imagine there is nothing to fear

shadowman

Well-Known Member
Messages
505
Reaction score
0
Points
0
but if the thing we are believing in is in the position to make us feel like we will be sorry if we dont beleive in him(many people msulims and chrisitans think its better to be safe, and believe), then is it good and worthy of belief?


why is it even considered normal to even debate whether things that have to be believed in to be believed in should be believed in?

imagine that there is nothing to fear. its kind of impossible to imagine because to truly beleive there is nothing to fear, we would have to imagine that it doesnt matter if anything bad happens to us, but try hard. im not saying its a good goal to beleive that it doesnt matter if anything bad happens to us, but thinking about things like this helps us realize what fear is, and why we fear things...

then one by one look at what systems we have that are in a position to be feared, and why.

and in what stuations are they to be feared.

humans have the possiblity to do anything, so they can be feared if they have the possiblity to do something bad to us.

sin in us can be feared because it corrupts us or makes us not good, or makes us something that we think should be feared.

sin in others can be feared because it can make us into something we dont think is good, or it can harm us.

evil can be feared for similar reasons.

I seperate evil and sin because they are defined differently.

evil could be argued to be totally relative, but lets say that evil is something that harms or wants to harm humans.

lets say sin is something that god doesnt like.

in many ways of thinking about the two terms, they line up.

but in a few ways of thinking they dont. (actually in both cases the possiblities of thinking are infinite i guess)

for example

punching someone or yelling at someone is both evil and sinful in most cases.

but sex could be seen as sinful (and therefore evil)

or as an act of affection, assuming that god doesnt think its evil.

belief in things dont usually matter on some grand "moral" scale, but to a god, its many times a sin to not believe in something.

it depends on what we define as bad, and what we define as things to be feared and why.

god is fearable because we have defined him to be so.

this is why I Said imagine there is nothing to fear, seriosuly try and imagine.

then you will see how much fear god and his interaction in our world (or his world) causes.

its fine for god to hurt us, and its fine for it to be his world and not ours, and its fine if god wants to get all the glory and praise, and its fine if he wants to make things uncomfortable for us if we disagree with him or do sometihng he doesnt like.

why is it fine? becuase in many definitions of god, hes the one that matters and we dont!

so if thats how things are then its fine because thats how things are and theres nothing we can do about it.

its fine for god, and its fine for everything, because we dont matter. and that changes thought processes.

something like this god could obviosuly be feared.

but its not good. at least not in the definition where good means "nothing bad happens to us"

in a definition where good is defined by what god does and wills, then its ok for us to fear god, and be hurt by him, because in those rules, we deserve it, and theres nothing we can do about it.

again

things that cause fear for us are usually not good for us, unless definitions are being radically shifted under our noses.

and Im thinking that this is what religions do in many cases.
 
Namaste ShadowMan...

I love all the contemplations the title conjures up...that and your moniker...the shadow...a shadow man...

'imagine there is nothing to fear'

Shouldn't be hard, should it? After all 99.99% of what we fear is imagined. And how often does our imagination fulfill selffulfiling prophecy? Just enough for us to continue the bad habit...despite the fact that most of our fears never appear!

So that guy in the shadows...says..imagine there is nothing to fear!

When in truth there is nothing to fear!

There you are standing at the bottom of a cliff as a shadow appears around your feet. It grows exponentially and you look up to see the piano falling. Either move, so it doesn't hit you...nothing to fear....or it hits you...nothing to fear...

Can't hardly imagine fearing the future....I imagine I'll continue looking forward to what is coming round the next corner.
 
"There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"...Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Rev 14:7[/FONT]
 
Last edited:
fear! judgement! death!

seems like the bible has a lot of threats

what would we think of a political system that used these kind of tactics?
 
our righteousness is a filthy rag. no system made by man will last. only our Father in heaven will make a Kingdom that will last unto eternity.
 
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"...Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters." Rev 14:7[/FONT]
My understanding is that the words used in reference to fearing G-d in the bible could also be translated as 'respect'. As in we must respect a knife...even though it is quite valuable, it is also sharp. I don't think one has a need to fear a knife unless it is wielded by an entity with less than honorable intentions.
 
