Alter and he mentions that the narative is organized around three defined spaces: Egypt, the place of bondage; the wilderness, a liminal space where freedom will be realized and new obligations incured, where a tense struggle between leader and people will play out as part of the initiatory experience of nationhood; and the promised destination of the Exodus from Egypt, the land that remains beyond the horizon of this book. Egypt is associated with water .... the wilderness is associated with a dry parched land, and the new Israelite nation will the be land flowing with milk and honey (the utopian space that will be beyond reach for fourty years)

    I was also reading the Zohar on Exodus .... which has a piece on Moses and the Blazing Bush (Exodus 3:1-2) "Rabbi Judah said "Moses was not like other prophets. We have learned: One who comes close to fire is burned. Yet Moses came close to fire and was not burned .... Rabbi Abba said "We should explore the nature of Moses in the light of wisdom. What is it written: 'She named him Moses, saying "It means: I drew him out of the water" (Exodus 2:10). One who has been drawn out of water has no fear of fire. And it has been taught in the name of Rabbi Judah: 'From the plae Moses was hewn, no other human was hewn.' "Moses was arrayed in all ten spheres" .... 'The Angel of YHVH appeared to him in a flame of fire .... he gazed: the bush is blazing in fire' showing that Israel is enslaved, but 'the bush is not consumed"...

    I've read some other things on symbols in the burning bush and I'll post them, but I really like the concept above "showing that Israel is enslaved, but the bush is not consumed" .... the burning is figurative and the people are not to die .... it is only a temporary stage while progressing or ascending to the promised land, the land of milk and honey (and you already know my thoughts on this since I've posted them several times regarding the brain) ....

    here is a quote from a deeper insight into the parsha by Rabbi Noson Weisz, Aish HaTorah, Jeruslem which I also like "There are aspects of the Exodus story that are difficult to comprehend at first glance. God, who is omnipotent by definition, wants to take the Jewish people out of Egypt. So why doesn't He simply just do it? Why does He instruct Moses to negotiate with Pharaoh, why does He bother with the ten plagues, why does He split the sea? Why doesn't He simply put it into Pharaoh's mind to let the Jews go? If He could harden Pharoah's heart against letting them go, as He subsequently did, He could certainly soften his heart and obtain their voluntary release. These questions indicate that the way to relate to the Exodus miracles is not to view them as mechanisms required to engineer the physical the release of the Jewish people - a simple matter for God to arrange without much fuss? but to perceive them as acts of revelation that were sent to teach the world about God."

    "acts of revelation" is, to my mind, exactly what this is all about .... the OT not only tells us the story of these "acts of revelation" but also tells us in symbols how to reach that place of visions and revelations so that each of us becomes whole again .... but we must cross over from the material world of water, enter the desert where we are required to sacrafice and struggle and then find out way to the land of "milk and honey" or the promised land ...

    Rabbi Weiz also suggests that when Moses said to God "Behold, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name,' what shall I say to them?" (Exodus 3:13) (it is obvious that the Jewish people already know the name(s) of God) but what this really means is "Under which of Your Divine Names are You sending me on my mission to redeem the Jewish people?" (since each of the Divine Names stands for one of His character traits and Moses is asking what trait is He assigning to him, Moses)...

    so Bandit I'm wondering how the chosen Divine Name is also associated with the tabernacle in the wilderness .... it seems important to study the Divine Name used by Moses to answer the question "What is His name" because it is the essence of this story (at least I think so) .... aloha nui, poh
     
  3. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    i think there is much revelation in all this as well. you always see one thing coming out of the other. in similiar way joseph went into egypt, here we see moses getting stuck in egypt. it has aways been odd to me that God would deliver them & lead them around in circles for 40 years in the dessert

    that is something neat. in one place we have God as a consuming fire & in another we see how we are purged with fire & made perfect like gold.

    well God did do it, but not always on our terms or right when when expect Him to. i think God does things in his way & in his time. i have to totally agree there with this being acts of revelation. i also see parallels there with these plagues & those plagues in the book of Revelations. i think there is a path for us & when we get on it that is when God begins to work & show us His greatness.

    you know there is one passage (cant recall right now) where it says Moses was 'like' God.

    huh. not sure how it is associated with the tabernacle. i have never thought of it having a name but i know it is associated with God. I AM? i also dont think the name of God was revealed in the OT, except only in parts as in titles, pronouns, verbs etc. & like you say, they show His divine traits & character i suppose i could have named my son I AM. i think i came up with about 600 names & titles for God from the bible. but in my own belief it seems to me God kept his name hidden in the OT. at least hidden in its fullness. i see YAH/JAH sometimes too.
    we could study all those names some day if you want to.
     
