Taiwan

[cavalier]

I've been living in Taiwan for the past 3 1/2 years and am curious about any thoughts any of you might have on Taiwanese issues:

Should Taiwan be independent, unify with China, or attempt to maintain the status quo?

Is China a threat to Taiwan?
If yes, should the world do anything about this?


If you have no thoughts on Taiwan, or have no idea what I'm writing about, I'd be interested in that too.

Thanks

 

[Tao_Equus]

Its a pretty uncommon occurrence but when I do see a news report or article on Taiwan I always read it. My perception is that it is an extremely nervous and uneasy situation there. The relationship between Taipai and Beijing akin to that between Moscow and Washington during the cold war. Chinese military capability has great expanded in recent years and all too often the navy seems to like carrying out its excersises close to Taiwan. I think I'd be pretty nervous living there.

Outside of that I really dont know a lot. Perhaps you could write something to give me a greater handle on life there?

Regards

David

 

[cavalier]

Hey David

People who live here really should be nervous abot China's military build-up (something like 800 ballistic missiles aimed at Taiwan, with more than 50 added every year), but they're not. I find it incredible, but to the average Taiwanese person it's a complete non-issue. I've tried engaging friends and adult students on this issue and the response is, with a couple of exceptions, always the same, they don't want unification with China but find the topic boring. The exceptions are businessmen working for Taiwanese companies investing in China, they want much closer ties as they perceive it will be good for the economy. If they could have direct flights to China that would also be good, at the moment you have to go via Hong Kong.

It is a common perception here that closer ties to China will be good for Taiwan economically. Perhaps this is what is what makes people who would ideologically or emotionally support independence, not push for this goal. Within the space of 30 years, Taiwan has gone from being a 3rd World, to a 1st World country. As a result, it is extremely important to people here that they live in a country where they and, more importantly, their children have the opportunity to make money.

The political situation here is a farce. There are basically 2 political camps, the pan-greens (currently in power) and the pan-blues. These two camps do not trust, respect, or like, and will not co-operate with each other. You regularly see politicians fighting on TV, this actually helps them to get votes. Perhaps not at the very top, but it seems that Taiwan's elected politicians use their position to line their pockets rather than serve the public. As a result, young people appear to have absolutely no interest in politics.

It is widely expected that the pan-blues will win the next presdential election. When in power they will definitely work more closely with Beijing and many suspect their real agenda will be to work towards unification.
If this happens, expect the majority of Taiwanese to stand by and do nothing.

 

[wil]

my perceptions limited in reality as they may be are...

Taiwanese have had this issue for so long they've quit allowing it to take up time and space...if you can't do anything about it why worry...like living at the base of a volcano...we ain't movin and yeah one day it will errupt...but for now I work with now..

also there is a status quo going on...the US supports Taiwan..and has issues with China rattling swords...China needs US to export to...China needs US to import technology from...when these things change...the concern in Taiwan will change.

I also would be very interested in hearing more of what you see going on over there...some insights. How and why are you there...and are you staying in a US compound or out and about regularly?

 

[Tao_Equus]

Hi and thanks for that.

just did a bit of googling around Chinese miltary expansion. Between what you have said, American analysis and independent military analysts such as Jaynes it would be difficult to conclude that Chinese modernisation of its military is aimed at bringing Taiwan 'back into the fold'. if that was its aim I think it would already be history. Given the current direction of Chinese westernisation, it's rapidly expanding middle classes of capatalists and its unquestionable aims of being a leading global trading partner its no suprise the average citizen in Taiwan is not overly concerned.

I would echo Wil once more here too, I would love to hear more in the way of personal insights, the idiosyncracies if you like, of life there.

Regards

David

 

[cavalier]

Hey

Life here in a moment, first the military situation. The last military analysis I saw was that China are still not able to take and hold Taiwan, they have the numbers, but our defenses are much more sophisticated.At the moment America would help if it came to war, but they are now saying that their responsibilities to the island are dependent on Taiwan being prepared to defend itself. At present it appears that Taiwan is not prepared to defend itself, for the last 3 years or so, the government has not been able to pass the arms procurement bill. As much as the US sees Taiwan as a major strategic defense position, they do want to continue to support the country if it appears that we may one day voluntarily align with China. Who knows if that will happen, but I think we should expect that Taiwan will work much more closely with Beijing after the next presidential election in 2008.