Yes, when it says to "Fear God" in the Bible it does not mean to be afraid of him or anything, but to think of Him with a reverential awe.
 
My understanding is that the words used in reference to fearing G-d in the bible could also be translated as 'respect'. As in we must respect a knife...even though it is quite valuable, it is also sharp. I don't think one has a need to fear a knife unless it is wielded by an entity with less than honorable intentions.

Yeah, I agree. And I was thinking of that as I used the text. I should have clarified...

I think the danger in thinking you don't have to fear G-d is relaxing and thinking you don't have to respect Him.
 
Yes, when it says to "Fear God" in the Bible it does not mean to be afraid of him or anything, but to think of Him with a reverential awe.

How about in the context of telling us not to fear something of this world but instead fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of. Its the same fear that a child has when they disobey the parent and know they are about to get the whipping of their life... Thats a bit more than reverential awe imo.
 
How about in the context of telling us not to fear something of this world but instead fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of. Its the same fear that a child has when they disobey the parent and know they are about to get the whipping of their life... Thats a bit more than reverential awe imo.
While I don't think of God in anthropomorphic ways, when it comes to this view in certain Christian camps, I think the parent metaphor is apt-we have a word for parents who'd kill their children-"sociopath." :) So, if we're going to imagine "God" demonstrating various human attributes, I'd imagine something greater than humanity is typically capable of. take care, earl
 
How about... fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of...
If He were arbitrarily just killing...not much need to fear as my thoughts and actions don't matter to an arbitrary event. If He were justly killing and sending to hell...I make my choices and decide whether carnal, material needs in this life are more important than my fear. As I have gained respect for the power, love and grace of G-d, I am not in fear of being punished for anything that is due me from the ways of my past, nor am I believing He's rolling the dice and arbitrarilly passing judgement. Therefor I have no fear of G-d. I have a love of G-d, and tons of respect.
 
This is the Christian forum but please indulge me for the moment.:) In Buddhism they traditionally speak of various mind states and corresponding "realms of reality" that depending upon the practitioner may be interpretted soley symbolically or literally. So for instance they acknowledge a "hell realm" where an individual suffers greatly-for a period of time. Since Buddhism has no "judging" Creator God, their notion of which realm we end up in is based on "karma"-that is our realities are reflective of our state of mind so "hellish" states of mind put us in "hellish" places literally. What's interesting about that tradition is their view of boundless compassion as exemplified by 1 of their bodhisattvas, Ksitigharba. That "higher being" is traditionally seen as one who travels to the hell realms with great compassion to guide suffering beings to better realms of "reality/truth." To them, hell isn't forever-it lasts only until you see and embrace the "grace" of the compassion and wisdom awaiting you. I would think Christ would do no less.:) earl
 
People live every mortal day of their life with consequences... what makes anyone think that they can live eternally without the same consequences that God created in the first place. God is preparing his creation for eternity by teaching it His lessons. We either learn the consequences of our choices before we die.. or we learn them afterwards when its too late...
 
It keeps coming to me that everyone wants forgiveness but arent willing to repent.. My children do this to me.. they want me to forgive them when they disobey but hate telling me they're sorry. Its humanity.. God taught us everything we need to know in our basic instincts on how to raise our own children... why is it so hard to believe we arent supposed to apply it to our heavenly parent???
 
People live every mortal day of their life with consequences... what makes anyone think that they can live eternally without the same consequences that God created in the first place. God is preparing his creation for eternity by teaching it His lessons. We either learn the consequences of our choices before we die.. or we learn them afterwards when its too late...



That is a good way to put it :)
 
While I don't think of God in anthropomorphic ways, when it comes to this view in certain Christian camps, I think the parent metaphor is apt-we have a word for parents who'd kill their children-"sociopath." :) So, if we're going to imagine "God" demonstrating various human attributes, I'd imagine something greater than humanity is typically capable of. take care, earl

I agree with "imagining something greater than humanity...".

