Can fear be productive when approaching God?

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Cage

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I remember having a great fear of God when younger. Well, not God himself, but a fear of hell instead. I feared doing the wrong things, and not pleasing him. I stumbled greatly during those days, and still do at times when I fear not being on the right path, or not believing in the right things.

Can this be productive? I mean, can fear lead a person to true respect, and addoration? It seems nowdays I belive in God and Love him, but I get confused when it comes to Jesus. Was he God, and if he was, why won't I believe it? (Fear of being wrong, I think)

It would seem to me that the Spirit is what counts, and beliving in God, and honoring him the best you can, wether you view him in a physical form, or not. I think he [Jesus] was certainly the son of God, and that he came for God, and in his Spirit. I fear being wrong about not viewing and worshiping Jesus as God, though. I can't change what I'm able to believe, and not believe, and this causes me fear, which is quite miserable at times.

Then I'll go back to Love, and I'll feel accepted, and joyous again, but my mind always seems to go back to fearing I'm wrong about Jesus. It's a brutal cycle of fear that seems to have no end./shrug

Can this be productive at all? God's not telling me Jesus is God, he's not telling me I have to believe he was, but he 'seems' to be showing me through my inward state that Love, and Spirit, and condition of heart is what matters. Why can't I keep these more fruitful things, and forego my mental fear of being wrong? (I don't expect anyone to answer this one)

Anyway, I think fear cripples the heart, and becomes a great stumbling block for many...


Love,
 
Makes me think of one of my favorite verses...
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah41:10[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.[/FONT]

The thing is we have to know who the righteous right hand is.
Read do searchs on right hand then read em all. The Bible is about Jesus from Gen to Rev. Praying you will find some bit of knowledge everyday.
 
Dear Cage--

I think this is the reason that so much emphasis is placed on the Holy Spirit. I think that when Jesus says that blasphemy can be forgiven against the Father and the Son, but not the Holy Spirit--it is quite telling. (Not that I think you have committed any kind of blasphemy--I am not here to discuss blasphemy!) But I think that it is that Spirit of God's Love that will hold you and comfort you and teach you and reveal these things. And it sounds to me like you are already being led in that respect. Not that I am wise, but just reading your heartfelt words....

InPeace,
InLove
 
Dor said:
Makes me think of one of my favorite verses...
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Isaiah41:10[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Fear thou not; for I am with thee: be not dismayed; for I am thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.[/FONT]

The thing is we have to know who the righteous right hand is.
Read do searchs on right hand then read em all. The Bible is about Jesus from Gen to Rev. Praying you will find some bit of knowledge everyday.
Click to expand...


Thank you, Dor...that was a gentle post and appreciated by me. I understand that the Bible points towards Jesus from Gensesis to The Revelation. I understand that my salvation rests firmly in his Spirit, Life, death, and ressurection. Only, I cling to his life and Spirit above the rest for some reason. Maybe I am offended by what happened on the cross, as it was an ugly thing to happen to such a beautiful soul.

Jesus came, he died, he returned/ressurected, and left his Spirit and testimony with us to embrace. I do honor him in my own way, so perhaps fear is not needed anymore?


Love,
 
InLove said:
Dear Cage--

I think this is the reason that so much emphasis is placed on the Holy Spirit. I think that when Jesus says that blasphemy can be forgiven against the Father and the Son, but not the Holy Spirit--it is quite telling. (Not that I think you have committed any kind of blasphemy--I am not here to discuss blasphemy!) But I think that it is that Spirit of God's Love that will hold you and comfort you and teach you and reveal these things. And it sounds to me like you are already being led in that respect. Not that I am wise, but just reading your heartfelt words....

InPeace,
InLove
Click to expand...


Thank you InLove,

Your words are a comfort to me, also. I just want to do what is right. I do wrong sometimes, but I'm not a Saint, or angel. I am human, with faults, fears, and much confusion at times.

Love,
 
Cage said:
Maybe I am offended by what happened on the cross, as it was an ugly thing to happen to such a beautiful soul.

Jesus came, he died, he returned/ressurected, and left his Spirit and testimony with us to embrace. I do honor him in my own way, so perhaps fear is not needed anymore?


