veiws on homosexuality...........

C

clearamericanboy

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as a christian i veiw homosexuality/gay marraige a sin but yet some christians agree with it but the bible clearly states marraige is intended for a man and woman,and i veiw homosexuality as a perversion of true love, but i wanna hear mostly other christians opinions, other religions welcome too,
 
with all the whole Gay marraige issues and stuff in the american government, with leagalizing gay marraiges, i was just wondering if there were any christians who feel that it is ok to be gay? because my g/f thinks its ok, and i dont uderstand why, and i'm sure you know how girls are they usually cant explain anything in an understandible way,lol,
 
i think its an issue that can ultamatly split the nation or even christianity............... possibly
 
clearamericanboy said:
with all the whole Gay marraige issues and stuff in the american government, with leagalizing gay marraiges, i was just wondering if there were any christians who feel that it is ok to be gay? because my g/f thinks its ok, and i dont uderstand why, and i'm sure you know how girls are they usually cant explain anything in an understandible way,lol,
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:D
Fair enough

In answer to your question, I was raised a Christian and taught that homosexuality was a perversion caused by the devil. Now I don't know. I guess I say that even if it is something we shouldn't do, if the people who who do it firmly believe that they are ok with God, then God (at least the one I believe in) would be ok with them.
Personally, I am grateful I don't need to think about it too much.
 
If you really want a "Christian-only" perspective on this, you should probably post on the Christian board. As this is the politics and society section, I feel free to comment.

To say homosexuality is a perversion or sin is only to demonstrate your own ignorance. Also your opinion of women being unable to "explain anything in an understandible way" (by the way, genius, you misspelled understandable--and lots of other things) serves to further demonstrate your own ignorance. Maybe you are the one who is unintelligent, if you think all women in general are unintelligable. Can you fit your mind around that?

Look, I know I am coming off as hostile, but this is an issue that hits close to home for me, and (this is something that you should really be aware of) your homophobia is no less hostile, although it may be more accepted and normalized in society at large.

Let's get one thing straight: the "true love" that you speak of as being reserved for only a man and a woman knows no boundaries--not gender, not color, not religious creed. My thoughts on gender are already posted here.

You say you don't understand why gay marriage is "okay." I want to know why it is not "okay." There are certain legal benefits that come with marriage, like sharing an insurance policy. That's the big one if you ask me, especially given the increasing difficulty of getting insurance unless you work full-time at some big company. Why should that and other legal benefits be reserved for heterosexual couples? Because your bible says so? That ain't gonna fly. So why? Because homosexuals are somehow less worthy?

Educate, educate, educate yourself on this issue, please. I am glad you posted your question, and I hope you can stretch your imagination and pull yourself out of the box of prejudice you are trapped in.
 
Hi again, clear. This has nothing to do with the issue at hand, but I wanted to suggest that you could post a bit about yourself and receive a welcome from various people over on the Introductions board (located right below the lounge).

Peace,
Pathless
 
Pathless said:
To say homosexuality is a perversion or sin is only to demonstrate your own ignorance.
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why must this be the case? You must bear in mind that your views are also subjective.
Pathless said:
Also your opinion of women being unable to "explain anything in an understandible way" (by the way, genius, you misspelled understandable--and lots of other things) serves to further demonstrate your own ignorance. Maybe you are the one who is unintelligent, if you think all women in general are unintelligable. Can you fit your mind around that?
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Easy dude, he's joking

Pathless said:
Look, I know I am coming off as hostile, but this is an issue that hits close to home for me, and (this is something that you should really be aware of) your homophobia is no less hostile, although it may be more accepted and normalized in society at large.

Let's get one thing straight: the "true love" that you speak of as being reserved for only a man and a woman knows no boundaries--not gender, not color, not religious creed. My thoughts on gender are already posted here.

You say you don't understand why gay marriage is "okay." I want to know why it is not "okay." There are certain legal benefits that come with marriage, like sharing an insurance policy. That's the big one if you ask me, especially given the increasing difficulty of getting insurance unless you work full-time at some big company. Why should that and other legal benefits be reserved for heterosexual couples? Because your bible says so? That ain't gonna fly. So why? Because homosexuals are somehow less worthy?

Educate, educate, educate yourself on this issue, please. I am glad you posted your question, and I hope you can stretch your imagination and pull yourself out of the box of prejudice you are trapped in.
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Yes, you are coming off as hostile, and I can't help but feel that you're attacking the wrong person. He's a guy who doesn't understand how or why homosexuality could be ok and he's come on here to ask people to state their case. You tell him to educate himself, it seems to me he's trying to.
 
Yes, I realize that he is asking the question to get different perspecitves and to educate himself. That is why I let him know my perspective and encouraged him to further look into the issue.

My tone is the way it is because I am frustrated. My frustrations are with a social/educational/economic system that perpetuates ignorance and unexamined assumptions, some of which clear is operating in. While that may not be any one person's fault, I feel it's important for me to counter these expressions of ignorance. I do it now in the way I do because it causes people to perk up their ears.

And is he joking, really? Clear, are you joking about women being dumb and your religion being the only true one (now I am reading between the lines in all of your posts, I realize). And does it matter if you are joking? To me, it's not funny. And I have a good sense of humor.
 
Without reading between the lines, I can see that you think your way of thinking is the only true one Pathless
 
CAN YOU NOW????

You have no idea.

I am not going to get into this with you. Suffice it to say that whatever you are judging me for, that is fine and you can enjoy that perception. Rightly so, and I deserve it for jumping all over and judging the new guy.

That's cool.

