The real cause of Islamic terrorism - the yogic perspective

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by niranjan, Mar 29, 2007.

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  1. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    Here is an excerpt from the Indian spiritual genius and savant Swami Vivekananda’s (1863-1902) book ‘ Raja Yoga’.



    " We find , in studying history, one fact held in common by all the great teachers of religion the world ever had . They all claim to have got their truths from beyond, only many of them did not know where they got them from. For instance, one would say that an angel came down in the form of a human being, with wings, and said to him, “Hear, O man, this is the message”.Another says that a Deva, a bright being, appeared to him. A third says he dreamed that his ancestor came and told him certain things. He did not know anything beyond that .But this is common that all claim that this knowledge has come to them from beyond, not through their reasoning power. What does the science of Yoga teach? It teaches that they were right in claiming that all this knowledge came to them from beyond reasoning, but that it came from within themselves.

    The Yogi teaches that the mind itself has a higher state of existence, beyond reason, a superconscious state, and when the mind gets to that higher state,then this knowledge, beyond reasoning, comes to man . Metaphysical and transcendental knowledge comes to that man .This state of going beyond reason, transcending ordinary human nature, may sometimes come by chance to a man who does not understand its science; he , as it were, stumbles upon it. When he stumbles upon it, he generally interprets it as coming from outside. So this explains why an inspiration, or transcendental knowledge, may be the same in different countries, but in one country it will seem to come through an angel, and in another through a Deva, and in a third through God. What does it mean? It means that the mind brought the knowledge by its own nature, and that the finding of the knowledge was interpreted according to the belief and education of the person through whom it came. The real fact is that these various men, as it were, stumbled upon this superconscious state.

    The Yogi says there is a great danger in stumbling upon this state. In a good many cases there is the danger of the brain being deranged, and , as a rule, you will find that all those men, however great they were, who had stumbled upon this superconscious state, without understanding it, groped in the dark, and generally had, along with their knowledge, some quaint superstition. They opened themselves to hallucinations. Mohammed claimed that the Angel Gabriel came to him in a cave one day and took him on the heavenly horse, Harak, and he visited the heavens. But with all that , Mohammed spoke some wonderful truths. If you read the Koran, you find the most wonderful truths mixed with superstitions. How will you explain it? That man was inspired, no doubt, but that inspiration was, as it were, stumbled upon. He was not a trained Yogi, and did not know the reason of what he was doing. Think of the good Mohammed did to the world, and think of the great evil that has been done through his fanaticism! Think of the millions massacred through his teachings, mothers bereft of their children, children made orphans, whole countries destroyed, millions upon millions of people killed!

    So we see this danger by studying the lives of great teachers like Mohammed and others. Yet we find, at the same time , that they were all inspired. Whenever a prophet got into the superconscious state by heightening his emotional nature, he brought away from it not only some truths, but some fanaticism also, some superstition which injured the world as much as the greatness of the teaching helped. To get any reason out of the mass of incongruity we call human life, we have to transcend our reason, but we must do it scientifically , slowly, by regular practice, and we must cast off all superstition .We must take up the study of the superconscious state just as any other science. On reason we must have to lay our foundation, we must follow reason as far as it leads, and when reason fails, reason itself will show us the way to the highest plane. When you hear a man say, “I am inspired” , and then talk irrationally, reject it. Why? Because these three states-instinct, reason, and superconsciousness , or the unconscious, conscious, and superconscious states-belong to one and the same mind. There are not three minds in one man, but one state of it develops into the others. Instinct develops into reason, and reason into the transcendental consciousness; therefore, not one of the states contradicts the others. Real inspiration never contradicts reason, but fulfils it. Just as you find the great prophets saying, “ I come not to destroy but to fulfil” , so inspiration always comes to fulfil reason, and is in harmony with it."
     
  2. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    Here is an another excerpt from Swami Vivekananda's 'Raja Yoga' dealing with the subject of superconsciousness or enlightenment.

    "When I eat food, I do it consciously; when I assimilate it, I do it unconsciously. When the food is manufactured into blood, it is done unconsciously.When out of the blood all the different parts of my body are strengthened , it is done unconsciously. And yet it is I who am doing all this; there cannot be twenty people in this one body. How do I know that I do it, and nobody else?It may be urged that my business is only in eating and assimilating the food, and that strengthening the body by the food is done for me by somebody else. That cannot be, because it can be demonstrated that almost every action of which we are now unconscious can be brought up to the plane of consciousness. The heart is beating apparently without our control. None of us here can control the heart; it goes on its own way. But by practice men can bring even the heart under control, until it will beat at will, slowly, or quickly, or almost stop. Nearly every part of the body can be brought under control. What does this show? That the functions which are beneath consciousness are also performed by us, only we are doing it unconsciously.

