Is Christianity a Negative Religion?

[lunamoth]

Luna, I hope this slight op-ed bit is understood in the spirit in which it is intended, because I think it says a great deal (for me, at least) about what is one of the fastest ways to turn off another person, about Christianity. It's not just Christianity, it's anyone, really, who says one thing, yet behaves in another way entirely.

Yup, I sure wish I fit into my Jesus suit better.

Galations 3: 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Muslimwoman,

Along with you, I am a former Christian. (I am also the Theosophist that Andrew mentioned above.) I want to commend you for having the courage to follow your belief system, even if it means changing from one religion to another.

Many people do not take responsibility for their belief system. You do.

You said,

"Offend people? - how offensive can you get?"

--> You are right — we must point out these offenses, even at the risk of losing friendships. Having said that, we must admire Luna for starting this thread, and giving us this platform to point out such offenses, even when s/he holds Christianity so dearly

 

[Muslimwoman]

Oh that's a very good post.

Thankyou Lunamoth.

I think we could find even more similarities if we were to look for them.

I could give you pages of them, it is one of my 'things' to look for similarities between the religions. I believe if we are really to coexist we have to stop concentrating on what is different and starting looking at what is the same.

Perhaps that could be a topic within this thread or maybe a new thread - we each have to name a similarity between our religion and at least one other?

Salaam

 

[Muslimwoman]

Muslimwoman,

Along with you, I am a former Christian. (I am also the Theosophist that Andrew mentioned above.) I want to commend you for having the courage to follow your belief system, even if it means changing from one religion to another.

Many people do not take responsibility for their belief system. You do.

You said,

"Offend people? - how offensive can you get?"

--> You are right — we must point out these offenses, even at the risk of losing friendships. Having said that, we must admire Luna for starting this thread, and giving us this platform to point out such offenses, even when s/he holds Christianity so dearly

as salaam alaykum Nick

Thank you very much for your kind words. I try to just listen to my heart (no, not my mind because it is biased toward my own desires) but I read something and my heart simply tells me if it is right or wrong (gosh I sound like a bit of a fruitcake now )

To be honest the change has not always been an easy one to accept, because of the misinterpretations of the Quran in order to satisfy the desires of man. However, I am much more comfortable within Islam (largely due to the modest way we live) as long as I can keep the radicals at bay.

Please forgive my utter ignorance but all I can remember reading about Theosophists is that you believe there is some truth in all religion because it is just man trying to connect, in different ways, with the creator - is that right? Note to self - read more!!!

Salaam

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Muslimwoman,

You said,

"Please forgive my utter ignorance but all I can remember reading about Theosophists is that you believe there is some truth in all religion because it is just man trying to connect, in different ways, with the creator - is that right?"

--> Here are a few quick facts for you about Theosophy.

According to Theosophy, all religions come from the same source.

Theosophists believe in something called the Absolute rather than God. There is a creator deity in Theosophy, but, He, too, comes from the Absolute. Theosophy teaches againt the anthropomorphizing of the Absolute.

Theosophy is described as a pantheistic philosophy rather than a monotheistic philosophy.

 

[Muslimwoman]

Thank you Nick. Most interesting, if a little confusing to a first timer on the subject.

Muslimwoman,According to Theosophy, all religions come from the same source..

Nothing I would disagree with there. What in your belief is the source?

Theosophists believe in something called the Absolute rather than God. There is a creator deity in Theosophy, but, He, too, comes from the Absolute. Theosophy teaches againt the anthropomorphizing of the Absolute.

But surely you must speculate about what the Absolute is, isn't it human nature to question this? Would it be akin to Nirvana?

When you say there is a creator deity, it sounds as though this is just one, do you believe in multiple deities?

Salaam

 

[17th Angel]

Nothing I would disagree with there. What in your belief is the source?

Man.

 

[Dondi]

The final straw was when I realised that man (as always) had taken it upon themselves to add to the word of G-d. One good example is Leviticus 21:16-23 - disabled people are not allowed to 'approach to offer the food of G-d' i.e., approach the altar. It just went against everything I had been taught about being a Christian. I felt that not only should they approach but we should help them get there.

As an aside, I wish to address this issue, though like Luna said, I'm sure BB is far better versed in the Torah than I am.

