Hard topic...maybe?

Silas

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Do you think God loves everybody? What are you reasons for saying yes or saying no?

- Silas
 
god loves everybody, but because he is holy, not all can be in his presence.
 
God loves everyone.
That does not mean he will save everyone. Sorry he gave a very easy specific way to ensure your saved and with him but most of mankind refuse to pay attention, they are too worried about being on their own throne.
 
Yes, God is LOVE! But, does he love everyone? Does he love Satan?
 
IMO God loves everyone. (here's another clue)

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." Ephesians 1:4

Was he only speaking to the Ephesians? Before the foundation?
 
IMO God loves everyone. (here's another clue)

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." Ephesians 1:4

Was he only speaking to the Ephesians? Before the foundation?

That verse, in my opinion, is speaking of saved people (throughout all time - past, present, and future). I get that from the context. Now, does God hate anyone? What about scriptures like:

"The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates." - Psa 11:5

"Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." - Lev 20:23​

"Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."—Romans 9:13​

There are more, but I think these are sufficent for now. How do you guys reconicle the fact that though God is love, He still hates? I understand it as thus: Since God is Love, by that very defination, he must hate. In other words, if you love children, you will hate child molesters, and if you love God, you will hate sin and Satan.​
 
Ideas like `G-d' and `hate' do not mix. They are like oil and water.

Hate is an emotional extreme; love is not an emotion at all. Affection is the closest equivalent, or perhaps sympathy. These are the reflections of unconditional Love within the world of emotions.

But then, haven't we simply created our God in the anthropomorphized image of an imperfect human, Silas? :eek:

Has not God set forth the Creation, that all might come to increasing Perfection ... and even learn to Love without limits?

Even the ancient Greeks had a better conception of Deity than we see so prevalent today! Even the colloquialized versions, the warring, jealous demi-gods, made more sense than the god of hate which still terrorizes ... and haunts little children. Foolish people frighten their children with this spectre, and it is no god at all.

When the Holy Bible is read with such a dead-letter, literal interpretation that "hate" and "jealous" and "fear" cannot be understood in context, this book ceases to be Holy. We remove it altogether from the Light of understanding and Inspiration. The `Holy Spirit' has no room to work, if within our hearts and minds we replace Love with Hate.

Hate closes doors, and creates division. Love opens doors, and even as affection or sympathy, a conduit is opened to something greater. Forgiveness - which is part of what we are here to learn - can heal the deepest of wounds. But if we are still stuck within the imaginary world of an imaginary god of hate ... truly a tyrant, a Satan if ever there was one ... then no wonder we will accuse our brother, and delight in pronouncing judgment. No wonder we will feel that we are on a crusade - self-appointed, god-endorsed - to cure the world of unrighteousness.

The place we need to start, methinks, is with this notion of a god of hate - which we have, perhaps unwittingly and unknowingly - allowed to find a foothold within our heart & mind. No amount of Bible study, no amount of Scriptural analysis, and no amount of denial can bring us closer to understanding (or to God), while this misconception is still lodged within the pathways of Right Understanding, and Right Relationship ... between ourselves and the Lord our God, and between man and fellow man.

Hard topic? Yes. You bet ... and that's because you are confronting Satan directly. Satan, simply put, is the spirit of hate, of division (or divisiveness), of that which opposes spiritual purpose and progress. This god of hate, then, is that what you wanted to bring to Light, Silas?

It is no less than Satan, none other than "evil." And this is a wonderful service, to get this out into the open. This is not the Christian God. This is no God at all.

God is Love. And Love is like the warm rays of Sunlight, which shine upon the cold, frozen surface of a pond ... melting the ice, warming the waters, and heating every single molecule of water alike. Does the heat, and warmth, and light, STOP - and suddenly say to itself, "Gee, this water is just too cold - I WAS going to warm it, but I'm afraid it's too cold, even for ME, for Warmth and Heat Itself!" :confused:

No, Silas. God doesn't work like that. People sometimes "give up" (for awhile). God does not give up. And with the Spirit of the Lord, ALL THINGS are possible. This much, I know. :)

~zagreus
 
Ideas like `G-d' and `hate' do not mix. They are like oil and water.