    We have, then,two planes in which the human mind works. First is the conscious plane , in which all work is always accompanied with the feeling of egoism. Next comes the unconscious plane, where all work is unaccompanied by the feeling of egoism. That part of mind-work which is unaccompanied with the feeling of egoism is unconscious work, and that part which is accompanied with the feeling of egoism is conscious work. In the lower animals this unconscious work is called instinct. In higher animals, and in the highest of all animals, man, what is called conscious work prevails.

    But it does not end here. There is a still higher plane upon which the mind can work. It can go beyond consciousness. Just as, unconscious work is beneath consciousnes, so there is another work which is above consciousness and which also is not accompanied with the feeling of egoism. The feeling of egoism is only on the middle plane. When the mind is above or below that plane, there is no feeling of "I", and yet the mind works. When the mind goes beyond this line of self-consciousness, it is called Samadhi, or superconsciousness. How , for instance, do we know that a man in Samadhi has not gone below consciousness, has not degenerated instead of going higher?In both cases the works are unaccompanied with egoism. The answer is, by the effects, by the results of the work, we know that which is below, and that which is above. When a man goes into deep sleep, he enters a plane beneath consciousness. He works the body all the time, he breathes , he moves the body, perhaps , in his sleep, without any unaccompanying feeling of ego; he is unconscious, and when he returns from his sleep, he is the same man who went into it. The sum total of the knowledge which he had before he went into the sleep remains the same; it does not increase at all. No enlightenment comes. But when a man goes into Samadhi, if he goes into it a fool, he comes out a sage.

    What makes the difference? From one state a man comes out the very same man that he went in , and from another state the man comes out enlightened, a sage, a prophet, a saint, his whole character changed, his life changed, illumined. These are the two effects. Now the effects being different, the causes must be different. As this illumination with which a man comes back from Samadhi is much higher than can be got by reasoning in a conscious state, it must , therefore, be superconsciousness, and Samadhi is called the superconscious state."
     
  3. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    These prophets were not unique; they were men as you or I. They were great Yogis. They had gained this superconsciousness, and you and I can get the same. They were not peculiar people. The very fact that one man ever reached that state proves that it is possible for every man to do so. Not only is it possible, but every man must, eventually, get to that state, and that is religion.

    --Swami Vivekananda
     
  4. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    Here are a few verses from the Quran that deals with terror.



    1. (Koran 8:12) "Remember Thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the believers, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them."


    2. (Koran 2:216) "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that you hate a thing which is good for you and it may happen that you love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, you knew not."


    3. (Koran 69:30-37) "It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. You desire the lure of this world and Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is Mighty, Wise.. Now enjoy what you have won as lawful and good and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful."

    4. (Koran 69:30-37) "(It will be said) Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. Lo! he used not to believe in God the tremendous, and urged not on the feeding of the wretched. Therefore hath he no lover hear this day nor any food save filth which none but sinners eat."





    5. (Koran 5: 33-34) "The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet and alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom; Save those who repent before ye overpower them. For know that Allah is forgiving, merciful."





    6. (Koran 22: 19-22) "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them, boiling fluid will be poured down their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."





    7. (Koran 76: 4) "Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers chains, yokes and a blazing fire."



    8. So when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters, wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush…. (Koran 9:5)

    The only punishment of those that wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is that they should be murdered, or crucified, or their hands and their feet should be cut-off on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned…. (Koran 5:33)

    9."Let not the believers take the disbelievers for friends rather than believers. And whoever does this has no connection with Allah unless it is done to guard (Takeyya) yourselves against them, guarding carefully. And Allah cautions you against His retribution. And to Allah is the eventual coming." (Koran 3:27)

    10.Sura 47:4-6,15 "Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight), smite them at their necks.At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them).


    11.Sura 61:4,11-13 "Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure ... that ye believe in God and His Apostle, and that ye strive (your utmost) in the cause of God, with your property and your persons. That will be best for you, if ye but knew! He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in gardens of eternity. That is indeed the supreme achievement. And another (favour will He bestow), which ye do love - help from God and a speedy victory. So give the glad tidings to the believers."

    12.Sura 9:29-31 "Fight those who believe not in God nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth, (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

    13.Sura 5:54 "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust."
     
