Why do you think we say Father?

wil

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It appears to me it was a sign of the times.

They lived in a maled dominated society, women had very few rights, husbands and fathers ruled the roost.

It would make sense to the people of that day that G-d was also male.

After all men were the leaders, the politicians, the providers....

thoughts?
 
If one goes back far enough in time in cultural anthropological studies one finds an equivalent and balancing presence of matriarchical and matrilineal organized societies among indigenous peoples around the world.

However, the desert peoples of the Near East were predominantly patriarchical and patrilineal in their heritage and that's where our modern concepts of G-d came from, beginning about 10,000 years ago. When city state societies started to spring up in the same parts of the world about 6,000 years ago (near east) they sowed the historical seeds for modern societal organizational structures. Hierarchical and militaristic command and control mechanisms were the central touchstones of these societies, and so it continues into the present.

flow....;)
 
You are right, flow, historically (or prehistorically) speaking. I have a thought to add, though, that presupposes a God who is involved in history in that "He" presented "Himself" in this way to these people in order to facilitate their understanding at the time. What do y'all think?

InPeace,
InLove
 
Do you think "He" presented himself?

Or do you think "He" was created in their image. With monotheism and the He-ness of it all we lost the goddess, modern thought aside our books pretty much if imply if you only have one the gender is male...and not only that but it has a gender.

It appears to me most religions are a method of laws which assist, in lieu of, or supercede Gov'ts....ie lacking Gov't ten commandments or 614 of em is handy...especially when they are overseen by an unseen power, who smites with nature.

You know we shrink away and do as told with the threat of the back of Dad's hand should we do wrong....well the big guy in the sky the back of his hand comes with tornadoes, floods, droughts and locusts...

Even today folks look at Tsunamis, Hurricanes, Floods and look skyward wondering what they did to deserve it...awful strong foothold this stuff.
 
Well, the male acts, and the female is acted upon. The monotheistic God is an action figure. He dangles his big penis down from heaven, waggles it around, and everything springs to life.

Chris
 
I just read in another post of yours in another thread your saying that you have no sacred cows...

proof huh?

tis scary though...the whole lareger than life anthropomorphic thing when you take it to its logical conclusion...now you got me thinking about the waste...
 
I read one time about Jung having a patient who he observed in a near catatonic state looking out of the window at the sun. Jung asked what he saw, and he said something about looking at the sun's penis hanging down in the sky. There was some connection there between schizophrenic visions and universal archetypes that I don't recall precisely.

All God concepts are anthropomorphic to some degree. God can't be a localized phenomena, much less a being and still be without end. So if we're really dressing It up like a paper doll in whatever way seems meaningful, why not have fun with It? Surely we don't believe that our little God construct is gonna get pissed if we mess up Its hair. Well, I don't.

Chris
 
Hey, here's an interesting factoid that's sorta related. Have you ever thought about Enoch being the Sun God? You know, a lot of those early mythological characters in Genesis were actually dieties until the monotheists sanitized everything. So, think about this: Enoch lived 365 "years". He "walked with God". And at the end of his life God "took him up." And he had a big...no, that's not in the story.

Chris
 
It appears to me it was a sign of the times.

They lived in a maled dominated society, women had very few rights, husbands and fathers ruled the roost.

It would make sense to the people of that day that G-d was also male.

After all men were the leaders, the politicians, the providers....

thoughts?
Hmm, regarding our changing views of God as a function of the sign of the times, or of our development: notice the line, "but as development takes place, it receives the different names," from the Tao Te Ching, chapter 1.
 
Just another thought--the repeated metaphor in the Bible which paints God as a mother hen. (I'm not saying God is poultry, okay?) But it does seem to point to the feminine characteristics of The Spirit.

InPeace,
InLove
 
Then there is "the ancient of days " character that keeps popping up in the OT. Might one equate this with the old guy behind the curtain perhaps ?

As I've mentioned elsewhere here, in the oldest folk representations of the G-d figure he/she is generally thought of and imagined as the "androgyne" having both male and female characteristics. This is the one that I believe societies are tending more towards these days. But then I suppose that's considered by some to be a liberal viewpoint.

I also see this issue as being related to the embryonic development thingy discussion that we had going on elsewhere in CR a month ago or so. Gender is a sliding spectrum of attributes that blur together at some points... except maybe for when big thingys dangle out of the clouds.

flow....:p
 
For me, the reason seems very much societal-cultural, as you have said, wil.

In various cultures, at various times, the Sacred Feminine has been revered as the Supreme aspect of Deity. To me, this is an equally valid observation, and we could just as well refer to God the Mother. I must admit, however, that I am a long way from *realizing* this balance in practice!

I think the conditioning of several thousands of years has shifted our focus to such a point that we are extremely lopsided in our spirituality ... at least in terms of the Judeo-Christian or Abrahamic focus on the Divine Masculine. Jehovah, which is one way to render the unpronounceable YHWH, is supposed to mean something like 'male-female,' as but one instance of the Elohim - a plural word anyway, not singular.