Ok, life here

No, I don't live on a US compound, I don't know if any of those exist.
I live a small country town called Minshiong, near to Chiayi City.
Before I go on, I should point out that what I will write will be about country areas, I have never lived in the big cities here. Taipei must be one of world's great cities, home of world's tallest building.
I teach English in a kindergarten and in a cram school. English is becomming more and more important in Taiwan, the government has plans for the country to become bilingual. Out here in the country though, most adults only know a few words.

I'll just write things as they come to me, if one of them interests you, ask me some more.

*People are very superstitious, students always make offerings in the local Confucian Temple before an exam.
My wife's (she is Taiwanese) friend makes offerings every week that she will win the lottery.

*Religion is very important, there are temples everywhere, scattered through towns, in the middle of shops, on mountain roads.
People regularly make offerings, burn ghost money, and visit other temples(sometimes in huge processions that block up the roads)

*Fortune tellers are often called on to set wedding, funeral, and business opening dates and times.

*Funerals can start at any time, the other week one started at 5am.

*They are always loud, many families hire professional mourners who will come and wail, cry and shout (all on a microphone), the louder, and showier the funeral, the more you honor the deceased.

*You can marry someone even after they've died.

*Funerals, weddings, and temple holy days sometimes make use of KTV girls, girls from one of the many local karaoke clubs. They will arrive wearing very little, will sing, tell dirty jokes, and possibly take off their clothes.

*Bin lan - betel nut. a small nut which, when chewed apparently gives you a buzz. It also rots your teeth and gums and will turn them red, and it can give you mouth and throat cancer. Despite this, it's very popular. It's sold by girls who wear very very little, some of whom will, apparently, assist you in other ways aswell.

*Convenience, 7-11's and other convenience stores are everywhere, and they are all 24 hour, there's a 24hr. McDonalds just down the road.
There are food stalls everywhere, often little more than a man with a couple of woks cooking rice and noodles, and his wife helping him.
Even in oderately sized towns, it's possible to go out at 2am and have a wide range of food options.

I'll leave it there for now, if there's any more ou want to know, let me know.

It's a strange, confusing , and fascinating country.

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste Cavalier,

thank you for the interesting post.

I've been living in Taiwan for the past 3 1/2 years and am curious about any thoughts any of you might have on Taiwanese issues:

Should Taiwan be independent, unify with China, or attempt to maintain the status quo?

i really don't think that a reunification is possible. Taiwan is a democracy, for the most part, and China is a Facist Communist state the two ideologies do not mix well together.

Is China a threat to Taiwan?

only if you consider hundreds of missles pointed at the island and Chinas threat to invade if Taiwan delcares formal independence, threatening. i would concluded that Taiwan is in dire straights at the moment.

with a new Chinese government in order, there is some hope for dialog though given how they go about dialog with the Tibetans, i don't have a lot of optimism in this regard.

If yes, should the world do anything about this?

yes. Europe should STOP selling weapons to the Red Chinese, which they just started to do. they had refused before due to the human rights records and invasion and occuptation of Tibet. recently, however, that has changed. United States should take China off the Most Favored Trade partner list and should enforce strict tarrifs on cheap Chinese products.

there are many things that the collective world can do, should they put their collective minds to it, i should think.

my views on Red China are not favorable due to the situtation in Tibet. as such, i fully recognize that my views are not impartial with regards to Red China and any of their aims and goals.

metta,

~v

 

[Quahom1]

I've been living in Taiwan for the past 3 1/2 years and am curious about any thoughts any of you might have on Taiwanese issues:

Should Taiwan be independent, unify with China, or attempt to maintain the status quo?

Is China a threat to Taiwan?
If yes, should the world do anything about this?


If you have no thoughts on Taiwan, or have no idea what I'm writing about, I'd be interested in that too.

Thanks

Taiwan is independent (as it were), if one thinks about it. It simply hasn't been declared. China is not (yet) about to attempt to dump the cart of apples. In the mean time, Taiwan should continue to develop its defenses (quietly), and continue about its daily business. But a wise man keeps one eye on his unfriendly neighbor, at all times, or else gets a good watch dog (with a quiet but meaningful growl and sharp teeth). Taiwan has done both.