  5. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    By my earlier posts , I am not preaching hatred against any religion. However fundamentalism, dogmatism and fanaticism in all its forms anywhere ought to be despised and eradicated . And I hope my posts will help to achieve that .

    In this context , I wish to quote this teaching of Buddha...

    Believe nothing, merely because you have been told it, or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for your teacher. But whatever after due consideration and analysis you find to be conducive to the good , the benefit, the welfare of all beings, that doctrine , believe and cling to and take it as your guide.
    - Buddha
     
  6. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    The Buddha and rationalism

    By my earlier posts , I am not preaching hatred against any religion. However fundamentalism, dogmatism and fanaticism in all its forms anywhere ought to be despised and eradicated . And I hope my posts will help to achieve that .

    In this context , I wish to quote this teaching of Buddha...

    Believe nothing, merely because you have been told it, or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for your teacher. But whatever after due consideration and analysis you find to be conducive to the good , the benefit, the welfare of all beings, that doctrine , believe and cling to and take it as your guide.
    - Buddha
     
  7. Pathless

    Pathless Fiercely Interdependent

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    So what is your point? There's a lot of words there, but none of them belong to you. Without reading every last one of them (I did read the first and most of the second excerpts from Vivekananda), it seems that your message is that Mohammed, not being a yogi, missed the mark, and that's why there is terrorism?

    Hm. Maybe, but maybe too it's a bit more complicated, involving things like imperial ambition of superpowers who have a fondness for oil and have no qualms about indebting countries in perpetuity so that they may siphon that oil. Maybe, just maybe it also has to do with the same hegemonic powers taking even more dastardly, crass measures and installing dictators to enforce corporate will, and when things get bad, deposing those same dictators with bombs that kill citizens indiscriminately...

    Eh, nevermind. We'll pick up that topic in the politics section, perhaps.

    Islam does not have a monopoly on terrorism, though. Many so-called Christians and Jews practice it as well. I'm not so sure about the Buddhists, but I do think some Hindu sects engage in terrorism.

    There are many forms of terrorism. Suicide bombs of all kinds are only one of the more blatant and raw manifestations. The people of South and Central America, for example, suffered many decades of state-supported terrorism, and all so that certain vested interests could maintain their profits and exploitation of resources.

    Anyway.

    Later,
    Pathless
     
  8. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    .


    I disagree with that . If you read my last post you can see words of mine.





    .


    If you read carefully my first three posts, you can see that Vivekananda has stated that Muhammad has stumbled upon the superconscious state by elevating his emotional nature by love of the Divine. Raja yoga, is a system of yoga , that deals with accessing the superconscious mind and there is a whole science and techniques devoted to it. If Muhammad had prior knowledge of yoga, or knowledge of the superconscious mind, he probably would have been more circumspect in revealing the verses of the quran, and minus the superstitions.

    .

    Well,if you check history and current events , you can see that Islamic terrorism is a global phenomenon .

    In asia itself, the Zoroastrians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains ,Bahais
    and the Assyrians are victims of Islamic terrorism.

    Many Buddhist countries in central Asia were destroyed by Islamic fanatics and their people forcibly converted. The Zoroastrian nation in Persia (Iran) too was completely destroyed and the people were forcibly converted. Many Zoroastrians fled to India in order to escape Islamic persecution .

    It is a global phenomenon in the sense that Islamic terrorism has affected Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines, China, Chechnya and Beslan in Russia ,Sudan , Libya, Algeria, Egypt, the Netherlands, France, the U.K (7/7), the Madrid train bombings in Spain, the U.S.(9/11), and other countries.
     
  9. Pathless

    Pathless Fiercely Interdependent

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    Terrorism is a global event. Islam does not have a monopoloy on it. "America" as we know it was founded on terrorism against the people of Turtle Island. If you don't know what Turtle Island is, it's all the land that Canadians, Americans, Mexicans, and all the inhabitants of Central and South America now occupy. Occupy. As in occupation. As in the Israeli occupation of Palestine. As in the American occupation of Iraq. Same thing. Terrorism and denying people human rights.

    Why single out Muslims? Many of them are vicitims of terrorism as well.

    I do not support terrorism, and I think the issues are much more far-reaching than any single religion. To me, terrorism arises from greed and economics of exploitation. Currently the world is embroiled in it, and terrorists the world over are fighting terrorists with more terrorism. It's disguisting, unenlightened, and truly frightening, and we will all be grieiving and cleaning up this mess for a long time to come.
     
