Word of God

streetbob2006 said:
Hey Luna, yes Jesus is refered to many times in the NT as "the word of GOd", but there are many times that the word of God is referred to as the message of God itself...not CHrist. The first verse I gave Jesus was refering to the Old Testament and calling it the word of GOd. The second 2 were from the NT. Many other times the scriptures refer to themselves as Holy Scriptures.. (set apart) MOre in depth tomorrow. GOd bless..
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Actually, the first verse Jesus was referring to one of the ten Commandments. "Thall shalt honer thy mother and thy father" He never said, or even suggested that he was talking about the entire OT....only a commandment of God.

Mark 7:7-13

7. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11. But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Much Love,
 
Actually, he was probably speaking about Gods commandments altogether. I had to go back and re-read that part, sorry. Even so, no mention of OT...just the commandments.

I should have quoted more, I think...

Mark 7:6-13 (KJV)

6. He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10. For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11. But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12. And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13. Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Much Love,
 
libertylover76 said:
I invited streetbob2006 to join me from a discussion we were having at YouTube.

I hope he/she decides to come over.
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Benny Hill :D... Heh awesome...

LOL

"Check all other books that claim to be Holy and they are either written by one guy (easy to make up something) or they contridict one another. NOne of them predict the future." - Streetbob.

It's easy for one person to make something up? But not easy for a group of people to make something up? That logic tickles me. Just because the bible "doesn't contridict" itself makes it in no way or form the truth.... I have a few books of "barny the owl" and all of them are in harmony and don't contradict each other!!"£$!" Maybe these are the word of a god!!! The only thing that is contridicting in christianity is... christians. :) Sure your book seems to have a steady flow but that means nothing really.

"Not many other religons span back as far Historically as CHristianity does. (in judaism) It was not just started in 600 AD were there was nothing before it" - Streetbob.

Christianity is the second YOUNGEST mainsteam religion.... :)
 
... And then you discover that the opening of the Gospel of John is taken almost word for word from the Upanishads. That really makes you think.

I'm sure there are many texts from ancient times to the present day that are inspired by God. And many that are not. This is the trouble with putting your faith in a book rather than in God.
 
"And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. " - Matthew 4:3-4

It is written. Implies something that is written down. Let's look at the verse in question as referencd in the OT:

"All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." - Deut 8:1-3


So it is referencing the commandments as laid out in the Torah, the Law of Moses.

Jesus summed up the Law in two commandments in Matthew 22:37-40:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I would not have you overlook the importance of this last statement, for it is vital for us to realize how the Word of God is really enacted in our lives.

Why was Jesus referred as the Word of God? Because He live perfectly according to the commandments of God. He embodied the Law. And He was able to keep the commandments not by following the letter of the Law, but by being led by the Spirit of God. The very essence of God's Spirit is the key to fulfilling the Law.

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law....
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." - Galatians 5:18, 22-23

I would submit to you that the Word of God is spiritual. It is commandments written in the human heart through the Spirit of God.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." - Ezekiel 36:26-27

What we have here in the document we call the Bible is an imperfect representation of the spiritual Word of God that is Perfect. Much like the Tabernacle is representative of the Tabernacle not made with hands, the Bible is pointer to that which is spiritual.

That is why the Bible can be imperfect, but useful to pointing us to the Perfect. The truth is there, but it must be experienced.
 
Dondi said:
I would submit to you that the Word of God is spiritual. It is commandments written in the human heart through the Spirit of God.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." - Ezekiel 36:26-27

What we have here in the document we call the Bible is an imperfect representation of the spiritual Word of God that is Perfect. Much like the Tabernacle is representative of the Tabernacle not made with hands, the Bible is pointer to that which is spiritual.

That is why the Bible can be imperfect, but useful to pointing us to the Perfect. The truth is there, but it must be experienced.
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Very nice Dondi. :) I agree.

luna
 
Kindest Regards, and welcome to CR!
libertylover76 said:
1. Consistently self-contradictory.
2. The history is bogus.
3. The science is pure nonsense.
4. None of the predictions have come true.
5. I don't understand how the OT points to Jesus or the Christ, any more than Nostrodamus' writings point to "Hisler." Sure, after-the-fact the NT was written to try to tie into the OT, but so what?