Hate is an emotional extreme; love is not an emotion at all. Affection is the closest equivalent, or perhaps sympathy. These are the reflections of unconditional Love within the world of emotions.

But then, haven't we simply created our God in the anthropomorphized image of an imperfect human, Silas? :eek:

Has not God set forth the Creation, that all might come to increasing Perfection ... and even learn to Love without limits?

Even the ancient Greeks had a better conception of Deity than we see so prevalent today! Even the colloquialized versions, the warring, jealous demi-gods, made more sense than the god of hate which still terrorizes ... and haunts little children. Foolish people frighten their children with this spectre, and it is no god at all.

When the Holy Bible is read with such a dead-letter, literal interpretation that "hate" and "jealous" and "fear" cannot be understood in context, this book ceases to be Holy. We remove it altogether from the Light of understanding and Inspiration. The `Holy Spirit' has no room to work, if within our hearts and minds we replace Love with Hate.

Hate closes doors, and creates division. Love opens doors, and even as affection or sympathy, a conduit is opened to something greater. Forgiveness - which is part of what we are here to learn - can heal the deepest of wounds. But if we are still stuck within the imaginary world of an imaginary god of hate ... truly a tyrant, a Satan if ever there was one ... then no wonder we will accuse our brother, and delight in pronouncing judgment. No wonder we will feel that we are on a crusade - self-appointed, god-endorsed - to cure the world of unrighteousness.

The place we need to start, methinks, is with this notion of a god of hate - which we have, perhaps unwittingly and unknowingly - allowed to find a foothold within our heart & mind. No amount of Bible study, no amount of Scriptural analysis, and no amount of denial can bring us closer to understanding (or to God), while this misconception is still lodged within the pathways of Right Understanding, and Right Relationship ... between ourselves and the Lord our God, and between man and fellow man.

Hard topic? Yes. You bet ... and that's because you are confronting Satan directly. Satan, simply put, is the spirit of hate, of division (or divisiveness), of that which opposes spiritual purpose and progress. This god of hate, then, is that what you wanted to bring to Light, Silas?

It is no less than Satan, none other than "evil." And this is a wonderful service, to get this out into the open. This is not the Christian God. This is no God at all.

God is Love. And Love is like the warm rays of Sunlight, which shine upon the cold, frozen surface of a pond ... melting the ice, warming the waters, and heating every single molecule of water alike. Does the heat, and warmth, and light, STOP - and suddenly say to itself, "Gee, this water is just too cold - I WAS going to warm it, but I'm afraid it's too cold, even for ME, for Warmth and Heat Itself!" :confused:

No, Silas. God doesn't work like that. People sometimes "give up" (for awhile). God does not give up. And with the Spirit of the Lord, ALL THINGS are possible. This much, I know. :)

~zagreus

How come you always write so much? By the way, this has nothing to do with anthropomorphism, but instead to do with what God revealed in His word. God does hate. He hates sin because He is love. God's hate isnt like human hate, which is to say that it is prompted by some fickle emotion. Rather, God's hate is a holy hate. God abhors everything wicked and evil. And yes, that does include man. The fact that God saves the objections of his wrath - namely man, is a testimony to His great mercy. We should praise God for the fact that He loves us because he chooses to. If God were to look within you to find something where which he would love you, he would not find anything. Instead the opposite is true. He would only find reason to hate you, and rightly so. Thats a hard saying, Im sure. But, its true nonetheless. Jutapose your goodness in light of God's holliness and superimpose the two to get a glimpse of how bad you are. I'm conviced that this is the only way you'll understand Jesus' sacrifice (to some degree).
 
