gratitude....

Discussion in 'Science and the Universe' started by wil, Mar 13, 2007.

  1. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    It is obviously an individual belief. If one is OK with (or even if your not) with folks being grateful to G!d, or Allah, or Krishna, or whichever deity we should (IMO) accept folks non belief or gratefulness to the universe, chance,.gravity, or whatever.
     
  2. The Artis Magistra

    The Artis Magistra Member

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    I mainly want to understand how they do it or how it processes in their mind or what it means.

    When people say Allah or God or whatever, many are thinking of different things, and when non-believers talk of these things, they also are often seeming to think of sort of Zeusy image type cartoony figures that they expect others might subscribe to which they don't.

    For me though, I can describe in detail that what I am grateful to is some kind of responsible force for bringing about anything in the macro sense and immediate micro sense down the line as well as immediately, one great mechanism that I view as hyper conscious like my mind multiplied and encompassing all information and consciousness. Its something I can talk to and which in some way is expected to register what is said even as it is thought to have produced it in the first, the One Big Me that I'm a small part of. Its also the same thing that whispers stuff to me I shouldn't know or be able to predict, which give it a "super" impression of having some sort of extra ability which I don't consciously have or control (at least in no way knowingly).

    When people are sick, in the middle of nowhere, with no one around, and they scream "Please Help Me!" they are typically talking to this thing, this great big ever-presence or imaginary atmosphere that seems to be the go to in emergency freak out type desperate reactions. That thing, even without any sophisticated theology or reasoning behind it or name edits, seems to be a widely known and understood feeling and idea, even without an image or face or gender, the great Call Line when a person says "Help!" or "Thank You!" in the middle of nowhere to apparently Nothing. That is everyone's natural and first God, it seems, before much brainwashing, and is similar to our own thoughts or mind that we might also talk to, but seems also to be external to us or our heads even though our heads and thoughts are all we ever really deal with directly.

    I think even Atheists might deal with that thing or that impression sometimes, or at least in language, before sometimes snapping themselves out of it and remembering that God can only ever mean a stupid cartoon that stupid people subscribe to, and that nothing hears their cries or responds to them, that out in the middle of nowhere, there is no help, and that people are expected to have died out in the middle of nowhere even as they called out and pleaded for help like a dying insect on their back, and simply starved to death, remaining as open mouthed skeletons crying out to what wasn't even there to hear or help them. Why be grateful and how shall we do it? No matter what is given credit, its terrible failures to do whatever everyone ever wants it to do might be enough to make us likewise turn away from speaking to it as a disciplined protest (and how stupid is it to protest against something that isn't even there to care).

    So how does one practice Godless gratitude, and why should they once the technique is described? Probably because it makes one feel good or better to think on the good things and be pleased about them. In that case, it likewise makes some people feel good to think or do many strange or unreasonable things, and so long as they don't threaten us or step on our toes as to invoke War, they should simply do whatever at all makes them happy? However untrue, unrealistic, or personally dangerous?

    Well regardless of what we might think, that seems to actively be the case as it is now.

    The world of mankind is Libertarian and Libertine even as it obstructs itself with its obstructing checks and balances.

    Some people talk about being grateful, and they mean to be grateful to what they say is nothing, but just doing it, even to pray, again to nothing though. It boggles my very simplistic mind which requires the forms to be filled or else an error comes up and I can't complete the registration.

    Are the people who believe in nothing "to" be grateful towards excluded from gratefulness, or are they secretly talking to God?
     
  3. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    By doing things which increase the general amount of gratitude in the world. Makes the world a nicer place for me to be gratefully living in, too.

    I mean, someone is being helpful, or doing something nice, I can be helpful and nice, myself, right? Gratitude does not have to be tit for tat.

    Expressing gratitude in a prayer is nice, as is spreading the immeasurables of love, compassion, being happy for someone, and equanimity. Or making nice music, or helping out of solidarity. People are inventive and creative in their urge to express gratitude.
     