6. Still doesn't anwer the question: What can we point to outside of the Bible to show the value of it as a moral guide?
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1. False
2. False
3. What science?
4. False
5. Of course, it depends on perspective. From a Jewish perspective; Jesus does not fulfill prophecy. From a Christian perspective; Jesus fulfills many, but not all, prophecies. From an outside perspective with an axe to grind who have no interest in considering Biblical teachings as sacred; this debate is meaningless, irrelevent and doesn't matter how many prophecies are fulfilled because prophecy is not believed anyway. So, how can a non-believer possibly raise this as a valid pointof contention if the parameters are outside of the scope of belief? That's just non-sense.
6. For one, the "golden rule" of "do unto others as you would have them do to you" is found in various forms across all of the major world faiths and a great majority of the minor world faiths.
 
Dondi said:
"And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. " - Matthew 4:3-4

It is written. Implies something that is written down. Let's look at the verse in question as referencd in the OT:

"All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." - Deut 8:1-3


So it is referencing the commandments as laid out in the Torah, the Law of Moses.

Jesus summed up the Law in two commandments in Matthew 22:37-40:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I would not have you overlook the importance of this last statement, for it is vital for us to realize how the Word of God is really enacted in our lives.

Why was Jesus referred as the Word of God? Because He live perfectly according to the commandments of God. He embodied the Law. And He was able to keep the commandments not by following the letter of the Law, but by being led by the Spirit of God. The very essence of God's Spirit is the key to fulfilling the Law.

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law....
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." - Galatians 5:18, 22-23

I would submit to you that the Word of God is spiritual. It is commandments written in the human heart through the Spirit of God.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." - Ezekiel 36:26-27

What we have here in the document we call the Bible is an imperfect representation of the spiritual Word of God that is Perfect. Much like the Tabernacle is representative of the Tabernacle not made with hands, the Bible is pointer to that which is spiritual.

That is why the Bible can be imperfect, but useful to pointing us to the Perfect. The truth is there, but it must be experienced.
Click to expand...


Great post, and I agree 100%. :)


Much Love,
 
Dondi said:
"And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. " - Matthew 4:3-4

It is written. Implies something that is written down. Let's look at the verse in question as referencd in the OT:

"All the commandments which I command thee this day shall ye observe to do, that ye may live, and multiply, and go in and possess the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers.
And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.
And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live." - Deut 8:1-3


So it is referencing the commandments as laid out in the Torah, the Law of Moses.

Jesus summed up the Law in two commandments in Matthew 22:37-40:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I would not have you overlook the importance of this last statement, for it is vital for us to realize how the Word of God is really enacted in our lives.

Why was Jesus referred as the Word of God? Because He live perfectly according to the commandments of God. He embodied the Law. And He was able to keep the commandments not by following the letter of the Law, but by being led by the Spirit of God. The very essence of God's Spirit is the key to fulfilling the Law.

"But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law....
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." - Galatians 5:18, 22-23

I would submit to you that the Word of God is spiritual. It is commandments written in the human heart through the Spirit of God.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them." - Ezekiel 36:26-27

What we have here in the document we call the Bible is an imperfect representation of the spiritual Word of God that is Perfect. Much like the Tabernacle is representative of the Tabernacle not made with hands, the Bible is pointer to that which is spiritual.

That is why the Bible can be imperfect, but useful to pointing us to the Perfect. The truth is there, but it must be experienced.
Click to expand...

One more passage I would like to add:
Jeremiah 31:31-34 said:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
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juantoo3 said:
6. For one, the "golden rule" of "do unto others as you would have them do to you" is found in various forms across all of the major world faiths and a great majority of the minor world faiths.
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Hi,

Yes, I wonder why? Maybe because if this was how we actually all lived our lives, the world would be a lot more snuggly a place.

s.
 
I have to go with Dondi to the extent that an imperfect thing can help you understand a perfect thing, because I would agree wholeheartedly that the Bible is very imperfect.