God does hate. He hates sin because He is love. God's hate isnt like human hate, which is to say that it is prompted by some fickle emotion. Rather, God's hate is a holy hate. God abhors everything wicked and evil. And yes, that does include man.
No, Silas, here is where you're going down a slippery slope. "Hating sin," okay. I'm with you there. If we must use words like `hate' and `abhor,' then at least it helps keep straight for us that Virtue draws us closer to God's Presence, while engaging in vice (especially if intentionally) creates a gulf. But you take this one step too far.

WE PAY the penalty of indulging in our vices; WE deny ourselves the benefits of God's Presence. The Sun does not draw closer to Planet Earth when everyone bows down and proclaims God's "name," while distancing itself if we act out in corruption. Let's be clear.

God remains unmoved ... and there is NO SUCH THING as a "holy hate." There is only a FITNESS which enables us to come into God's Presence, vs. BEING OUT OF SHAPE, spiritually, so to speak. We tend to see this in the physical world as quite negative, especially if we are very much out of shape, but there is no MAGIC PERSON sitting there in the sky, hovering over the track, raining down thunderbolts and scoffing at us because we can't jog fifty laps, much less denying us the ability to do so, via an act of His Will.

You see? YOU decide your physical fitness, and YOU either take steps to improve it, or you let it go. And this is true of the spiritual ... save that if you do nothing, you get nowhere. You make it sound like there's someone sitting there with a stopwatch, waiting to see you run the 500 ... while time's running out for you to GET IN SHAPE AND bust a move out there on the track.

Rong. R O N G - Rong. ;) :p

I'd agree that we do not have infinite time. Even God has a time schedule. But God is also a God of Reason, and Fairness, and Understanding and Forgiveness. We will surely be held accountable for our every shortcoming, but we will only be judged more severely for those shortcomings, or in those ares, where we KNEW BETTER and failed to act, or acted wrongly. Ignorance of the Law is no excuse, but God has - A) an amazing patience, which something tells me you have not yet realized .... and B) a WONDERFUL sense of Humor, which I think we are ALL slowly starting to realize.

Please get off the angry-god, fire & brimstone trip. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself. It's really kind of a bummer, man. As Oddball used to say, in Kelly's Heroes, "Quit with those negative waves, man ... " :p :)

In LOVE and LIGHT,

~Zagreus
 
No, Silas, here is where you're going down a slippery slope. "Hating sin," okay. I'm with you there. If we must use words like `hate' and `abhor,' then at least it helps keep straight for us that Virtue draws us closer to God's Presence, while engaging in vice (especially if intentionally) creates a gulf. But you take this one step too far.

WE PAY the penalty of indulging in our vices; WE deny ourselves the benefits of God's Presence. The Sun does not draw closer to Planet Earth when everyone bows down and proclaims God's "name," while distancing itself if we act out in corruption. Let's be clear.

God remains unmoved ... and there is NO SUCH THING as a "holy hate." There is only a FITNESS which enables us to come into God's Presence, vs. BEING OUT OF SHAPE, spiritually, so to speak. We tend to see this in the physical world as quite negative, especially if we are very much out of shape, but there is no MAGIC PERSON sitting there in the sky, hovering over the track, raining down thunderbolts and scoffing at us because we can't jog fifty laps, much less denying us the ability to do so, via an act of His Will.

You see? YOU decide your physical fitness, and YOU either take steps to improve it, or you let it go. And this is true of the spiritual ... save that if you do nothing, you get nowhere. You make it sound like there's someone sitting there with a stopwatch, waiting to see you run the 500 ... while time's running out for you to GET IN SHAPE AND bust a move out there on the track.