  4. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    this is the second part of the parsha & shows how moses got his name.


    this is interesting from Rashi. the egyptians were counting the days of the pregnancy & it appears moses came early?
    i also noticed the difference between egyptian women & hebrew women & for some reason the hebrew was compared to that of a lioness
    i dont get that part yet.:)


    oh boy! the big fat king was so mad at the women for not killing the boys he ordered them to throw all the baby boys into the nile:rolleyes:



    it was Pharoas daughter going down to take a bath who finds Moses floating in a basket:D

    She named him Moses, and she said, "For I drew him from the water."

    is that ever a twist or what.
     
  5. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    ok. so far moses has grown up (ch 3&4) has killed a man, he is talking with God in the burning bush & getting instructions on how to get the people free from egypt.

    i also see a great significance there with this 'angel of the Lord' & this angel being God himself, or the angle of the Lord being messenger for God- i see all that as the same thing. Angel-God-Messenger- is all the same to me.

    i see two main reasons why moses did not want this job, he did not speak well & he did not want to be appointed higher than his brother Aron. oh! there are so many things there in moses that made him the right man for the job.
    then we see the staff becoming a serpant & his hand withers white with leprosy & both cases it returns to what it is supposed to be...so IMO all this is going on to get moses to do what he is supposed to do.

    so old Moses thinks they will not listen to him in Egypt AND, well, He is right. but that is ok, because God has everything under control- smooth sailing- made in the shade with lemonade & no one is going to stop God from revealing himself through Moses.:)

    p.s. i dont understand what that means when it says for moses to pick up water from the nile & it turns to blood as it drops on the land & it stays blood.
    anywho, that is up to the 5th portion.
     
  6. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    well I think we are suppose to be into Exodus 12:1-2 now where G!d issues his first commandment to the Jewish people as a whole and what I understand to be the establishment of the lunar month as the basis of the Jewish calendar .... so this might be a good time to discuss calendars and their importance .... why a lunar calendar as opposed to a solar calendar, etc. Hawaiians use both a lunar and solar calendar, but most community life (at least in the old days) was around the lunar calendar. So I guess one question is why are the Jewish people commanded to switch to a lunar calendar immediately prior to their emancipation from bondage .... I'm in the process of reading a parsha on this with an interesting perspective .... we are in the parsha of 'Bo (what does 'Bo mean?) aloha nui, poh
     
  7. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    hmmm. i never thought of that until now. i am reading the 12th chapter & now i see what you are saying. it kind of marks the season. we hit on this briefly in a couple of other threads but cant remember where they are. i know i started one way back in Judasim on the differences in calendars.

    it seems like the time for beginning festivals & the laws.
    i have always looked at the calendar the same way you are saying in Hawaii, both lunar & solar.

    our church still has communion the first week of october. i never asked them before why, just kind of felt it was because of this calendar thing that started in exodus.

    here is something on jewish years & months.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/calendar.html

    maybe because God wanted it to be different from egypt? not sure.
     
  8. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    rashi mentioned something about God speaking to Moses about this lunar calendar & he spoke to him outside of egypt, or outside of the city maybe because there were too many idols in egypt.


    i just found that other thread Poh. LOL
    we did talk about this briefly before. you were tasting wine. not sure what i was doing but i remember now.
     