Love,
Click to expand...
Aye Cage, what happened physically on the Cross was the ugliest, most hideous thing man could ever do.
But it was the most wonderful thing Jesus could(especially if he is God). Jesus himself said in John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
That is the way I can get past the sheer brutality of the cross is the love Jesus had for me to allow that to happen to him.

Cage said:
Thank you InLove,

Your words are a comfort to me, also. I just want to do what is right. I do wrong sometimes, but I'm not a Saint, or angel. I am human, with faults, fears, and much confusion at times.

Love,
Click to expand...
Actually if you look at the writings of Paul all true believers in Christ are saints.
 
Honestly speaking, we ought to fear God and have a healty reverance of Him. However, we arent that smart enough because we are dead in sin, naturally. However, when grace is imparted to a depraved sinner, the grace of God and His excellencies in His Mercy and Goodness are shown and the sinner is motivated by love to come to Christ. During the process of santification maturity in the faith, God gives grace to the regenerated sinner whereby the person may grow in knowledge of God. This is where the fear of God comes in, as the person sees even more of God's attributes - namely His Justice and wrath, and the person does as the bible promises they will do, "fear God." Not in the sense of "I must serve God because if I dont He will crush me." LOL! That isnt the case for the regenerated sinner because he knows there is now no condmenation for Him, but only grace. Yet, the knoweldge of His God and His power becomes so evident; not to mention the fact that He is saved by grace alone and should have been in the place of the unregenerated sinner, that the person fears God by revearing God as He ought. All that said, it is God's promise that those who He saves will be God-fearing people. Moreover, it is a thing to glory in to fear the Lord (Isa. 11:3)
 
Overcoming fear can be very productive when approaching God...There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:1-2

As for our Lord and Savior...
Study all of God's Word. Do not be discouraged by the inevitable faltering steps. Remember, Jesus said "I will be with you always, to the very end of the age."
Seek out wise, godly people. (Not here. While I think CR is great, it is a forum.) Go to a place where you can look someone in the eye while they address your fears.
Sincerely meditate on the answers, don't be distracted.
A church is a good place to approach God, but sometimes there isn't access to a good one. If you are sincere in your search, God will help.
 
Hi Cage and All,

Perect love casts out all fear. Some might say that fear is productive but it has been shown to me that there is no such thing in love and it seems to me to be counterproductive in a love walk with God.

As a child our parents taught us to fear certain things to protect us such as matches, fire, highways, etc... but as we mature we replace fear with wisdom and the usefulness of fear is no longer needed at a higher state of awareness. Just a view to consider.

Love in Christ,
JM
 
Hi Cage –

In reading your post, I was drawn to answer ... but I thought, 'let's get an expert in the field' so I looked at The Sayings of The Desert Fathers for 'fear' – in the index I found nothing ... and everything ... Joy ...

01 Not to judge
02 True peace
03 Obedience
04 How to become a disciple
05 Humility
06 True poverty
07 Life together
08 Silence
09 The kingdom within
10 Hospitality
11 Gentleness
12 Beasts and saints
13 Joy
14 Love
15 God is for all
16 Prayer
17 Intercession

So I offer you that index ... treat it as a tarot ... pick a number, have a reading ... meditate ...

Peace be with you ...

Thomas
Contemplating the Christian Mysteries
 
Cage said:
I remember having a great fear of God when younger. Well, not God himself, but a fear of hell instead. I feared doing the wrong things, and not pleasing him. I stumbled greatly during those days, and still do at times when I fear not being on the right path, or not believing in the right things.

Can this be productive? I mean, can fear lead a person to true respect, and addoration? It seems nowdays I belive in God and Love him, but I get confused when it comes to Jesus. Was he God, and if he was, why won't I believe it? (Fear of being wrong, I think)

It would seem to me that the Spirit is what counts, and beliving in God, and honoring him the best you can, wether you view him in a physical form, or not. I think he [Jesus] was certainly the son of God, and that he came for God, and in his Spirit. I fear being wrong about not viewing and worshiping Jesus as God, though. I can't change what I'm able to believe, and not believe, and this causes me fear, which is quite miserable at times.

