Passover Seder

wil

wil

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Last night I went to my first Passover Seder.

It was with the family of a business partner. It was at his sister's family's home, his parents, his neices, and his family was there.

It was wonderful. The prayers, the songs, the traditions, the four questions, the ten plagues, the seder plate, hiding the afikomen, finding the afikomen, buying the afikomen.......I enjoyed it all.

I enjoyed listening to the kids sing and recite their portions, their laughter and their explanations. I enjoyed the middle generation working on keeping the order and keeping the program moving, and the older generations input about how it used to be done.

Setting the place for Elijah, opening the door and letting him in...

Truly a wonderful experience for me... I enjoyed being let in...
 
Francis king said:
congrats, wil... (even though I'm not sure what seder is... ) sounds like a pleasant experience ...
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Passover Seder from wiki

In my exploration of other religions, I think the holy days and the festivals are great introductions beyond the books, and forums like this one.

If anyone else has specific events that welcome explorers from other faiths, please post them, and give us some hints on how to partake without stepping on toes...
 
cheers wil, for the wiki link... yeah, I thought I kinda knew what Passover was, I was unsure about the Seder bit... and now I know...

shalom
 
Thank you, wil. The article answered some questions for me. Didn't really know where to look before--or more like, I didn't know exactly how to ask.

InPeace,
InLove
 
Is the only evidence for the Passover Lamb a couple of shank bones (Z'roa)? Where is the meat in that? Wasn't roasted lamb eaten during the Passover when God smote all the first-borns whose houses didn't have the lamb's blood on the doorposts?
 
Dondi said:
Is the only evidence for the Passover Lamb a couple of shank bones (Z'roa)? Where is the meat in that? Wasn't roasted lamb eaten during the Passover when God smote all the first-borns whose houses didn't have the lamb's blood on the doorposts?
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The Seder plate has small dishes representing each representing a different portion of the Jewish heritage. At the Seders I attended (there are two, the first and second nights of Passover) the tradition goes through the prayers and discussion of each item on the Seder plate, then the matzo soup (and the discussion as to the texture and soft/hard quality of the ball) and then onto the meal. The first night meal was chicken, the second night meal was lamb (I don't know if that part is common or not).

And on the second night (actually the beginning of the second day....as sundown begins the day) is also the first day of counting the omer...

As a Christian experiencing the Seder makes you contemplate the last supper...and the discussions, traditions that weren't included in the short record we have of what was probably a 4-6 hour meal...
 
I suppose you knew where I was going with this. Indeed, Christ instituted the Last Supper during the Passover. Many Christians would argue that since the Jews make no sacrifices then their sins cannot be atoned for, since Temple's destruction in A.D. 70. And since the Jews reject the notion that Jesus is the Messiah, well, then their sins could not be atoned for by that virtue either.

However, it is apparent that through the Passover meal, there seems to be allowance to infer that the Passover Lamb may have merit in this regard, I dunno. That it is symbolic of a promise of restoration and reconciliation with God. Certainly, in the Passover, the future Messianic Age is reflected in the one of the Four Cups, as mentioned in the Wiki article, along with the notuon of resurrection of the dead and the world to come. Perhaps this is the point of reconciliation between Jews and Christians that at the final accounting we shall be One with God.

That is my hope and expectation anyway.
 
dondi,

the sacrifices did not atone for sins in their own right, but only as a sort of certification once true repentance and atonement had taken place. think of it like this - you cheat on your wife. will buying her flowers and chocolates make her feel better? that sort of thing is only going to do any good once the actual problem has been resolved satisfactorily, hence G!D's remarks about "I Hate your sacrifices!" through the prophets. sacrifice in a sinful environment is like trying to weasel out of responsibility. in any case, yom kippur, the "day of atonement" and the whole "high holydays" period functions in the absence of the Temple on the principle from hosea, "we shall compensate for the bulls with our lips".

b'shalom

bananabrain
 
Dondi said:
Christ instituted the Last Supper during the Passover.
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It appears to me the Last Supper is called the last supper...simply because it was. Jesus sat down to Passover Seder with his 'family'. Odds are they went through all the rituals...as they were at that time. The drinking wine and breaking bread happens not only at every passover but every Shabout service I've been to.

As I read about history of the times...Dinners/Suppers...major meals by important people were quite the event. Often they were public, with these public figures eating and discussing for ours and many of the citizenry sitting around listening, looking in through windows...reports of what was being discussed at dinner whispered out to the folks surrounding who couldn't see or hear.

The Last Supper passover dinner was unique in that regard, the upper room, limited access...and in watching a 3-4 hour meal and prayer go on in a small family (and as I count in my head interestingly enough...13 people were at our table)...any way there is no mention of who was tending the table, who cooked and provided all the food...no small task..they are in and out every few minutes exchanging plates bringing in new dishes...And it just now dawns on me, every last supper painting I've seen, there is no setting and place for Elijah...
 
bananabrain said:
dondi,

the sacrifices did not atone for sins in their own right, but only as a sort of certification once true repentance and atonement had taken place. think of it like this - you cheat on your wife. will buying her flowers and chocolates make her feel better? that sort of thing is only going to do any good once the actual problem has been resolved satisfactorily, hence G!D's remarks about "I Hate your sacrifices!" through the prophets. sacrifice in a sinful environment is like trying to weasel out of responsibility. in any case, yom kippur, the "day of atonement" and the whole "high holydays" period functions in the absence of the Temple on the principle from hosea, "we shall compensate for the bulls with our lips".

b'shalom

bananabrain
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I understand completely about repentance from sin. But the fact is that we are human and going to screw up. It has alway been my understanding that atonement is needed to return to a right relationship with God, recognizing your error before God, and striving to be more obedient.

If the sacrifices aren't to provide atonement, then how do your interpret verses such as these:

"And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it." - Exodus 29:36

"And Aaron shall make an atonement upon the horns of it once in a year with the blood of the sin offering of atonements: once in the year shall he make atonement upon it throughout your generations: it is most holy unto the LORD." - Exodus 30:10

"And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them." - Leviticus 4:20

Maybe I'm just off in my understanding the purpose of atonement. Sure, God hates that sacrifice is necessary - "To obey is better that sacrifice" - yet was this not God's provision to garner a way for people to humbly come back to God? To me, it seems the killing of the sacrifice is akin to killing oneself. That because of sin, we ought to be the one punished instead of the animal. Death has always loomed over mankind. How can we not value life when life is so fragile? The sacrifice seems to bring such a finality to the equation. So ought we not obey God while we can, not for death's sake, but for life's sake.

I'm sorry of I'm getting off topic here. I do understand that the Passover is a meal of rememberance, and not sacrifice in the Levitical sense. To me, the Passover represents freedom from the old ways and introduction into a covenant promised by God that was given to Abraham, that He will bring His people out of bondage and to a place where His people will freely worship Him.
 
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