The established kingdom

mee

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Gods kingdom has been born , (revelation 12;5-6) it was born in 1914 in the heavens ,and it is now established and ready to take over manmade goverments...Daniel 244... but before manmade goverments are crushed for ever, the Goodnews about the heavenly goverment will have to be made known, so that people can put them selves on the side of the heavenly goverment and welcome its king Jesus christ

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14 not the end of the planet , but the end of manmade goverments

(Mark 13:10) Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first

(Revelation 14:6) And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people

After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb revelation 7;9-10

(Acts 4:12) Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved............. yes Jesus is the lamb and is the king of the heavenly kingdom goverment , and i am waving my palm branch in my hand to welcome this king

(Matthew 6:10) Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth..... at the command from his father Jehovah .Jesus will go in to action, so then, who is willing to recognize Jesus as king of the kingdom ? i know i do

Do not put YOUR trust in nobles

Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs

His spirit goes out,(or his breath) he goes back to his ground

In that day his thoughts do perish ( psalm 146;3-4) but Jesus christ will never die he will rule forever as Isaiah 9;6-7 tells us

For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.......... yes the kingdom is now established , Good news indeed for those who want to recognize it Thrilling .... thrilling ............ thrilling times we are living in dont you think?

 
I do find the 1914 date curious. I remember some JW's explaining how it was arrived at.

However, reading your post, it seems like there's an emphasis on it only being an "Heavenly" kingdom as being established, rather than an earthly one.

Can you please explain the 1914 date as refering only to a Heavenly event, rather than earthly?
 
I said:
I do find the 1914 date curious. I remember some JW's explaining how it was arrived at.

However, reading your post, it seems like there's an emphasis on it only being an "Heavenly" kingdom as being established, rather than an earthly one.

Can you please explain the 1914 date as refering only to a Heavenly event, rather than earthly?

Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth."—Matthew 6:10. a goverment will only rule in the right way if there are no opposers around , that is why the heavens were cleared first of the opposers

So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him revelation 12;9 after 1914 the original serpent (satan the devil) is not allowed back in the heavens, it has been cleaned of all opposers that is why there is great opposition to the established heavenly kingdom , satan does not want anyone to be on Gods side, he wants the glory for himself , he is doing his level best to distract people from the heavenly kingdom goverment , thats why since 1914 satans influence on the earth has increased .its all happening

(Revelation 12:13) Now when the dragon saw that it was hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman that gave birth to the male child

The appointed time for the nations to rule without interruption by God came to an end in 1914. (Luke 21:24) Then, right on time, the woman bears her child:.............. those who kept awake to bible chronology and bible prophecy really have been enlightened, but most people are in the dark , because they dont want to know and refuse to accept Jesus kingship



 
flipping channels happenned to overhear...'this generation will not die' so I flipped back...to hear that it is now definitive...the 6 day war was the return of Jerusalem to the Jews...and the end is near...

Paul and the followers were sure at that time...

Century after century the signs have shown, now is the time...

And then the next century we always have the reasons why 'they' were mistaken...but now we know...

In 2500 and 5500 and.... the end will still be near...

almost seems like a math puzzle...one you can never prove.
 
wil said:
flipping channels happenned to overhear...'this generation will not die' so I flipped back...to hear that it is now definitive...the 6 day war was the return of Jerusalem to the Jews...and the end is near...

Paul and the followers were sure at that time...

Century after century the signs have shown, now is the time...

And then the next century we always have the reasons why 'they' were mistaken...but now we know...

In 2500 and 5500 and.... the end will still be near...

almost seems like a math puzzle...one you can never prove.

Also heard on a "Christian" radio station, wherein the preacher exclaimed that the end will commence in the year 2011 AD. I must admit I was surprised to hear this on a Washington DC radio station that prides itself on the "truth".

However, to their credit, the radio station announced that expressions of a particular show or another do not necessarrily reflect the values, views and opinions of said radio station (how's that for open mindedness and freedom of speech?) ;)

There is an old song with timeless conotations to it. In the year "2525"...