  10. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    Hi Pathless. You must understand that the topic of this thread is "The real cause of Islamic terrorism-the yogic perspective", not about american terrorism. I would urge you to stick to the topic.

    Jehadi mentality amongst muslims should be condemned unequivocally.
     
  11. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    You can't blame one man for other people’s actions. Look at Christianity for instance, there are so many denominations. Everyone of these denominations interprets the bible differently. People do as they wish as appose to taking every word for word literally as true from religious text. It's very possible to read the Koran and interprets as a passive religion because there are passive passages in it, as with all religions there is contradictory texts in them. All depends the way you want to take it. So don't blame one man, blame man.

    Christians used to round up thousands of Jews and burn them, they used to go on witch hunts and burn innocent women. The people today have progressed socially, the Chrisiatnity of today is very different to that of 1 thousand years ago.

    Islam is a young monothiest religion, the other abrahamic faiths are older, the people of the older faiths have had longer to refine and adapt there teachings. I think thats where the problem is. You always find a shift in religious views in history with the progression of society.

    I'm from a Greek Cypriot back ground, in 1974 the Turks illegally invaded the north of Cyprus and still occupy it illegally to this day. I would never dream to go up there and bomb the place, infact since the invasion no Greek Or Greek Cypriot has done so. Yet on the other side of the sea, the story is different.
     
  12. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    Hi Postmaster. As I have suggested to Pathless, I must ask you to stick to the topic , and discuss about Islamic terrorism and its effects on the Bahais, the Zoroastrians, the Hindus, the Sikhs, Jains, the Buddhists, and the Assyrians.


    <<<<<<<You can't blame one man for other people’s actions.>>>>>>>

    Well, if you read my earlier posts , you can see some verses from the quran where killing, physical torture, crucifixion,mutilation is sanctioned.

    I have never read about Jesus or any other prophet, talking about physical torture(chopping off ones fingers, hands and legs) and mutilation. :(

    True, the Christians did indulge in murder and other heinous activities, but unlike the quran, this has not been sanctioned by Jesus, who clearly abhorred all violence.

    I am not a Christian, but this is my objective observation.
     
  13. Pathless

    Pathless Fiercely Interdependent

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    :p :p :p

    Topic, schmopic. It's all interconnected. Islamic terrorism would not have gotten to the level it is today without American terrorism.
     
  14. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    Well, the Baha'is for one would disagree with your hypothesis that violence in Islam is rooted in the Quran because Baha'is fully uphold the Quran as a divine revelation from God and consider Muhammad a manifestation of God.
     
  15. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    So are you saying that the destruction of several buddhist nations in central asia, the destruction of the Zoroastrian nation in the 7th century A.D. , atrocities committed by Islamic terrorists on Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains ,Hindus , Bahais,Assyrians are all due to American terrorism . :eek:

    Just wish to remind you that the U.S. as a nation is just two centuries old, compared to Islamic terrorism which started with the birth of Islam in the 7 th century A.D.
     
  16. Pathless

    Pathless Fiercely Interdependent

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    No, I am not saying that. I am saying that in the current world, in current world events, the rash of terrorism that is being blamed on "Islamic terrorists" is very much related to American foreign policy and acts of terrorism linked to the United States Government.
     
  17. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    Believe nothing, merely because you have been told it, or because it is traditional or because you yourselves have imagined it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for your teacher. But whatever after due consideration and analysis you find to be conducive to the good , the benefit, the welfare of all beings, that doctrine , believe and cling to and take it as your guide.
    - Buddha

    The Bahais hold Buddha to be a prophet as well , and a manifestation of God. And hence considering Buddhas above quote, emphasizing a questioning mind and a rational and logical mind, I think we should let facts speak for themselves, and not believe in anything blindly , including the dogma that the quran is a divine revelation from God.





    Now lets enter into a discussion about atrocities on the bahais by Islamic terrorists.

    The Bab is the first prophet of the Bahai religion. Here's what wikipedia has to say about him.......

    In 1844 Siyyid `Alí-Muhammad of Shiraz, Iran proclaimed that he was "the Báb" (Arabic: الباب‎ "the Gate"), after a Shi`a religious concept. His followers were therefore known as Bábís. As the Báb's teachings spread, which the Islamic clergy saw as a threat, Bábís came under increased persecution, at times being forced to choose between renouncing their beliefs or being killed. Several military confrontations took place between government and Bábí forces. The Báb himself was imprisoned and eventually executed in 1850.