Rong. R O N G - Rong. ;) :p

I'd agree that we do not have infinite time. Even God has a time schedule. But God is also a God of Reason, and Fairness, and Understanding and Forgiveness. We will surely be held accountable for our every shortcoming, but we will only be judged more severely for those shortcomings, or in those ares, where we KNEW BETTER and failed to act, or acted wrongly. Ignorance of the Law is no excuse, but God has - A) an amazing patience, which something tells me you have not yet realized .... and B) a WONDERFUL sense of Humor, which I think we are ALL slowly starting to realize.

Please get off the angry-god, fire & brimstone trip. You aren't fooling anyone but yourself. It's really kind of a bummer, man. As Oddball used to say, in Kelly's Heroes, "Quit with those negative waves, man ... " :p :)

In LOVE and LIGHT,

~Zagreus

OK, we might be getting somewhere now? You agree with me that God hates sin. Fine. Well, what is in the sinner other than sin according to the Bible (not according to your own idea)?
 
OK, we might be getting somewhere now? You agree with me that God hates sin. Fine. Well, what is in the sinner other than sin according to the Bible (not according to your own idea)?
I'm sorry, Silas, not gonna play this game. Thank for the invite; I have no interest in scripture-picking with you though. Cheers to you ... good luck with the crusade.

ciao,

~zag
 
I'm sorry, Silas, not gonna play this game. Thank for the invite; I have no interest in scripture-picking with you though. Cheers to you ... good luck with the crusade.

ciao,

~zag

Peace!
 
Now, does God hate anyone? What about scriptures like:

"The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates." - Psa 11:5

"Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." - Lev 20:23​

"Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."—Romans 9:13​


There are more, but I think these are sufficent for now. How do you guys reconicle the fact that though God is love, He still hates? I understand it as thus: Since God is Love, by that very defination, he must hate. In other words, if you love children, you will hate child molesters, and if you love God, you will hate sin and Satan.​

This makes a persuasive argument, Silas. I'm listening...

What about 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."

p.s. I tend to agree with Zag on this one...
 
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Here's a thought...

If G-d made us in His image, did he make us to hate? On purpose?
 
This makes a persuasive argument, Silas. I'm listening...

What about 1 John 1:5 "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all."


I affairm that scripture. God hating does not contradict God being light and having no hate. I think the misunderstanding people have is that they assume God to "hate" as humans hate. Unlike God, we humans hate based on fickle emotions and from sin. God's hate is a holy hate coming from a essence of pure love. He is perfect, therefore he hates anything opposite to to love, goodness, and imperfection. Look at Amos 3:6 for example: "Does disaster come to a city, unless the Lord has done it?" People assume that God stands behind evil as we humans do. For God to bring about evil or disaster is not evil, for He is good and does nothing but what is good, fair, and just.
 
Here's a thought...

If G-d made us in His image, did he make us to hate? On purpose?

God created us for His glory (Isaiah 43:1-7). He created us knowing that we'd sin and cause all the world's ills. He did it because He knew that he was going to do something so amazing that for all time he'd be praised for it. He became a man and suffered the wrath due to sinful men and offered salvation only by grace through faith in Him, whereby He'd get the glory and the recipients, the joy, which is the best of both world. God created everything for a purpose as the scripture tells us. Note Prov. 16:4..."The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of destruction."
 
God's hate is a holy hate coming from a essence of pure love.
I don't get this at all...:confused:

Sorry. What I was trying to convey is that God is Perfect and anything opposite his perfect nature is cause for His hate. Like the good man who loves children hates child molestors, the good God of the universe hates sin. Is there anything you hate - rats, roaches, crime, anything? God hates sin more than that.

Is it hard to fathom God hating for you?
 
God's hate is a holy hate coming from a essence of pure love.

Sorry. What I was trying to convey is that God is Perfect and anything opposite his perfect nature is cause for His hate. Like the good man who loves children hates child molestors, the good God of the universe hates sin. Is there anything you hate - rats, roaches, crime, anything? God hates sin more than that.

Is it hard to fathom God hating for you?

Yeah, really hard...:)
 
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