  9. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    that's so funny bandit .... I didn't drink any wine or liquor for most of my life and then after I turned 60 I decided life was too short and I should drink more wine (for some crazy reason) .... so my 'gregorian' new year resolution was to drink more wine, sing more songs, and dance with abandon .... I think that I have such a passion for life these days that I put it into everything, including these studies .... yesterday was Chinese New Year and lots of fireworks have been going off at different restaurants in the area (a really neat thing to watch as hundreds of fire crackers are tied to poles) ....

    the native hawaiian calendar also starts the lunar month when the "slender" or "twisted" silver thread (hilo) first shows up .... this is the night that fish "hide" in the reef areas, and deep sea fishing is good .... every night of the lunar month has its own name and it is all related to fishing, planting, and things like that .... the body is also very attune to the phases of the moon, through the pineal gland (we have that old pineal gland again) and it is interesting to note that when women work together in the fields (like the taro patches) at night (when they are acclimated to natural light and not artificial light) they will also syncronize their monthly periods .... bet you didn't know that .... also the birth of child (9 months) is based on lunar months and not solar months .... there are a lot of very positive reasons to follow a lunar calendar and I read a parsha discussion based on a philosophical and kabbalistic perspective, but I still wasn't completely satisfied with the explantion for this commandment .... the parsha that I read made a lot of reference to the slaughter of sheep or lamb and its role at passover including the zodiac references .... it contrasted this to the worship of sheep by the egyptians .... what bothers me is that I really think the lamb is a symbol of deeper meaning to both and the meaning has been missed .... I don't really think the egyptians 'worshipped' sheep , but this may have manifested after the original meaning was perhaps lost .... maybe even the slaughter of the lamb has a deeper original meaning that many have lost today .... these are not easy things for me to express because I'm always concerned that I will offend someone and I never want to do that .... so I keep going back to the brain ....

    the caudate nucleus (the structure that covers the chamber where the pineal gland is located) looks just like the horns of a ram and I really think that the rams's that guard the gateways to the pyramid are symbolic and not gods to be actually worshipped .... the pyramid itself is a wonderful structure of the brain with the king and queen's chambers and the stairwell in between .... plus, I read once that the high priest or priestess when initiated had to pass through seven small pyramids that lined the nile before initiation into the larger great pyramid .... all symbols, the nile as the spine and the seven energy centers .... but I'm getting off track here .... the lunar calender, the parsha 'bo and the meanings involved .... sheep, rams,lambs ....what do they really mean?

    I will share my interpretation of a lunar versus a solar calendar .... the right hemisphere of the brain (the spiritual side, the feminine, peace) is associated with the moon and the left hemisphere of the brain (the material side, the masculine, the warrior) is associated with the sun .... I think that
    G!d introduced a new way of measuring time to emancipate the Jewish people because they were moving from the material world toward the spiritual world and the promised land .... it is like a shift in consciousness .... probably a little far out there this time, but it feels comfortable .... aloha nui, poh
     
  10. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    bandit or dauer - how do we change the title for each new parsha .... we now have several threads under the title of 'interfaith shemot' ....


    back to the sacrificial lamb .... I read in one parsha that the sacrifice of the lamb at passover is crucial to the transition process because the zodiacal sign of the lamb is at its most powerful in the month of nissan (first month of the jewish year) and by sacrificing the passover lamb the egyptian god is symbolically subdued when it is at the peak of its strength .... this would make sense related to the time and situation .... also the sacrifice of the first born, like the lamb, is a symbol of the power of natural renewal and increase since the first born child is the symbol of human renewal and increase .... and there is another interpretation of the symbols that is also related to that old brain of ours ....

    passover is the passing over from winter to spring and in order for this to occur the 'sun' must enter the constellation of the lamb/ram aries .... the lamb is roasted by the sun .... if the lamb aires symbolized the pineal gland of the brain , you will passover from the cold winter of your life into the springtie where all things become new .... meditation brings you out of the winter of your soul into the calm warmth of springtime .... www.hiddenmeanings.com

    in hawaii this period is the change in the year when we transition from the time of 'po' (the time of darkness when everything is underground) into the time of 'ao' (light, when things are renewed) .... times of dark and light have many different meanings in the hawaiian language .... but the primary words are 'po' and 'ao' .... in the hawaiian chant the 'kumulipo' (the chant of creation) the time of 'po' exists in the first seven 'wa' (periods of time) before the break of 'ao' day or light .... one must first reach the mountaintop in the seventh 'wa' before the dawning of light and day .... in meditation this means that one has moved the spiralling energy up the spinal column into the seventh energy center of the body and bridged the underworld of papa (earth mother) and the upper world of wakea (sky father) and the marriage is complete .... or in other words the head and the body are reconnected spiritually .... (the severed head is restored) ....

    many times I do not feel that I am able to articulate this very clearly .... I see it clearly, but the words cannot express it well .... the connection in the parsha of the discussion about the first born, the time of renewal, the sacrafice of the lamb are all connected with the movement of energy through the human body .... to reach that place of revelations and visions ...