A peaceful man who intends to defend his home with extreme predjudious, is one of the most dangerous animals on earth...because he will do anything to keep his sense of peace. I think China is quite aware of that...

Taiwan also has allies that China may not care for, but still has healthy respect of.

I would say, keep low key, low profile, conduct business, and remain alert and ready to act, at the drop of a hat.

my thoughts.

v/r

Q

 

[cavalier]

Thanks Vajradhara

Europe should STOP selling weapons to the Red Chinese, which they just started to do. they had refused before due to the human rights records and invasion and occuptation of Tibet. recently, however, that has changed. ~v

Yes, this is something which really irritates me, especially the hypocrisy of the French. They made huge claims to occupying a moral high ground over the war in Iraq, and yet they were one of the countries pushing hardest to begin selling arms to China.

 

[cavalier]

Taiwan is independent (as it were), if one thinks about it. It simply hasn't been declared. Q

But, because it has not been declared, and because the country's name has not been formally changed from The Republic of China to Taiwan, it is impossible for us to join the UN or any of its agencies, including the WHO. A problem that became particularly marked during the SARS outbreak, and which will affect the country again if/when the bird flu epidemic begins.

A peaceful man who intends to defend his home with extreme predjudious, is one of the most dangerous animals on earth...because he will do anything to keep his sense of peace. Q

The only problem is, what is Taiwan actually prepared to do? Does Taiwan actually even want to defend itself? Opposition leaders have recently been visiting China, kissing the ground and crying over they feel to be back in the "motherland" , then they stand mute while Hu Jintao talks about his interpretation of "One China". What do most Taiwanese people do, or even feel about this? Pretty much nothing.

For about three years, the ideologically pro-independance government has been unable to a pass a bill that would allow the country to purchase submarines, patriot missile batteries, and aircraft. The oppostion parties continuously block the bill. If the people of Taiwan really cared about defending themselves then, at the very least, support for these opposition parties would go down. In fact, the reverse is happening. The main opposition party (the Kuomintang, formed in China in 1912) is gaining in popularity and, barring miracles, its leader, Ma Ying jeou will win the next presidential election. Who knows what will happen then, but most expect much closer ties with Beijing.

 

[wil]

What do most Taiwanese people do, or even feel about this? Pretty much nothing.

Why do you think this is? What is the societal thought regarding the situation? Hopeless? Deserved?

During a discussion with a few Nigerians, they said they have the gov't and dicatator they deserve. This floored me as they are in a country who changes leaders by bloody coups or revolution and currently sit on huge oil wealth while their dicator absorbs most the wealth and the people fight to survive and exist. These fellows worked in a bank in Lagos...big city, 10-12 hours a day and an almost 2 hour bus ride to get to a place where they could live on their incomes.. But they indicated that they get the leader they deserve based on the collective consciousness of their country...and as they improve themselves, their life, their country, their leaders that rise to power and their gov't will improve as well.

They told me the leaders are created by the consciousness of the people...they are the fulfillment...

It blew me away. We here in the USA 'peacefully' elect a new leader every four years...and then if our selected leader doesn't get in...we waste no time washing our hands of the whole situation and putting a bumper sticker on our car saying...I didn't vote for the idiot...

yes I know it is an exageration and generalization...but do we think we get the leaders we deserve due to our collective consciousness? Bush, Clinton, Nixon, Agnew....

Does Taiwan?

 

[Tao_Equus]

yes I know it is an exageration and generalization...but do we think we get the leaders we deserve due to our collective consciousness?

What do you think Wil?

Tony Blair.....hmmmm need to think on it too.


david

 

[cavalier]

Now there's a thought, and I guess there's a lot of truth in it. I knew a man in Kenya who would certainly agree.

In this country the current president, Chen Shui Bian is, like Taiwan, a rags to riches story.

The probable next president also sems to reflect the nation's consciousness. In Taiwan these days people care a hell of a lot about appearances, almost to the point that the appearance is more important than the substance. The man in line is a smooth talker, good with the press and above all else, handsome. His mistakes and shortcomings are barely even noticed.