One thing for sure is that when you approach the scriptures at any one point, it is important to look at the passage in context. I could not emphasize more how important this is, for many erroneous doctrines and misconceptions arise from this lack of perspective (even in Jewish and Christian circles).

In Leviticus 16, we have a description of the priestly duties of Aaron, Moses' brother, who has been appointed High Priest for the people of Israel. As High Priest, Aaron is the only one in all of Israel who can appoarch the mercy seat of God in what was known in the Tabernacle as the Holy of Holies, named such because it represented the Presence of God. Moreover, Aaron could only enter once a year on the Day of Atonement to pour the sacrificial blood (which was made from an unblemished animal) on the mercy seat of God to satisfy the requirement to atone for the sins of the people.

But Aaron could not just waltz right into the Holy of Holies. Much preparation of ritual cleansing and procedures must have been met before he could enter in, lest he die.

Now fast forward to the passage in question, Leviticus 21:16-23. Since Aaron was appointed High Priest, by virtue of the fact that Aaron would not live forever, that priestly office was passed down to Aaron's sons. So like the unblemished animal that was sacrificed, Aaron's sons could not fulfill the priestly duties of the Tabernacle if they were anyway blemished. For since God is Holy and Perfect, anything that the priests did in fulfilling the Levitical Law must be made perfect.

So the passage in question only pertains to the priestly function of Aaron's sons in the performance of the sacrificial duties, for the nature of God warrented that. It had nothing to do with disabled people not being allowed to worship God or be part of the congregation.

I just wanted to bring that up.

In fact, in regards to Christianity, Jesus was very compassionate to the lame, the leper, and the sicky, healing them all wherever He went, even healing the lame while they were in the Temple, which suggests that they had access to God in Jesus' time.

 

[Nick the Pilot]

Muslimwoman,

You asked,

"What in your belief is the source?

--> I am not sure what you are asking. The source is the Absolute.

"But surely you must speculate about what the Absolute is, isn't it human nature to question this?"

--> It is. However, we are told such questions are fruitless. We have been told the finite mind cannot understand the infinite.

"Would it be akin to Nirvana?"

--> No, Nirvana is completely different, and is a core teaching within Theosophy.

"When you say there is a creator deity, it sounds as though this is just one, do you believe in multiple deities?"

--> Please read my post #26 in this thread.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/pentateuch-wisdom-6950-2.html#post100140

 

[Muslimwoman]

In fact, in regards to Christianity, Jesus was very compassionate to the lame, the leper, and the sicky, healing them all wherever He went, even healing the lame while they were in the Temple, which suggests that they had access to God in Jesus' time.

Thank you dondi that was very enlightening. It leaves me with the question of where on earth you could find an unblemished person but at least now I understand the context. Thanks for taking the time to explain.

This was my difficulty, I had been taught that Jesus (pbuh) was the most decent of people and treated everyone the same, so I couldnt reconcile that with what I had read about leviticus.

Just goes to show us all though, I spend so much time telling people to put it into context when they quote a small verse of the Quran This is how misconceptions are born.

Salaam

 

[Muslimwoman]

Muslimwoman,

You asked,

"What in your belief is the source?

--> I am not sure what you are asking. The source is the Absolute.

"But surely you must speculate about what the Absolute is, isn't it human nature to question this?"

--> It is. However, we are told such questions are fruitless. We have been told the finite mind cannot understand the infinite.

"Would it be akin to Nirvana?"

--> No, Nirvana is completely different, and is a core teaching within Theosophy.

"When you say there is a creator deity, it sounds as though this is just one, do you believe in multiple deities?"

--> Please read my post #26 in this thread.

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/pentateuch-wisdom-6950-2.html#post100140http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/pentateuch-wisdom-6950-2.html#post100140

Wow Nick, think I need a lie down and rest after that one, my brain blew a fuse or two. Interesting stuff, it seems to encompass so many ideas that are core parts of other religions.

I certainly agree that it is fruitless to try to imagine G-d (but must admit sometimes I am just daft enough to try - the nearest I get is an enormous mass of energy).

Salaam

 

[shadowman]

it is very negative. Most religions are. They propose that humans need fixing.