    . the word for lamb in hebrew is 'b'chor' which is comprised of the identical letters as the word 'brocho' meaning blessing (according to the parsha that I was reading) and the word is composed entirely of seconds; the letter 'bet' is the second letter of the alphabet and is also the second number of units, the number 2; the letter 'chaf' is the second unit of the tens, the number 20, and the letter 'reish' is the second unit of the hundreds, with a value of 200 (I don't get the value of letters at all, but I'm reading from the parsha) and the word 'b'chor' is a great way to convey the idea of 'multiplication' and 'future'.
    (oh the parsha is by Rabbi Noson Weisz, Aish HaTorah, Jerusalem)

    aloha nui, poh
     
  11. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    i bet there was a lot of superstition in those days with the calendar, moon & all that animal sacrficing. i think they chased a goat off of a mountain to get rid of sins & things like that. i find all that stuff gross & barbaric.

    i was reading somewhere where egyptians worshipped the Nile. that is just the way people thought back then & it is weird to me.
    i want to know why israel was not allowed to eat leavened bread for seven days?
    i also noticed a lot of the gold & silver they took with them wqs given to them by the egyptians. "Go! We are all dead." ha ha ha... that is how bad they wanted israel out of there!! :D

    i see what you are saying about the shift in the way they thought. I dont see that is too far fetched. i also know all these things are connected...the moon & the tides & the way people think at different times of the year.

    there is like this real big thing going on there with israel with 7 days do this & 7 days do that...so there is like this yearly & daily ritual being established in there minds.

    “See the lovingkindness that He bestowed upon you, that He took you out in a month in which it is suitable to go out, when there is neither heat nor cold nor rain,” and so it says: “He takes the prisoners out at the most opportune time

    in blue is from Rashi, but i relate to that because i have moved a lot & know it is best to move in the spring or early summer because it allows more opportunity without obstacles of harsh weather.

    so they have this statute at an appointed time & i am thinking that is one reason God was telling moses to use the moon in observation, because the sun is too consistant. though the angle of the sun changes during the year, i dont think they could keep track of it as well as using the moon. "between your eyes" is probably talking about the brain.

    there is a fish in the pacific that come up & lays eggs on the sand, with a certain tide & at a specific time of year & they do this at night. (i forget what they are called), but i remember seeing them do this in Santa Monica Bay & flop around on the sand, laying eggs & wait for the next wave.
     
  12. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    there is a lot of neat stuff at that hidden meanings site. it is pretty good because it relates back to scriptures. have added that one to visit again & again.

    POH, if you just want to put up the new title of this weeks parsha, just start it off with 'new topic'. but like this one under Interfaith BO, we are already into it, so maybe keep it under this one for now & watch for the next one to start. i still have not figured out how that works yet, because it seems like Bo is a sub parsha under Shemot.?.
     
  13. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    aloha e bandit .... I was thinking that it might be interesting to include in the parsha discussions a reference to the jewish month that we are in because it appears that each month is also an important part of understanding where we are at in the parsha's (not sure, but it looks like it) .... for example I think this is the month of Shvat .... the fifth month of the hebrew year .... and the sign is the bucket which corresponds to the sign of aquarius .... I was reading an article and the first of Shvat is the day that moses began to elucidate the torah, moses is likened to a living bucket pouring forth wisdom .... on the 15th of Shvat (Tu B'Shvat) is the new year of the trees .... it is not a holiday, but it is observed by jut eating fruit .... if possible the fruits should include the seven species for which the land of israel is praised, but all fruits (including dry fruits) to reach a total of 15 fruits in all .... there is also a kabbalist "seder" which explores the inner meaning of this day and it is related to the concept of "a man is as a tree of the field" .... we could even do the title as the month and keep all the parsha's for that particular month in that thread .... what do you think? that way we would not have to keep smaller threads or parsha's in seperate sections .... dauer, if you are around .... what do you think would this be acceptable? aloha nui, poh
     
