Thomas said:Big handshakes and back-slapping bear hugs across the water to you (btw - my better half reckons the back-slapping bit is just men convincing ourselves we're not cuddling!)
Thomas said:Originally Posted by Thomas (OPT)
If one wanted 'everything' then one would not be worthy of the blessing.
We all have wants and needs and to deny that you don't want or need is denying your humanity.
And the purpose of ascesic is? Of detachment? Of putting your neighbour first? Of morality, of virtue?
Thomas said:To deny our wants and needs are the foundations of sanctity. Otherwise we might as well go and rut in the gutter like dogs?
The question depends whether our wants and needs rise from our 'natural nature', which I suggest could survive quite happily with:
Food ... Comfort (of companionship) ... Shelter ... Warmth ...
or whether they arise from the disordered passions of an unrestrained volative nature.
Then again, if one was spiritually and metally mature, one wouldn't want in a qualitative or materialistic sense.
Grown people still find the need to "play" every now and then.
The greater the mind, the greater the need for play.
And take delight in simple things ...
It depends what you mean by 'play'? When St Francis of Asissi was on an important mission, his companion went missing, and could not be found. "I know where he will be," the saint said, "where do the children play?" and Br. Leo was found playing with the village children. One of the party went to berate the brother, but Francis intervened, "if there were a hundred more like him, the world would be saved for Christ."
The story goes that St Thomas Aquinas was in prayer before the Blessed Sacramant when Jesus asked "What do you want of me?" to which Thomas replied "You Lord, only you."
Im not really following your answer, but it seems that you may be saying that everything you want is "GOD". I may be wrong though.
So would you be able to handle it if GOD gave you "GOD"?
Yes. We were made for Union with the Divine.
The Beatitudes answers this question, I think...
What exactly is a "Beatitude?
Everything our heart desires ... if only we knew ...
Dor said:[SIZE=+2] "Blessed are the poor in spirit, [/SIZE][SIZE=+2]
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+2]Gospel of Matthew 5:3-10 [/SIZE]
The practice of ascetic is thought by "some" to purify the soul which comes through denial of material things which may cause detachment.
There's nowt wrong with that. I think it's the Sufis who say 'act as if God is watching your every move' ... or was that my Sunday School guilt trip? Whatever, the Sufi does say 'God is closer than your jugular vein'.This is an act of "man" tring to look as good to GOD as he possible can.
I think the shuffling silence that followed answers that question!"He who is without sin, cast the first stone". I wonder why Jesus said that?
Indeed. You can't pull the woool over God's eyes.Putting your neighbor first is only as good as your "true" intentions.
Not entirely. The Sacred Scriptures of every tradition are held to be 'given' from above, and underlie notions of morality ..."Man's "morality" is subjective.
Slavery was thought to be "moral" because it was supposed to be taming the "savages" and making them "civilized" and bringing them to GOD. Guess we all know how that turned out.
Indeedy!Simply put, diamonds are made out of coal.
How you handle them is either give in, or hold out - if it's the latter, that's what I meant by 'deny' (as in refuse, not as in lie about them)To "deny" is to be un-truthful. To "admit" is to begin to a journey of understanding your faults and asking GOD to help you with them. The question is not whether needs arise from either source mentioned above, it's how to handle them when they do arise.
Thomas said:Not sure if that's in the right order, and I would suggest the practice of asceticism is universal, and not limited to religion. I don't know of any who teach the opposite - although within every tradition there have been those who sought to pervert it.).
Thomas said:The purification of the soul comes by the stilling of every human passion to allow the transcendant to be reflected within that stillness of being - purgation - illumination - union: "be still and know that I am God" (Psalm 46:10).
Thomas said:There's nowt wrong with that. I think it's the Sufis who say 'act as if God is watching your every move' ... or was that my Sunday School guilt trip? Whatever, the Sufi does say 'God is closer than your jugular vein'
I think its the fruit of experience and reflection ... a growing in wisdom ....).
Thomas said:I think the shuffling silence that followed answers that question!.).
Thomas said:Indeed. You can't pull the woool over God's eyes..).
Thomas said:There seems to be an implication that someone's trying to fool someone? Am I missing a point?.).
Thomas said:Not entirely. The Sacred Scriptures of every tradition are held to be 'given' from above, and underlie notions of morality ... .).
Thomas said:So is the export of democracy and freedom at gunpoint (oops, a tad political) but there's a 'moral majority' out there who see it as a good thing ... I would suggest a little more conscience-searching against belief, would answer that question. As ever, it's not what you do, it's why you do it....).
Thomas said:Isn't that view of morality progressive? Each generation is more moral than the one before - in which case 'we're all doomed!' and only the last generation will stand half a chance?.).
Thomas said:How you handle them is either give in, or hold out - if it's the latter, that's what I meant by 'deny' (as in refuse, not as in lie about them)
Quahom1 said:If God gave me everything I want...I wouldn't be here. He'd be showing me the wonders of the universe...
...but now is not the time.
Blue Jay said:Hey Q, as you're bobbing tempest tossed out in the middle of the ocean with only the sky above and the waves below...what more do you want? If that's not enough excitement, throw in a life or death crisis that depends on your skill to solve.
I always imagine that between the sky and the waves is about as close to the universe as one could wish to get. Take that from a person who has barely been from home because God's nature is just so wonderful right here at home.
Blue Jay said:Snoopy said:
<When people get something like a massive money windfall>
I don’t think this gets at the heart of what we wish for. It’s just plain materialistic and what we wish for in our deepest being is not material goods.
Snoopy said:Hi Blue Jay,
I think quite a lot of people would take "all their desires to be granted" as involving a good deal of material things, would it not?
I'm not recommending that as the path of true happiness, just my observation. Or maybe I live in too much of a consumer society to see the deeper feelings of most people.