    Friedrich W. Affolter writes: “Initially, the mullas hoped to stop the Bábí movement from spreading by denouncing its followers as apostates and enemies of God. These denouncements resulted in mob attacks, public executions and torture of early Bábís. When the Bábís (in accordance with Koranic principles) organized to defend themselves, the government sent troops into a series of engagements that resulted in heavy losses on both sides. The Báb himself was imprisoned from 1846 until 1850 and eventually publicly executed. In August 1852, two deranged Bábís attempted to kill the Shah in revenge for the execution of the Báb. This resulted in an extensive pogrom during which more than 20,000 Bábís – among them 400 Shí‘i mullas who had embraced the Bábí teachings – lost their lives.



    As the result of the Báb's execution in 1850 by a firing squad in Tabriz, an assassination attempt was instigated on the King of Persia, Nasser-al-Din Shah, two years later by a handful of angry Bábís. Although the assassins claimed they were working alone, the entire Bábí community was blamed, and a slaughter of several thousand Bábís followed. Many of the Bábís who were not killed, including Bahá'u'lláh, were imprisoned in the Síyáh-Chál (Black Pit), an underground dungeon of Tehran. Bahá'u'lláh himself was found to be innocent of complicity in the assassination plot, but remained in the Síyáh-Chál over four months.
    An Austrian officer, Captain von Goumoens, working in the court of the Shah at the time, gave the following account after signing his resignation:
    "[I saw] ones who, with gouged-out eyes, must eat, on the scene of the deed, their own amputated ears; or whose teeth are torn out with inhuman violence by the hand of the executioner; or whose bare skulls are simply crushed by blows from a hammer..." "As for the end itself, they hang the scorched and perforated bodies by their hands and feet to a tree head downwards, and now every Persian may try his marksmanship to his heart’s content... When I read over again, what I have written, I am overcome by the thought that those who are with you in our dearly beloved Austria may doubt the full truth of the picture, and accuse me of exaggeration. Would to God that I had not lived to see it!... At present I never leave my house, in order not to meet with fresh scenes of horror... I will no longer maintain my connection with the scene of such crimes.”








    Early 20th century and the Pahlavi Dynasty
    Starting in the twentieth century, in addition to repression that impacted individual Bahá'ís, centrally-directed campaigns that targeted the entire Bahá'í community and institutions were initiated. Some of these persecutions were recorded by missionaries who were in the areas at the time of the massacres. In one case in Yazd in 1903 more than 100 Bahá'ís were killed. Later on Bahá'í schools, such as the Tarbiyat boys' and girl's schools in Tehran, were closed in the 1930s and '40s, Bahá'í marriages were not recognized and Bahá'í literature was censored.

    During the reign of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, due to the growing nationalism and the economic difficulties in the country, the Shah gave up control over certain religious affairs to the clergy of the country. Among other things, the power sharing resulted in a campaign of persecution against the Bahá'ís.Akhavi has suggested that it is likely that the government had hoped that by orchestrating a movement against the Bahá'ís it could serve to obscure the fact that revenues obtained by the distribution of oil from western oil companies was going to be too low for the growing nationalistic sentiment; it would also serve to gain the support of the clergy for their foreign policy.The approved and coordinated the anti-Bahá'í campaign to incite public passion against the Bahá'ís started in 1955 and included the spreading of anti-Bahá'í propaganda in national radio stations and official newspapers.
    During the the month of Ramadan in 1955, Sheikh Mohammad Taqi Falsafi, a populist preacher, started one of the highest-profile anti-Bahá'í propaganda schemes. After receiving permission from the Shah to state anti-Bahá'í rhetoric in his sermons, he encouraged other clergy to discuss the Bahá'í issue in their sermons.These sermons caused mob violence against Bahá'ís; Bahá'í properties were destroyed, Bahá'í centres were looted, Bahá'í cemeteries desecrated, Bahá'ís were killed, some hacked to pieces, Bahá'í women were abducted and forced to marry Muslims, and Bahá'ís were expelled and dismissed from schools and employment.




    Bahá'ís continue to be persecuted in Islamic countries, especially Iran, where over 200 believers were executed between 1978 and 1998.