Then I'll go back to Love, and I'll feel accepted, and joyous again, but my mind always seems to go back to fearing I'm wrong about Jesus. It's a brutal cycle of fear that seems to have no end./shrug

Can this be productive at all? God's not telling me Jesus is God, he's not telling me I have to believe he was, but he 'seems' to be showing me through my inward state that Love, and Spirit, and condition of heart is what matters. Why can't I keep these more fruitful things, and forego my mental fear of being wrong? (I don't expect anyone to answer this one)

Anyway, I think fear cripples the heart, and becomes a great stumbling block for many...


Love,
Click to expand...

Depends on the type of fear...Fear of disappointing versus fear of reprisal or consequence. One is based on respect and the other is or can be self centered. I think the truth lies somewhere in between, or a little of both types of fear when dealing with God. Sort of like when dealing with Dad. :)

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Depends on the type of fear...Fear of disappointing versus fear of reprisal or consequence. One is based on respect and the other is or can be self centered. I think the truth lies somewhere in between, or a little of both types of fear when dealing with God. Sort of like when dealing with Dad. :)

v/r

Joshua
Click to expand...

Frued said something about killing your father in your mind in order to become your own man.

Chris
 
Cage said:
I remember having a great fear of God when younger. Well, not God himself, but a fear of hell instead. I feared doing the wrong things, and not pleasing him. I stumbled greatly during those days, and still do at times when I fear not being on the right path, or not believing in the right things.

Can this be productive? I mean, can fear lead a person to true respect, and addoration? It seems nowdays I belive in God and Love him, but I get confused when it comes to Jesus. Was he God, and if he was, why won't I believe it? (Fear of being wrong, I think)
Click to expand...

There are those who willfully use God's mercy as a rationalization to continue harmful, unrighteous practices. This is where "fluffy bunnyism" is vulnerable to corruption. As per Hebrews 10:26-39, those who willfully trample on God's mercy are rejecting God's mercy, leaving God's judgement as the only option. The fear of God serves as a preserving factor for God's mercy. The image of the crucification of Jesus also serves as a stumbling block to those who would abuse God's mercy. God mercifully sent us Jesus, we crucified him in our ignorance. Now that we understand God's mercy, what excuse do we have left for trampling on it?
 
Wow! A lot of people have posted on this. o.k, this is what I've got so far...

Some are saying not to fear, [Thomas]--> Thanks for the link, btw. :) [Joseph] but others say that fear as in respect for God can be good. [Quahom] [Silas] Like, fear of disappointing him as opposed to fear of punishment. Even so, is true respect/reverance based on fear? My son respects me, but he doesn't fear me. He wants to impress, but I think/hope he understands that he need'nt fear disapointing me, either. I love him the way he is, and I try to make that clear. Although, he does understand that he will be corrected when he makes mistakes. This is how we learn, right? (wisdom) Trial, error, consequence, lessen learned if willing to embrace correction.

[seattlegal], you kinda lost me, but I think you're refering to man pushing fear, and perverting justice, as opposed to teaching God's true mercy, and living in accordance to his will? I hope I don't trample on his mercy, seattlegal, but I'm not perfect and do make mistakes from time to time. Actually, more often then I would like, but I try to learn from them, but I can be very thick headed and stubborn...I come by it naturally, lol!

I've heard of fluffy bunny wiccans, but never Christians. Am I a fluffy Bunny Christian because I try to focus on God's Love as opposed to his wrath, and anger? I don't mind if this is the case, I honor God the only way I know how...by embracing what I think he wants for mankind. I think all religions are subject to corruption, but this wouldn't be so prevelant if all religions showed commpassion for one another like Jesus taught us.

[pattimax] I'm a solitary man, and not good in real world situations. Church is hard for me to attend, so I must rely on message boards like this for my social, and religeous activities. I have an illness that prohibits me from being comfortable around people. social anxiety, and bi-polor...I could never learn a thing in church as I'm too focused on the anxiety it causes. I have been contemplating on all of scripture, though. Only, I haven't been reading lately. At the moment I'm completely relying on God's Love (Spirit) for my personal guidence, but I look to you guys for further input from scripture.