For six million or so followers, "I told you so might pass from their lips". But for the rest of us, and in accordance with scripture, it appears we will be surprised at the day and the hour and the moment. Some will be ready, and some will not.

my thoughts

v/r

Q
 
mee said:

The appointed time for the nations to rule without interruption by God came to an end in 1914. (Luke 21:24)




eh?
i could really roll some dice on this one. i believe:D ... it was 1915, not 1914.
 
Quahom1 said:
Also heard on a "Christian" radio station, wherein the preacher exclaimed that the end will commence in the year 2011 AD. I must admit I was surprised to hear this on a Washington DC radio station that prides itself on the "truth".

However, to their credit, the radio station announced that expressions of a particular show or another do not necessarrily reflect the values, views and opinions of said radio station (how's that for open mindedness and freedom of speech?) ;)

There is an old song with timeless conotations to it. In the year "2525"...

For six million or so followers, "I told you so might pass from their lips". But for the rest of us, and in accordance with scripture, it appears we will be surprised at the day and the hour and the moment. Some will be ready, and some will not.

my thoughts

v/r

Q
yes even those who have insight have to keep awake , because noone knows the day or hour,even Jesus himself does not know the day or hour when Jehovah steps into the affairs of humans and gets rid of the opposers............stand still and see the salvation of Jehovah , Gods people do not need to fight , it will be Gods war . Almighty God can take on the whole world, no big deal for him . humans make out many plans but when that day comes they will mean nothing. so i am in my place of concealment
During the upcoming great tribulation, culminating in Armageddon, Christ will war against all evil. But there will be no need for his followers to fight, the battle belongs to Jehovah and he gives victory.

As world events unfold in fulfillment of Bible prophecies, we will gradually get an ever clearer picture, but one thing i know for sure is that its all to do with oppostion to Gods king, who is now king in the heavens

(Psalm 37:34) Hope in Jehovah and keep his way, And he will exalt you to take possession of the earth. When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see [it]

 
I said:
I do find the 1914 date curious. I remember some JW's explaining how it was arrived at.

However, reading your post, it seems like there's an emphasis on it only being an "Heavenly" kingdom as being established, rather than an earthly one.

Can you please explain the 1914 date as refering only to a Heavenly event, rather than earthly?

For his loyalty to God even to death, Jesus was rewarded. God resurrected him to heaven and gave him the right to be King of the heavenly Kingdom. (Acts 2:32-36) As the King of the Kingdom, Christ Jesus will have the assignment from God to lead myriads of powerful spirit creatures in removing human rule from the earth and ridding our globe of all wickedness. (Proverbs 2:21, 22; 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9; Revelation 19:11-21; 20:1-3) Then God’s heavenly Kingdom under Christ will be the new ruling authority, the only government over the entire earth.—Revelation 11:15

Of paramount importance in the Bible is its theme: the vindication of God’s sovereignty (his right to rule) by means of his heavenly Kingdom. Jesus made that the focal point of his ministry. Jesus commenced preaching and saying: ‘Repent, you people, for the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near. (Matthew 4:17)

 
Quahom1 said:
... I must admit I was surprised to hear this on a Washington DC radio station that prides itself on the "truth".

However, to their credit, the radio station announced that expressions of a particular show or another do not necessarrily reflect the values, views and opinions of said radio station (how's that for open mindedness and freedom of speech?) ;) ... Q
Simply means they are willing to exchange their airwaves for money...even if they don't agree with the the content. The almighty dollar does make the world go round, and pay the electric bill.
 
I said:
I do find the 1914 date curious. I remember some JW's explaining how it was arrived at.

However, reading your post, it seems like there's an emphasis on it only being an "Heavenly" kingdom as being established, rather than an earthly one.

Can you please explain the 1914 date as refering only to a Heavenly event, rather than earthly?