  4. The Artis Magistra

    The Artis Magistra Member

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    Very excellent and ingenius. So by increasing the good potential for positive reactions and responses by increasing the chances someone or something will be happier and less distressed, we increase the overall quantity and likelihood of positive or pleased feelings, which eventually multiplies as it spreads and touches others. It works similarly in the opposite as well, or is expected to, for example littering and then someone has to bend and pick it up and that adds to their stress then they snap at someone a bit and so on. Like a battle between good and evil fought in even the smallest levels. By producing pleasing things one spreads good feelings which then influence people to be better feeling, even if they erroneously at times respond in a way which might increase distress, one can attempt to fight these efforts with countering it with grace and beneficence that teaches and spreads more good, as fighting fire with fire might only increase the overall amount of fire in general and cause much burning.

    Sounds great, even reasonable. The only problem with it might be that like interest or fractional amounts in banking, which may eventually add up to trillions, it often remains unseen and people have no hope that any good comes out of patience and restraint, and so instead of the long haul, they seek something they can see for certain or which appears much more quickly to work. The same reason dieting, exercise, or any routines with prolonged repartition necessary can seem tedious and exhausting to people, because the reward may never seem to come or people might even doubt it exists.

    I too, also lack a bit of faith in this, even though I've thought of similar things myself. I've mostly seen my good deeds seem to count in a pretty small way but once it gets bigger, it seems like I am just superstitiously connecting it rather than there being anything clear about a series of events, just immediate good actions and reactions, bad actions and reactions, though technically its expected to have an echo or rippling effect and generate waves.
     
  5. Cino

    Cino Big Love! (Atheist mystic)

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    That's not what gratitude feels like, to me, "I'm grateful, what a rewarding feeling, now I want more of it". More like, "What a relief! I want to give voice to that sense of relief!".

    Is that really how gratitude is for you, a sense of reward? Not judging, just curious about the variety of human experience.
     
  6. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I don't believe I feel relief or reward....but yes joyful, appreciative. And I don't see(how do I put this) the need to put more than the universe, the people involved the science. I am thankful the cold, flu, sprain, did not get any worse, ran its course, not that some deity intervened or blessed me.

    I am recovering from open heart surgery. I am grateful to my housemate, to the invention of 911, to the ambulance ride and drivers, the MRI and the decision to fly me to Baltimore by helicopter, literally thousands of real people and thousands of real dollars and hundreds of inventions and hundreds of years of time were involved in my luck of being born in a timer where my aorta could be replaced and the subsequent issues identified and handled... I feel no need to create a supernatural being to acknowledge all that occurred.
     
  7. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Staff Member

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    I'm not sure if you live with a nonhuman housemate as well (studies have shown that :kitty:s/dogs/etc. are beneficial to people recovering from heart attacks/open heart surgeries as well as other major surgeries, even speeding up the recovery time iirc.)

    I know from personal/purrsonal experience that animals can "sense" medical emergencies, sometimes even before machines can (as I've posted before [I think].)

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  8. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    No animals for me, for now. I've had dogs,.cats, snakes,.Guinea pigs, farm animals...fish... Uptil the heart issue I was known to go off.and live in the woods for a couple weeks, hitch across country on a whim, head to a protest and risk jail time, friend need someone to share driving on a month vacation....let's go...a life not conducive to being responsible for another life.
     
  9. StevePame

    StevePame Administrator

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    But very conducive for amazing stories :)
     
  10. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    The kids were off to college, what was I supposed to do?
     
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  11. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Staff Member

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    There may be a :kitty: café or two near you. For a small additional fee, you get to spend an hour playing with :kitty:s that are up for adoption with no obligation on your part.

    If that prospect is out of the question, please disregard. :oops:

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  12. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    I have friends who allow creatures to control their time, budgets, sleep cycles, laundry, carpet cleaning, and emotions. Visiting them is more than enough for me, why pay for the cow when you can get the milk for free, my mother taught me....maybe that was about something else.
     
  13. Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine Junior Moderator, Intro Staff Member

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    :kitty: delegation's giving wil a collective "dirty look"...

    Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    Well I left home end of august...if I had any they'd be giving me Schroedinger looks right now, and I'd have to sweep them out when I returned next month..

    I am compassionate, caring and know my lifestyle therefore don't burden critters with dealing with me.
     
  15. Namaste Jesus

    Namaste Jesus Praise the Lord and Enjoy the Chai Staff Member

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    I trust animals, particularly cats much more than their human counterparts. For the comfort and sense of purpose they provide me, I am especially grateful...
     

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