Word of God

Yes we are hear at ringside, both contenders have stepped into the ring, we've got Luna center ring to determine the exact nature of this discussion. She has formerly greeted Liberty Lover, Streetbob has entered the ring and nodded...we await the bell...an explanation of the OP...

this is exciting.
 
Welcome to CR, Liberty and ST.Bob:

Ok Luna can be the judge of who wins rounds. Wil as long as you have your tuxedo and spats on you can certainly be the ring announcer.

Puhllleeeaasee can I keep time on my Timex and ring the big bell between rounds?...Can I...Can I...Huh...Huh...?

flow....:D
 
Well, streetbob2006 and I were having a discussion about the Bible as God's word in the comments section of this YouTube video:

http: // www . youtube . comwatch ? v = WkBjMf1PtvA

(Please remove spaces. Evidently I am not allowed to post a URL until my 10th post.)

I felt that the venue was too constraining, so I looked around for a "neutral" forum, one that I thought was neither too religiously- nor irreligiously-oriented, and that's how I found IF Forums.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I refer you all to the discussion linked to above, but will repost my queries below.

If the Bible is the Word of God, how is it so easily twisted by humans? Is this not the equivalent of humans meddling in God's plan? Could a human have doused the burning bush? Could a human have stopped the crucifixion? If not, then how could humans so easily interfere in the proper understanding of the Word of God?

I’ve figured out how to subscribe to this thread, so I ought to get notification when new posts are made.

Talk to you soon, streetbob2006!
 
Hi Liberty, this is defiantly a better place to have a discussion...Good idea. My reponse would be this: THe comparsion you made is like apples and oranges. The questions of can men interfer with Gods plan and How can Gods word be twisted are 2 different topics that are not dependent of each other. (or at least in my opinion) Your original question was how can men twist scripture if it is GOds perfect word. I believe that it is easy because verses can be taken out of context and twisted and munipulated to fit ones agenda or bias. God has revealed himself to us through his natural laws of communication which again involve contextulization. No matter what is said or how it is said, it can be misused. PLus if you look at cults or certain groups of people who misuse scripture for an agenda, you usually will notice that what they are pushing is opposed to other scripture thus making it false. As far as the other question goes...men cannot thoart GOds plan.

hope to hear your opinion!
 
libertylover76 said:
If the Bible is the Word of God, how is it so easily twisted by humans? Is this not the equivalent of humans meddling in God's plan? Could a human have doused the burning bush? Could a human have stopped the crucifixion? If not, then how could humans so easily interfere in the proper understanding of the Word of God?
Click to expand...

I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where it declare itself 'the word of God'.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It says 'inspired by God', and that is something completely different, imo. I think people put far too much faith in the Bible, and not enough in God...

*Mustard seed*


Much Love,
 
Welcome Streetbob2006. :)

Have an enjoyable discussion, and of course as this is an open forum we will get to hear other member's opinions too. It's an interesting topic.

lunamoth
 
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

It says 'inspired by God', and that is something completely different, imo. I think people put far too much faith in the Bible, and not enough in God...

*Mustard seed*


Much Love,[/quote]



Hi Cage
 
streetbob2006 said:
Your original question was how can men twist scripture if it is GOds perfect word. I believe that it is easy because verses can be taken out of context and twisted and munipulated to fit ones agenda or bias. God has revealed himself to us through his natural laws of communication which again involve contextulization. No matter what is said or how it is said, it can be misused. PLus if you look at cults or certain groups of people who misuse scripture for an agenda, you usually will notice that what they are pushing is opposed to other scripture thus making it false.
Click to expand...
Hi, streetbob2006, glad you like the forum. Hi, everyone.

Everything that you say above is explaining that, yes, the words in the Bible can be twisted, misinterpreted and taken out of context. We have no disagreement on that.

Your claim and that of Cage above is that the Bible is not the Word of God, because, well, the Bible doesn’t say it is. That’s a little self-referential, but fits in with one of the things I said back at YouTube – that different people interpret the Bible in different ways, and you-all must admit that there are Christians who claim that the Bible is the exact Word of God, inscribed by His hand. And I’ll bet they can find Bible passages that support their interpretation as well.

It’s hard for me to argue that the Bible is any different than any other book that folks have written from stories that were passed around back when we humans were really good at accurately remembering vast amounts of text, because I don’t believe that it is. (As an aside, I could write a whole website just about our over-reliance on the printed word.) So I take your correction at face value and agree that the Bible is not a perfect document and can be misread, either deliberately or accidentally.

Then what? What is there about the Bible that makes it any more worthwhile as a moral guide than Plato’s Republic, or the Qur'an, or the Bhagavad Gita or even The Book of Five Rings? Cage has cited Biblical passages in support of his/her position that the Bible is a moral guide, but that is very self-referential. Do we have any objective standard, outside of the Bible that we can rely on to point to it as a special book, above and beyond all others?
 
Hi Cage, I think if you look throughout scripture you will that the bible does imply that it is the word of GOd. Here are a few examples.