After his resurrection back to heavenly glory, Jesus had to wait until the period of seven times of Gentile rule ended before being enthroned as the Messianic King over mankind.—Hebrews 10:12, 13

the Gentile Times, which started in October 607 B.C.E., ended 2,520 years later in October 1914

In October 1914, Jehovah God set his beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, on the throne in the heavenly Kingdom. At last, the Revelation vision of the Christian apostle John started to become a reality, and the announcement could be made: "The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord [Jehovah] and of his Christ, and he [Jehovah] will rule as king forever and ever." (Revelation 1:10; 4:1; 11:15) What glorious news this is , it is all happening and right on time

Be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time."—Revelation 12:1-12 satan knows that his time is about up



 
"Teacher," they asked, "when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?"



8He replied: "Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am he,' and, 'The time is near.' Do not follow them. 9When you hear of wars and revolutions, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away."

10Then he said to them: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

12"But before all this, they will lay hands on you and persecute you. They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13This will result in your being witnesses to them. 14But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17All men will hate you because of me. 18But not a hair of your head will perish. 19By standing firm you will gain life.

20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

I found nothing about 1914, nor any specific date, and I took the entire thought into context. The only thing I got out of this, is that it will come to pass, and that we are to remain calm vigilant and aware, while we continue living and doing what we know to be right.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
I found nothing about 1914, nor any specific date, and I took the entire thought into context. The only thing I got out of this, is that it will come to pass, and that we are to remain calm vigilant and aware, while we continue living and doing what we know to be right.

v/r

Q
yes the signs are all happening , as Jesus said they would , we all know that there was a litral fullfillment in 70C.E. but today the major fullfillment has been happening since 1914, in matthew 24 ;3-8
While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence(Greek pa.rou.si as)​


and of the conclusion of the system of things?





And in answer Jesus said to them: "Look out that nobody misleads YOU; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. YOU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet.








For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress............... yes the signs that Jesus is in kingdom power and his presence in power is there, are all happening since 1914 , the first world war in 1914 was the great war , where whole nations were involved which then had a knock on effect with food shortages ,this was the beginning of all the distress that we see on a world wide basis, now the signs are all here, 1914 was the start of the last days

 
mee said:
For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress............... yes the signs that Jesus is in kingdom power and his presence in power is there, are all happening since 1914 , the first world war in 1914 was the great war , where whole nations were involved which then had a knock on effect with food shortages ,this was the beginning of all the distress that we see on a world wide basis, now the signs are all here, 1914 was the start of the last days


Well, 1914 began the World War, also known as "The war to end all wars", however what lead up to this war began much farther back in time, and is for all purposes, what Jesus states would be the beginning of birth pangs as described by Matthew:

"Western Europe experienced a general cooling of the climate between the years 1150 and 1460 and a very cold climate between 1560 and 1850 that brought dire consequences to its peoples. The colder weather impacted agriculture, health, economics, social strife, emigration, and even art and literature. Increased glaciation and storms also had a devastating affect on those that lived near glaciers and the sea. This was called the "Little Ice Age", and the consequences of this cooling period were vast, long reaching and still affecting the world."

For example,


"The cooler climate during the little ice age had a huge impact on the health of Europeans, with dearth and famine killing millions.

Cool, wet summers led to outbreaks of an illness called St. Anthony's Fire. Whole villages would suffer convulsions, hallucinations, gangrenous rotting of the extremities, and even death. Grain, if stored in cool, damp conditions, may develop a fungus known as ergot blight and also may ferment just enough to produce a drug similar to LSD.



"Malnutrition led to a weakened immunity to a variety of illnesses. In England, malnutrition aggravated an influenza epidemic of 1557-8 in which whole families died. In fact, during most of the 1550's deaths outnumbered births. The Black Death (Bubonic Plague) was hastened by malnutrition all over Europe.