The Jewish tradition probably speaks to this more directly, but one thing seems clear: In most of the world's traditions, the Feminine is exalted equally with the Masculine, speaking from a strictly human point of view. There is even the occasional shining example of the focus on a Divine Mother, as in Sri Aurobindo's teachings, as well as the reverence given to Mary by the Catholic Church.

Note that in the Egyptian, as well as the Greek mythologies, female deities are often portrayed in equally prominent roles as male deities. The Roman counterparts, Minerva for Athena, Juno for Hera, continues this recognition, but it seems to me that as Egyptian religion yielded to Greek, and Greek finally to Roman, there was a definite if gradual shift toward a focus on the masculine more so than the feminine. Does anyone else seem to intuit, or feel this transition?

Also, should the Mithraic cult of Sol Invictus have superseded Christianity (as it nearly did), I think the focus on a male or masculine Deity would have been equally likely. The tradition would simply have stemmed from a different line of world cultures, or religions. And even as things have turned out, Mithraism is a HUGE influence in Christianity, almost even forming its backbone I would say. Again, male male male!

If the Chaldean-Mesopotamian-Hebrew religious traditions were evolving along similar lines, might this suggest some kind of external force at work? I don't mean to overlook the insight you've already provided, wil, I'm just curious about how the male-centric society evolved to begin with (a good question for several other threads, I imagine) ... and I'm not satisfied with the typical *Cave man Ugg hits cave woman Ugga with the club and says come make babies* theory. :p

Yeah, sure, this has something to do with it, but to put this in slightly more feminist terms, how did men come to be in charge, anyway? ;)

My own belief, since I think the Stars (and planets) have a tremendous amount to do with why religion is as it is ... is that most likely there have been some overwhelmingly, tremendously masculine energies at work, affecting and conditioning our concept(s) of Deity. Boil this down, and it's not only kinda practical, logical and obvious, it's irrefutable - doncha think?

Not that Venus doesn't figure in, but err - it's MARS.

Think: God of WAR, conflict, mmm - humanity's experience for about as long as history records, mmm - IRON, metals, weapons (also tools, technology, but not the SKILL to use them, this is Mercury, also Venus) ... and even the symbol of the planet itself, a PHALLUS??? Ah well, the lingam is an ancient holy symbol and icon in Hinduism, but even Siva has a CONSORT!!!

I am posting this midday on Wednesday, though if there is a moderator delay, I'm not sure when it might show up. Please note, however, that I composed it and left it sitting in the browser for about 24hrs. Only wil's post was there when I started, the 2nd post appeared as I was composing, then I just now refreshed to see what China Cat and others had said. My jaw dropped. I love synchronicity. :D

~Zag
 
Just another thought--the repeated metaphor in the Bible which paints God as a mother hen. (I'm not saying God is poultry, okay?) But it does seem to point to the feminine characteristics of The Spirit.

InPeace,
InLove

Hmmm...I wonder who was the rooster ? Got to be careful here...we're getting into French metaphors.

flow....;)
 
It appears to me it was a sign of the times.

They lived in a maled dominated society, women had very few rights, husbands and fathers ruled the roost.

It would make sense to the people of that day that G-d was also male.

After all men were the leaders, the politicians, the providers....

thoughts?

I know simplicty isnt in style anymore, but its all I have. God is called "Father" and "he" because that is the way He reveals Himself in scripture.
 
Just another thought--the repeated metaphor in the Bible which paints God as a mother hen. (I'm not saying God is poultry, okay?) But it does seem to point to the feminine characteristics of The Spirit.

InPeace,
InLove
that is just poetic description of how god loves, nothing to do with god being female.
 
BlaznFattyz said:
that is just poetic description of how god loves, nothing to do with god being female.

Yes, I realize it is a metaphorical layer. I was not arguing as to God's gender. I see God as encompassing all aspects, and the poetics in the Bible as revealing as the literal interpretations. :)

InPeace,
InLove
 
lol our mother hen who art in the barn....
hallow be thy golden egg.
Thy hot wings come...
Not TOO well done.
here at home, as goods as it is at pizza hut.
give us this day our daily Mc chicken burger in bread.
And forgive us for eating you.
As the cow also forgives us.
And lead us away from healthy food.
but deliver us to macdonalds
For thine is the kingdom.
and the shakes
and fries
for ever and ever...
BACKAAAH!!! (chicken noise....)

sorry... came off the top of my head... ;\
 
In some catholic countries the worship of the virgin Mary is huge, so much so that in practice Jesus ends up in the back seat.
My perception of this is that some people are much more comfortable dealing with a female form of authority, fathers are mistrusted or seen as too harsh/unloving.
It reminds of the scenario where the little child prefers to deal with mum instead of dad.

If we had a pantheistic religion, I would think that the choice of deity would have a lot to do with the eye of the beholder.
 
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