Here is Jesus talking of the Old Testament:
  1. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."
  3. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
  4. 2 Peter 1:20-21:
    20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit
Also if you look up the word inspiration you get some definitions like these:
to communicate or suggest by a divine or supernatural influence: writings inspired by God.
to guide or control by divine influence.
 
streetbob2006 said:
Hi Cage, I think if you look throughout scripture you will that the bible does imply that it is the word of GOd. Here are a few examples.
Click to expand...
Hi Streetbob. :)

Your quotes below do imply that the Word of God is known to men but they do not say that the Word of God is the Bible (OT in this case). Not all of the OT was prophecy. In the NT Jesus was the Word of God, not the book. Inspired by God, to me, means just that, the people who wrote it were inspired by their knowledge of and/or experience of God. Further we can fully accept the entire Bible as sacred, a trustworthy means for God to speak to us today.

2c,
lunamoth

streetbob said:
Here is Jesus talking of the Old Testament:
  1. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."
  3. For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
  4. 2 Peter 1:20-21:
    20Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit
Also if you look up the word inspiration you get some definitions like these:
to communicate or suggest by a divine or supernatural influence: writings inspired by God.
to guide or control by divine influence.
Click to expand...
 
Luke 8:11

11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.



John 1:1-4

1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2. The same was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.



John 10 27-30

27. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28. And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30. I and my Father are one.



1 John 4:8

8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.



John 10:14

4. I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.


God, Jesus, Love...This is the word of God. The Bible is merely a guide to find them, or rather embrace them, imo.

The holy Trinity, if you will.


Much Love,
 
libertylover76 said:
Hi, streetbob2006, glad you like the forum. Hi, everyone.

Everything that you say above is explaining that, yes, the words in the Bible can be twisted, misinterpreted and taken out of context. We have no disagreement on that.

Your claim and that of Cage above is that the Bible is not the Word of God, because, well, the Bible doesn’t say it is. That’s a little self-referential, but fits in with one of the things I said back at YouTube – that different people interpret the Bible in different ways, and you-all must admit that there are Christians who claim that the Bible is the exact Word of God, inscribed by His hand. And I’ll bet they can find Bible passages that support their interpretation as well.

It’s hard for me to argue that the Bible is any different than any other book that folks have written from stories that were passed around back when we humans were really good at accurately remembering vast amounts of text, because I don’t believe that it is. (As an aside, I could write a whole website just about our over-reliance on the printed word.) So I take your correction at face value and agree that the Bible is not a perfect document and can be misread, either deliberately or accidentally.

Then what? What is there about the Bible that makes it any more worthwhile as a moral guide than Plato’s Republic, or the Qur'an, or the Bhagavad Gita or even The Book of Five Rings? Cage has cited Biblical passages in support of his/her position that the Bible is a moral guide, but that is very self-referential. Do we have any objective standard, outside of the Bible that we can rely on to point to it as a special book, above and beyond all others?
Click to expand...


The bible was written over a span of 1500 years, over 3 continents,and has more then 40 authors and it is consistent. (try taking 3 professors at te same university studying the same topic...have them write a paper on the same thing and see how consistent they are) It explains the begining of the world and it tells us about the end of the world. It starts for the looking of the messsiah and later it is fulfilled in CHrist. It prophecys hundreds of times and it is right on every time. It is never been contridicted scientifically,historically, and in any other fashion. EX Isaiah 53:5 written around 750 years before CHrist says about him (check the Dead Sea scrolls) "but he was wounded for pur transgressions; brusied for our iniquities...the LOrd laid the inquity of us all on him."


Check all other books that claim to be Holy and they are either written by one guy (easy to make up something) or they contridict one another. NOne of them predict the future.

Everything in the Old Testament is symbolic of CHrist. The exodus from Egypt, circumsition,the sacrficifial lambs. No other book it like it. In the bible it says to wash with running water for cleaniness reasons...we did not do this till about 75 years ago becuase people at the time thought it was better to wash in tubs. Jesus fufilled over 150 prophecies! That is amazing. No other book can predict the future.


Not many other religons span back as far Historically as CHristianity does. (in judaism) It was not just started in 600 AD were there was nothing before it.

Sorry its all over the place...want to say more...got to get back to work
 
Consistently self-contradictory.
The history is bogus.
The science is pure nonsense.
None of the predictions have come true.
I don't understand how the OT points to Jesus or the Christ, any more than Nostrodamus' writings point to "Hisler." Sure, after-the-fact the NT was written to try to tie into the OT, but so what?

Still doesn't anwer the question: What can we point to outside of the Bible to show the value of it as a moral guide?
 
Hey Liberty, can you give me an example of the contradictions? the bogus history? the bad science and predictions that have not come true? Are you assuming these things or do you have evidence to back them up?

Do you understand CHristianity? Its a lot more then a moral guide. I would love to bring you through something that would clearify some things. It might shed some light on the subject....are you up for it?
 
lunamoth said:
Hi Streetbob. :)

Your quotes below do imply that the Word of God is known to men but they do not say that the Word of God is the Bible (OT in this case). Not all of the OT was prophecy. In the NT Jesus was the Word of God, not the book. Inspired by God, to me, means just that, the people who wrote it were inspired by their knowledge of and/or experience of God. Further we can fully accept the entire Bible as sacred, a trustworthy means for God to speak to us today.

2c,
lunamoth
Click to expand...


Hey Luna, yes Jesus is refered to many times in the NT as "the word of GOd", but there are many times that the word of God is referred to as the message of God itself...not CHrist. The first verse I gave Jesus was refering to the Old Testament and calling it the word of GOd. The second 2 were from the NT. Many other times the scriptures refer to themselves as Holy Scriptures.. (set apart) MOre in depth tomorrow. GOd bless..
 
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