"One might not expect a typically tropical disease such as malaria to be found during the LIA, but it was an important cause of illness and death in several parts of England. The English word for malaria was ague, a term that remained in common usage until the nineteenth century.

"Conditions during the LIA led to many cases of social unrest. The winter of 1709 killed many people in France. Conditions were so bad, a priest in Angers, in west-central France, wrote: "The cold began on January 6, 1709, and lasted in all its rigor until the twenty-fourth. The crops that had been sewn were all completely destroyed.... Most of the hens had died of cold, as had the beasts in the stables. When any poultry did survive the cold, their combs were seen to freeze and fall off. Many birds, ducks, partidges, woodcock, and blackbirds died and were found on the roads and on the thick ice and frequent snow. Oaks, ashes, and other valley trees split with cold. Two thirds of the vines died.... No grape harvest was gathered at all in Anjou.... I myself did not get enough wine from my vineyard to fill a nutshell." In March the poor rioted in several cities to keep the merchants from selling what little wheat they had left.



"The winter of 1739-40 was also a bad one. After that there was no spring and only a damp, cool summer which spoiled the wheat harvest. The poor rebelled and the governor of Liège told the rich to "fire into the middle of them. That's the only way to disperse this riffraff, who want nothing but bread and loot."



"The occurrence of cattle raids on the Lowlanders by Highlanders who were stressed by the deteriorating climate. In 1436, King James I of Scotland was murdered while hunting on the edge of the Highland region near Perth. The clan warfare grew so bad that it was decided that no place north of Edinburgh Castle was safe for the king so Edinburgh became the capital of the country.



"In England, the effect of starvation and the poor condition of the country encouraged men to enlist during the War of the Roses (1455-1485.) As tillable land was converted to other uses such as sheep rearing, the landlords who organized the conversions became the focus of many hostilities.



"One group in particular suffered from the poor conditions - people thought to be witches. Weather-making was thought to be among the traditional abilities of witches and during the late fourteenth and fifteenth centuries many saw a great witch conspiracy. Extensive witch hunts took place during the most severe years of the LIA, as people looked for scapegoats to blame for their suffering.

"One of history's most notorious quotes might have been due in part to a rare extremely warm period during the LIA. In northern France in 1788, after an unusually bad winter, May, June, and July were excessively hot, which caused the grain to shrivel. On July 13, just at harvest time, a severe hailstorm (which typically occurs when there is very cold air aloft) destroyed what little crops were left. From that bad harvest of 1788 came the bread riots of 1789 which led to Marie Antoinette's alleged remark "Let them eat cake," and the storming of the Bastille.

"This lead to ultimately the Napoleonic Wars, and after that the alliance of the Central Powers (Germany/Austria-Hungary/The Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria), who decided their Hegemony was the way the world was going to run."

The rest, is as we say, history.

So you see, 1914 is not the beginning, but rather the culmination of many events, natural and man made that began over 700 years before. And these events over almost 3/4s of a millenia are in fact described by Jesus as having to come to pass.

v/r

Q
 
date setting is a sign of a false prophet, especially when one calls themself a prophet and has set other dates and end times which have all failed.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
date setting is a sign of a false prophet, especially when one calls themself a prophet and has set other dates and end times which have all failed.

My point was not to set a date. It was to show that for all practical purposes, the beginning of the "end" could have started back in 1150 AD, which is when the weather changed dramatically, crops failed regularly, pestulance and blight, plagues and sickness, wars and rumors of wars occured regularly, up to current times. In fact, some "experts" speculate that had not man stepped into the industrial age circa 1850 (with all the CO2 being kicked out into the atmosphere), we'd still be suffering from the Little Ice age.

Prior to 1150 AD, the weather was rather mild and stable, and from 500 to 1150 AD things were relatively quiet around the world.