My question: Why do we (who believe in creation) acknowledge G-d's power to create us but not to terminate us?

Does not a creator have the right to destroy his work?
 
Last edited:
How about in the context of telling us not to fear something of this world but instead fear Him who can kill us then send us to hell... thats a pretty serious thing to be afraid of. Its the same fear that a child has when they disobey the parent and know they are about to get the whipping of their life... Thats a bit more than reverential awe imo.

i completely agree with you on that. most parents can truly understand what it means to fear because we are responsible on teaching our children to fear consequences of their actions. i know i understand because my dad would give me beatings that i would never forget. but it was for our own good. then in turn you can see why our Father dishes out discipline the way he does because we can see in His eyes.
 
I agree with "imagining something greater than humanity...".

My question: Why do we (who believe in creation) acknowledge G-d's power to create us but not to terminate us?

Does not a creator have the right to destroy his work?

That is very true. God created life. Only he has the right to take it away. And he does: God has taken the life of every person who has ever lived.

Here's an analogy: You write a book, but then decide to throw it away. Is that right? Of course it is, you wrote it, you have the right to destroy it. If soemone else came and destroyed your work, that is wrong because they do not have the right to.
 
these are mostly terrible analogies.

if a parent creates life, do they have a right to destroy it?

I think relationship dynamics change when the objects in questions have human characteristics like consciousness, emotions, worries, struggles, doubts and fears and pain.

I would hope we are more than books to god.


and the fear conjured up by the bible is unimaginably fearful compared to the nurturing fear that one may get from a parent.

hell is punishment for punishments sake only, it isnt curative, it isnt to help humans, its to hurt them unimaginably.

also

the whole "do this before it is too late" is crazy.

thats like something you would hear said in a torture chamber... "just do what we want and the torture will end, its your choice, just do what we want before its too late!"
 
and the fear conjured up by the bible is unimaginably fearful compared to the nurturing fear that one may get from a parent.

hell is punishment for punishments sake only, it isnt curative, it isnt to help humans, its to hurt them unimaginably.

the whole "do this before it is too late" is crazy.

thats like something you would hear said in a torture chamber... "just do what we want and the torture will end, its your choice, just do what we want before its too late!"
It keeps coming to me that everyone wants forgiveness but arent willing to repent.. My children do this to me.. they want me to forgive them when they disobey but hate telling me they're sorry. Its humanity.. God taught us everything we need to know in our basic instincts on how to raise our own children... why is it so hard to believe we arent supposed to apply it to our heavenly parent???

I think you may have a point. Why do we persist with this "parent punishing children" thing?

It's as if God is this Big Super Giant Parent who knocks us on the head and spanks us when we don't do as we're told or don't do what we are supposed to do. Naughty naughty. Bad boy. Bad girl. I'll give you the easter eggs if you're good.

We're not always going to be little kids. Life moves onto to a new phase called adulthood. That's where there is nobody to tell us what to do. We're left to our own devices. It is up to us to decide what to do with our lives. But it's not a free lunch. It's a completely new ball game.

Childhood progresses to adulthood by moving on from a life of obedience spent in submission to a greater power to a life spent striving for much higher ideals like the autonomous pursuit of honour, pride, virtue and dignity. When we were kids people were constantly telling us what to do as if we couldn't think for ourselves. When we grew up it all went away.

I believe God expects much more of us than blind submission. There are the higher ideals of honour, pride, virtue and dignity -- the grown up world.

As far as I know, I haven't received any direct instructions from God. What am I disobeying? Not much. But I have a moral obligation to live a justified life -- an honourable life, virtuous life, dignified life. My life and my actions must be justified. It's not all about doing as I'm told, but also about doing what I do not need to be told.

That was perhaps the point of the story of the master who went away and left some money with two of his servants. One servant buried it in the ground. The other servant invested the money. The former gained nothing but rebuke and punishment because he only did what he was told, nothing more. The latter reaped rewards because he was a wise guy.
 
Back
Top