Peace,
Pathless
 
As a Christian and speaking for myself...The only thing I can live by is what the bible says about anything.. Because the bible tells me its wrong I will do whatever I can to make sure that I adhere to that fact. Ive attended Mayday for Marriage and Ive signed petitions I vote for people that are against legalizing same sex marriages and yes I would do more if I could and that includes making it possible for same sex couples from adopting. That makes me intolerant to some people.. but to be honest.. biblical Christianity is anything but tolerable of things like this. I take comfort in the fact that in the end times what is good will be considered bad and what is bad will be considered good.
 
The Bible has very little to say about homosexuality and a considerable amount to say about pederasty and temple prostitution. Gay marriage harms no one, unlike the pederastic priests of some Christian Denominations who have for countless years preyed on their parishioners.

kiwimac
 
The problem with gay marriage is that it so often results in a nasty argument over who gets to wear the dress.

No, the real question is whether government can show cause to establish a benefit for a limited class. Remember, government can discreminate so long as it can show sufficient cause. We can have an all male army, for instance, if government so chooses. We have affirmative action, Title 9, subsidies for farmers... all discriminatory. Some are "entitled" to the benefit, but not all.

Marriage is a special class. A marriage license creates, as far as the state is concerned, a two-person incorporation of funds and liabilities. So the question really is: can the state show sufficient cause to establish a special heterosexual only marriage class? Is it in the national interest? Does it redress some financial, or sociocultural imbalance?

Chris
 
Pathless said:
CAN YOU NOW????

You have no idea.

I am not going to get into this with you. Suffice it to say that whatever you are judging me for, that is fine and you can enjoy that perception. Rightly so, and I deserve it for jumping all over and judging the new guy.

That's cool.

Peace,
Pathless
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It has to irritate you when someone storms into a room passing judgement without basis, asserting his superiority by looking down on others and calling them ignorant, then leaves and has the gall to try to claim the moral high ground.

You ask people for respect and yet will not give it yourself, so no, it's not cool.

You said that your rant would perk up people's ears, the only effect it has had has been to perk up my anger against your cause, and on this issue I usually argue on your side.
 
cavalier said:
It has to irritate you when someone storms into a room passing judgement without basis, asserting his superiority by looking down on others and calling them ignorant, then leaves and has the gall to try to claim the moral high ground.
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That's fair enough. Similarly, I admit to being irritated by clearamericanboy's recent posts on this forum, which to me comes across as him expressing judgement on others. You may not sense this, but I do, and to me it is a tangible thing, even if it is an undercurrent in his posts and is not (as of yet) openly expressed. And this is what I was responding to, and I consciously chose to respond to it in the way that I did. I gave him no respect because I don't believe he has respect for people that are different from him. You may think that I assume too much, and like I said, that's cool--you are entitled to that opinion.

cavalier said:
You ask people for respect and yet will not give it yourself, so no, it's not cool.
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No, cavalier, that is not true. I do give many people respect. I did not give clear respect in this situation. That much is true. I did it consciously and willingly.

cavalier said:
You said that your rant would perk up people's ears, the only effect it has had has been to perk up my anger against your cause, and on this issue I usually argue on your side.
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Sorry about that.
 
Pathless said:
. Similarly, I admit to being irritated by clearamericanboy's recent posts on this forum, which to me comes across as him expressing judgement on others.
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Contemplating...is that our problem or his?

Plenty of judgemental folks in the world....wonder who could cast the first stone. Now we can argue degrees...but judgement is judgement...whether he judges a groups behaviour or we judge his judging behaviour. Gotta watch we don't step in the traps we just set.

But what I'm contemplating is it the homophobe's problem or ours. Is it the racist's problem or ours. Now it can be argued that when it turns violent or discriminatory it becomes our problem...or that one's speech may lead to hate speech, may lead to discrimination, may lead to violence....but at the same time we wish not to have our free speech or free expression censored...yet we wish to censor others?
 
Honestly, I don't think I am trying to censor anyone. I am speaking my mind and being rude about it, apparently. I am not trying to silence anyone, but I am trying to get people to think deeply about issues.

As far as whose problem being irritated is, I hear ya. The responsibility does fall on me to gage my temper and responses. Experience to this point has taught me, though, that sometimes vitriol and spitting are more appropriate than flowers and ingratiating myself, trying not to step on the toes of the person who is walking all over me. I'm still new at being obnoxious, loud, and disrespectful. Maybe experience will teach me a better way. Or maybe I will refine my technique.

Yes, racism and homophobia are problems for me, as are other things. Do I choose to make them my problems? No, I don't think so. They effect me as such. They cause me pain. Because of this, I do choose to make them my causes. Sometimes in doing so I find myself vehemently opposed to other people's opinions, especially when they seem uninformed or not well thought-out.

Does this make me better than other people? Do I come across as being an arrogant ass? Maybe I do appear that way at times. When I do, I don't think that's an indication of "me" as much as an interaction. I reflect back to others the pain and insult that I feel. This doesn't make me a big man, and it is a form of violence. As much as I love Gandhi and MLK, I don't have the exact same toolbox that they do, and I have borrowed a monkey wrench and lead pipe from Malcolm X. I have many non-violent tools, too! Sometimes one just seems more appropriate for a situation than another.

Peace,
Pathless
 
kiwimac said:
The Bible has very little to say about homosexuality and a considerable amount to say about pederasty and temple prostitution. Gay marriage harms no one, unlike the pederastic priests of some Christian Denominations who have for countless years preyed on their parishioners.

kiwimac
Click to expand...

Yeah Ive been hearing about that bible...
 
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