Much Love,
 
cage said:
[seattlegal], you kinda lost me, but I think you're refering to man pushing fear, and perverting justice, as opposed to teaching God's true mercy, and living in accordance to his will? I hope I don't trample on his mercy, seattlegal, but I'm not perfect and do make mistakes from time to time. Actually, more often then I would like, but I try to learn from them, but I can be very thick headed and stubborn...I come by it naturally, lol!
Click to expand...
Perhaps a better way to frame it would be, "Can fear be productive for those rejecting or abusing God's mercy?"

Indeed, it is man pushing fear and perverting justice instead of teaching God's true mercy and living accordance to his will. Jesus called the Pharisees out on the carpet over this in Matthew 23, starting out by saying in verses 2-3, "2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do." {Moses' seat is also known as the "mercy seat."}

Jesus then goes on to describe in detail just how the Pharisees trampled on God's mercy. Please notice his words at verse 33: "33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Doesn't this dovetail quite nicely with James 2:13-14? "12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."

I've heard of fluffy bunny wiccans, but never Christians. Am I a fluffy Bunny Christian because I try to focus on God's Love as opposed to his wrath, and anger? I don't mind if this is the case, I honor God the only way I know how...by embracing what I think he wants for mankind. I think all religions are subject to corruption, but this wouldn't be so prevelant if all religions showed commpassion for one another like Jesus taught us.
Click to expand...
No, you are not a "fluffy bunny" for focusing in on God's Love and Mercy. You become a "fluffy bunny" if you knowingly turn a blind eye to corruption without addressing the problem. Jesus was not a "fluffy bunny." He addressed the problem of corruption with the Pharisees, in no uncertain terms.
 
Cage said:
I'm a solitary man, and not good in real world situations. Church is hard for me to attend, so I must rely on message boards like this for my social, and religeous activities. I have an illness that prohibits me from being comfortable around people. social anxiety, and bi-polor...I could never learn a thing in church as I'm too focused on the anxiety it causes. I have been contemplating on all of scripture, though. Only, I haven't been reading lately. At the moment I'm completely relying on God's Love (Spirit) for my personal guidence, but I look to you guys for further input from scripture.
Click to expand...


It appears that you have dealt with enough fear as it is.

I'm kinda a social moron myself. However, a dynamic things happens to me when I've began praying for people in my church. I find that my focus is no longer on me, that the Love that God has put in my heart has enabled me to see people through the eyes of Christ, rather than my own eyes. In other words, I don't care what people think of me, nor what I perceive that they think of me. Instead, I find that I can talk openly to people and seek their interests and concerns. This is something I want to build on and maintain. And I know I can't do it alone, for it is so easy to drop back into my box.

I know what it's like to be deathly afraid of people you don't know very well. But I'm telling you that if you would give God the chance to Love through you, you will see some amazing things happen. His Love is to be shared.
 
China Cat Sunflower said:
Frued said something about killing your father in your mind in order to become your own man.

Chris
Click to expand...

Frued was an idiot. He always got things backwards. I am become like my father, because that is what I aspired to. I never wanted to take his place, just be something close to like him. Hope my children will exceed me...

We hope to approach our parents' stature, and pray our children exceed ours...

Same thing with God, we hope to come close to Him, and pray our children come closer still...

That is a healthy attitude for healthy families.

v/r

Joshua
 
Quahom1 said:
Frued was an idiot. He always got things backwards. I am become like my father, because that is what I aspired to. I never wanted to take his place, just be something close to like him. Hope my children will exceed me...

We hope to approach our parents' stature, and pray our children exceed ours...

Same thing with God, we hope to come close to Him, and pray our children come closer still...

That is a healthy attitude for healthy families.

v/r

Joshua
Click to expand...

Not everyone has fathers that aspire them.
 
Quahom1 said:
Frued was an idiot. He always got things backwards. I am become like my father, because that is what I aspired to. I never wanted to take his place, just be something close to like him. Hope my children will exceed me...

We hope to approach our parents' stature, and pray our children exceed ours...

Same thing with God, we hope to come close to Him, and pray our children come closer still...

That is a healthy attitude for healthy families.

v/r

Joshua
Click to expand...

I love my dad. There are things about him that I admire and aspire to, and the longer I'm married with children the more I understand him. But...his corporal disciplinarian style was part of the religious programing I had to endure as a child, and it screwed up my view of God. It took me years to unwind all that crap, and I did have to kill him in my mind to break free of it.

Chris
 
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