    Administrative Council of Egypt, on December 16 2006 , ruled the government may not recognize the Bahá'í Faith in official identification numbers. Consequently, Egyptian Bahá'ís are unable to obtain government documents, including ID cards, birth, death, marriage or divorce certificates, or passports, all of which require a person's religion to be listed. They also cannot be employed, educated, treated in hospitals or vote, among other things. The Egyptian Initiative for Private Rights stated that the press release issued by the Chief Judge of the Supreme Court did not respond to any of the evidence or arguments presented by the EIPR in the case, and that the release only discussed the tenets and beliefs of the Bahá'í Faith, which should have not have affected the court's decision.
    Since the Islamic Revolution of 1979, Iranian Bahá'ís have regularly had their homes ransacked or been banned from attending university or holding government jobs, and several hundred have received prison sentences for their religious beliefs, most recently for participating in study circles. Bahá'í cemeteries have been desecrated and property seized and occasionally demolished, including the House of Mírzá Buzurg, Bahá'u'lláh's father. The House of the Báb in Shiraz has been destroyed twice, and is one of three sites to which Bahá'ís perform pilgrimage.
    Even more recently the situation of Bahá'ís has worsened; the United Nations Commission on Human Rights revealed an October 2005 confidential letter from Command Headquarters of the Armed Forces of Iran to identy Bahá'ís and to monitor their activities and in November 2005 the stat-run and influential Kayhan newspaper, whose managing editor is appointed by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, ran nearly three dozen articles defaming the Bahá'í Faith.
    Due to these actions, the Special Rapporteur of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights stated on March 20, 2006 that she "also expresses concern that the information gained as a result of such monitoring will be used as a basis for the increased persecution of, and discrimination against, members of the Bahá'í faith, in violation of international standards. ... The Special Rapporteur is concerned that this latest development indicates that the situation with regard to religious minorities in Iran is, in fact, deteriorating."



    Bernard Lewis states that the Muslim laity and Islamic authorities have always had great difficulty in accommodating post-Islamic monotheistic religions such as the Bahá'í Faith, since on one hand the followers of such religions cannot be dismissed either as benighted heathens, like the polytheists of Asia and the animists of Africa, nor as outdated precursors, like the Jews and Christians. Moreover, their very existence presents a challenge to the Islamic doctrine of the perfection and finality of Muhammad's revelation.



    Statements by some Iranian writers and academics



    The real truth is though that no one gives a damn what happens to Bahá'ís.”
    —Iqbal Latif, The Iranian August 5, 2002



    I'm just fascinated by the fact that we -- nearly every non-Bahá'í Iranian -- do not really consider Bahá'ís as Iranian. We consider them bastard children of British colonialism aiming to destroy Islam, specifically Shi'ite Islam. They're not even 'other' Iranians. We see them as something else. Or maybe we don't see them at all.”
    —Jahanshah Javid, The Iranian July 3, 2002




    Go ahead. Go and shed a tear for Palestinians. They deserve it. Israel is crushing them like ants. But when you get a chance, do give a **** about Bahá'ís too. You want a noble cause? You want to scream and shout about injustice? I'm telling you... Bahá'ís have been really underrated as far as causes go.”
    —Jahanshah Javid, The Iranian July 3, 2002
     
  18. lunamoth

    lunamoth Episcopalian

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    I know very well that Baha'is have been and are now being severely persecuted in Iran and other Muslim countries.

    I was just pointing out that Baha'is are not going to agree with your explanation for the violence. And I would add that it's not exactly a very friendly approach to come to an interfaith discussion board and claim that the Prophet Muhammad was uninspired.
     
  19. Postmaster

    Postmaster New Member

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    I would say that American foreign policy is not an exclusive cause. Shia and Sunny fight amongst themselves. How do you explain going round in death squads torturing people, killing them and throwing them in mass graves. Sorry this is inexcusable.
     
  20. niranjan

    niranjan New Member

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    As I have stated in my previous post, the Bahais, whether they like it or not, are duty bound not to accept anything blindly, due to the teahing of their prophet Buddha, who clearly exhorts one not to believe in anything blindly , and to have a logical and rational frame of mind.



    Also I am not a Bahai, and I really don't care whether they agree with me or not. However as a human being , I believe I have the right to point out the atrocities committed by Islamic fanatics on the Bahais in the form of murder, gross physical torture, mutilation, denial of human rights and humiliation .



    Well, if you read my initial posts, you can see that Vivekananda has said that Muhammad was inspired , but his inspiration was stumbled upon . Vivekananda himself says that upon reading the quran you can find great truths along with superstitions , and explains the reason for this . Please read my first post again.

    Also I am in this Comparative Studies forum not to be strictly friendly (though I have always been polite), but to state the facts, and discuss matters in a logical and rational fashion.
     
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