  14. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    what do i think?:) i think, we think too much alike. over the past few weeks, i have been having the same thought on bringing in the months & events into discussion as we go throough these parshas. just not sure how to do it the right way.
    i have even been telling myself to join a jewish temple for a couple of years & go on saturday just to understand these things better.

    it is on a saturday or sunday coming up-not this one but next saturday (i think so) i may just look around for a place to visit & do new year of the trees since it is open to everyone & i love trees.

    new year of the trees- that is on my moms birthday this year, so she could celebrate both.
    lets see what dauer says & maybe he will have good idea to bring that into play for us. i am all up for learning as much as i can with this & making comparisons as well.
     
  15. dauer

    dauer Active Member

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    Hi all.

    One of the reasons I would see not to bring in the holidays, is that they don't necessarily go with the yearly readings. The holidays themselves tend to have their own special Torah readings. And by focusing more on the holidays, we would be moving the focus away from interfaith and more towards Judaism. My only intention in using the parshiot as a model was to have a working model. But, if there is an interest in looking at the Jewish holidays as they come up, and the cycle of the Jewish year, why not do this on the Jewish board?

    Oh, and Bandit, to answer something else, bo isn't sub to shemot. Shemot is simply the name of a book and a parsha. The names of the Jewish books and parshiot are taken from one of the first words in the text, so the first parsha in shemot is shemot.

    I think since we have an interfaith "shemot" maybe we should just create threads by book, up until a point that there might be demand for more threads.



    Dauer
     
  16. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    I see your point dauer that using the months or holidays as a basis for the groupings would give more focus to judiasm instead of the 'interfaith' aspects of the parhsa .... truthfully I think what is happening is that bandit and I are both moving more toward judiasm through the parsha and have a tendency to want to study everything at one time .... every day new doors open and they are very welcoming ....


    thank you for the explanation of how the parshas are named .... now I can use my jps copy and check out the hebrew letters for "Bo'" and then also look for the first hebrew word that matches the letters ....

    the parsha of Bo' is a fascinating one because of the last three plagues .... and the start of the parsha where G!d hardens the heart of pharoah .... in one sense a lesson is that when any of us harden our hearts to another, only harm will return .... it is that which brings the darkness into our lives and we must all be set free to enjoy the light in our dwellings ....

    although the slaying of the lamb in the story itself is certainly a reflection of what it means to cast out idols (the cooking of the whole lamb and the rush to eat it as a slap in the face of pharoah) I also see the inner connection to the concept of the roasting of the lamb (aires) when the sun moves into that constellation .... perhaps the whole meaning is that when we look outside of ourselves for our savior we will not find him, so we must not worship idols because that is not where we will meet G!d face to face .... we must leave the land of materialism, pull up our roots, and move toward the wilderness to locate the promised land ....

    and yes bandit, the reference to "between thine eyes" is also in my view related to the brain .... the 'tefillin' which is attached to the forehead during prayer (except on the sabbath and on festivals) contains tiny parchments inscribed with texts from the torah .... these texts are exodus 13:1-10; 13:11-16; and deuteronomy 6:4-9; 11:13-21 .... the theme of 'memory' recurs in these texts .... "you will wear the tefillin like a sign upon thy hand and a memorial between thine eyes" .... Rabbi Nahman of Bratslav said" there is only memory in the world which is to come" or "remember your future" .... so this symbol is really important and I also believe is connected to the role of the pineal gland .... the third eye which can open the doors to all ancient wisdom and can also see into the future .... for all of us, the future or the promise is the land of milk and honey, a new time, a new place, peace .... aloha nui, poh
     
  17. Bandit

    Bandit New Member

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    we can just touch on the special days as we go along within the parshas. that is fine by me. i will be getting back to this & the tabernacle on monday. i need to clear my head just a little bit, then have a fresh look at things.

    have a nice weekend POH & Dauer.:)

    we are in total agreement here. nice parallel.
     

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