I'd also like to point out that according to scripture, Jesus made it clear He was going (right then), to prepare a place for us. That to me indicates His Kingdom was already established, and He was setting things up for us...;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
I'd also like to point out that according to scripture, Jesus made it clear He was going (right then), to prepare a place for us. That to me indicates His Kingdom was already established, and He was setting things up for us...;)

v/r

Q
when the kingdom was born , (revelation 12;5-6) it happened at a later time ,the book of revelation is for our day ,we are in the Lords day, and yes Jesus did go back to heaven ,but he had to wait for the time he would be made king
But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. hebrews 10;12-13

(Romans 8:34) Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.​



(Colossians 3:1) If, however,you were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God

and yes, the 144,000 have their place in the kingdom (Jews and non Jews) and most of them are already up there doing what their king wants them too ,shortly after Jesus was made king in 1914 he resurrected those who would be going up there with him ,and those who he spoke to when he was on the earth have got their place . yes the kingdom is now established busy ,busy, busy. its all being revealed in the time of the end.

 
jesus christ was born a king and was worshipped by men on earth and angels in heaven as a king, Jesus Christ lived his adult life preaching as a king, and he died on the cross as a king and resurrected as a king back to the glory of his father where he was always. the point is he was always a king. the kingdom was established with adam. adam walked with the lord in the garden and spoke to him. the lord sat with abraham in the tent and ate with him, david filled with the holy spirit knew of the lord and sang about him. john the baptist preached the coming of the lord and baptised him. all righteous men and prophets knew of the lord jesus before he was born on earth and in being faithful and worshipping god and believing in his son the kingdom was established with them. when christ came he fulfilled the law, created a new convenent with his people and the church. as we know live under grace rather than by law we are grafted into this kingdom. 1914 means nothing in regards to christ, his kingdom or his kingship or his return. it is only a date the is relevant to the jw religion and nothing more. it is by faith in christ that we are saved and no one else. all those that believe in god, the son, and the holy spirit are the kingdom which has been around since the beginning of our time.

"Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: Behold thy King cometh to thee, He is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass." (Zechariah 9:9)

 
mee said:
when the kingdom was born , (revelation 12;5-6) it happened at a later time ,the book of revelation is for our day ,we are in the Lords day, and yes Jesus did go back to heaven ,but he had to wait for the time he would be made king
But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet. hebrews 10;12-13

(Romans 8:34) Who is he that will condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died, yes, rather the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.​



(Colossians 3:1) If, however,you were raised up with the Christ, go on seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God

and yes, the 144,000 have their place in the kingdom (Jews and non Jews) and most of them are already up there doing what their king wants them too ,shortly after Jesus was made king in 1914 he resurrected those who would be going up there with him ,and those who he spoke to when he was on the earth have got their place . yes the kingdom is now established busy ,busy, busy. its all being revealed in the time of the end.


To be sure Revelations is for our day. However it was also for the days of the early Christians and the plight they were going through, and it dovetailed quite nicely into the situations they were facing then.

As far as Revelations and the 144,000 well, that is a subject for another thread. However I distinctly recall reading that the 144,000 are chosen during the Tribulations (when the Holy Spirit is gone, and the Anti-Christ is in full control of earth).

That day has not yet arrived.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
To be sure Revelations is for our day. However it was also for the days of the early Christians and the plight they were going through, and it dovetailed quite nicely into the situations they were facing then.

As far as Revelations and the 144,000 well, that is a subject for another thread. However I distinctly recall reading that the 144,000 are chosen during the Tribulations (when the Holy Spirit is gone, and the Anti-Christ is in full control of earth).

That day has not yet arrived.

v/r

Q
as far as i am aware the 144,000 started to be chosen from
Pentecost 33 C.E. onward ,they are the little flock that Jesus spoke of

Have no fear, little flock, because YOUR Father has approved of giving YOU the kingdom...luke 12;32 so they have been chosen , and if they remain faithful they would be resurrected soon after Jesus was made king in 1914, but for these last days there has been a gathering of a great crowd who have shown that they want to live under this kingdom goverment

After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: "Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb. revelation 7;9-10

 
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