I also agree with Dondi that the experience of god/gods is subjective.

Since I have never experienced such a thing, in spite of my years of effort to do so, I have to conclude that these gods that people talk about are things they make up in their own heads to explain certain feelings they have and to give them comfort in times of emotional turmoil. They are welcome to it. No harm in telling yourself that "God has a reason."

When people try to claim that their gods actually have an effect on the world, then I challenge believers to prove that claim. They never do.
 
libertylover76 said:
I have to go with Dondi to the extent that an imperfect thing can help you understand a perfect thing, because I would agree wholeheartedly that the Bible is very imperfect.

I also agree with Dondi that the experience of god/gods is subjective.

Since I have never experienced such a thing, in spite of my years of effort to do so, I have to conclude that these gods that people talk about are things they make up in their own heads to explain certain feelings they have and to give them comfort in times of emotional turmoil. They are welcome to it. No harm in telling yourself that "God has a reason."
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Have you ever experienced Love, libertylover? I try not to put negative attributes on to God, even though many have been throughout our existence. [Look at the OT] Jesus gave me another perception of God who John defines as "Love", and that is the God I choose to serve. Love makes a difference in the world as far as I can see. :)



Much Love,
 
Because it was Jesus who led me to the Love of God, and it was his teachings that helped me embrace it.
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That's fine for you, as I said.

Besides, there's lots of good stuff in the Bible.
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There's lots of good stuff in lots of philosophies.

This question is for everyone: What makes the Bible so special, then?
 
libertylover76 said:
That's fine for you, as I said.
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Yes, it does work for me, but I think many are lead away from this because of harsh Christian attitudes. Yes, I'm quite sure of it...

There's lots of good stuff in lots of philosophies.
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Yes there is, and I would never lead a person away from anything that helps to define truth as 'I' know it. There are many venues that lead to the 'path' I've chosen, and a think they are, or can be useful, just as the Bible can be. I have chosen the Bible as a helpful guide for life; others are certainly free to choose what they wish,and I certainly won't judge for what speaks to them personally.

Not everyone will view The Bible as I view it, nor will everyone embrace much of what's inside. I think Love is the only 'righteous' path, but I also think there are other philosophies that can lead a person into the bosom of this path, so all is well where I'm standing.

This question is for everyone: What makes the Bible so special, then?
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Because it speaks to the hearts of many people, and these people cherish what it can offer them. I personally think that too much faith is placed on the Bible, and not nearly enough on the Love of God. I do think the scripture was inspired, though.



Much Love,
 
Hi libertylover76 –

A word of caution –
"Since I have never experienced such a thing, in spite of my years of effort to do so, I have to conclude that these gods that people talk about are things they make up in their own heads to explain certain feelings they have and to give them comfort in times of emotional turmoil."

Reading this at face value implies that because you have not experienced something, it does not exist. which seems a bit supremacist on your part?

How about concluding that if God exists, you have had no experience of Him?

Your original questions:
1. Consistently self-contradictory.
Biblical scholarship has covered this point in some depth. The various traditions that weave the stuff of Scripture have been highlighted, although there is still much work to be done.

2. The history is bogus.
Two points:
It is the perception by a people of God, and of the world, who did the best with what they knew.
Just over a century ago science insisted that Moses could not have written the Pentateuch because writing was not invented then ... then archeologists discovered writing older even than Moses ... all secular sciences are under revision ... in a few generations the science you live by will be deemed bogus ... and I bet most of what we understand as history would be ogus if we knew what was really going on...

3. The science is pure nonsense.
Ditto. When the inventor demonstrated the phonograph, scientists accused him of throwing his voice... And as science does not possess all the answers, it's not really in a position to make absolute statements.

4. None of the predictions have come true.
That's a matter of opinion.

5. I don't understand how the OT points to Jesus or the Christ, any more than Nostrodamus' writings point to "Hisler." Sure, after-the-fact the NT was written to try to tie into the OT, but so what?
If you don't understand, ask someone to explain. If you don't want to understand, don't vex yourself.

Thomas
 
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