Chrisitanity says we are all terrible sinners, wicked people. Deserving aweful judgement against a god that is perfect in everyway and can not exist in the same place as us.

we need salvation. we need to be saved. we are all worthy of hell. we are constantly told by christianity that god loves us, as if this is an amazing revelation or an unexpected occurance, infact its almost a warning. "hey buddy, JESUS LOVES YOU so WATCH OUT or you'll GO TO HEEEEELLLLLL!"

I think its a religion of doom and gloom and teaches self hate. (obviously since self is opposite to god, who is the source of all good)

and every human construct is worthless

math science art music movies theater culture history writing its all rubbish, it means squat compared to the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Thomas]

it is very negative...

You sure it might not be you who's negative?

math science art music movies theater culture history writing its all rubbish, it means squat compared to the kingdom of heaven.

Unless, of course, it's in the service of the kingdom of heaven, in which case it can be sublime?

There is a difference between negativism and pessimism, and I think your post falls into the latter category ... I see a lot wrong, certainly, but I see a lot right, and I am an optimist – Christianity demands that I be.

"Amen I say to you, whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God
as a little child shall not enter into it." Mark 10:15

You need to find your 'inner child' shadowman, you need to discover the wonder of God's creation ...

Thomas

 

[Snoopy]

math science art music movies theater culture history writing its all rubbish

Reminds me of Rubbish Dad from the Fast Show.

"Take That? Take That? Take what? It's bloody rubbish!"

s.

 

[17th Angel]

it is very negative. Most religions are. They propose that humans need fixing.

Chrisitanity says we are all terrible sinners, wicked people. Deserving aweful judgement against a god that is perfect in everyway and can not exist in the same place as us.

we need salvation. we need to be saved. we are all worthy of hell. we are constantly told by christianity that god loves us, as if this is an amazing revelation or an unexpected occurance, infact its almost a warning. "hey buddy, JESUS LOVES YOU so WATCH OUT or you'll GO TO HEEEEELLLLLL!"

I think its a religion of doom and gloom and teaches self hate. (obviously since self is opposite to god, who is the source of all good)

and every human construct is worthless

math science art music movies theater culture history writing its all rubbish, it means squat compared to the kingdom of heaven.

Seeing the light brah..

 

[Dondi]

it is very negative. Most religions are. They propose that humans need fixing.

Chrisitanity says we are all terrible sinners, wicked people. Deserving aweful judgement against a god that is perfect in everyway and can not exist in the same place as us.

we need salvation. we need to be saved. we are all worthy of hell. we are constantly told by christianity that god loves us, as if this is an amazing revelation or an unexpected occurance, infact its almost a warning. "hey buddy, JESUS LOVES YOU so WATCH OUT or you'll GO TO HEEEEELLLLLL!"

I think its a religion of doom and gloom and teaches self hate. (obviously since self is opposite to god, who is the source of all good)

and every human construct is worthless

math science art music movies theater culture history writing its all rubbish, it means squat compared to the kingdom of heaven.

You should try to see the glass half full, for once, shadow. The fact is that one day we will DIE (Thanks Adam, though I can't really blame him, for man was probably going to fall anyway). Which means we are limited creatures with just a few years here on earth before becoming fertilizer in some lush cemetery somewhere. Not very encouraging, but that's the reality. The HOPE is that God will raise us up to a new incorruptable life. There are promises there to encourage us that this does not have to be the end. The differnece is that with God's Spirit inside, we will be able to live the life Adam couldn't. There will be no more pain, no more sorrow, no more tears in the Kingdom of Heaven. That's good news, man.

The question is, how does one obtain God's Spirit?

 

[Tao_Equus]

The fact is that one day we will DIE

Hmmm I'm really not so sure. I certainly know we cant prove it as a fact. Given that time is an illusion and the progression of life from birth to death is part of a linear movement through that illusion it is not all certain that we 'die'. One thing about 'preachers' though, they do tend to make out they know one hell (forgive me the pun), of a lot more than they do. And I am largely in agreement with Shadowman on this.

 

[Dondi]

Hmmm I'm really not so sure. I certainly know we cant prove it as a fact. Given that time is an illusion and the progression of life from birth to death is part of a linear movement through that illusion it is not all certain that we 'die'. One thing about 'preachers' though, they do tend to make out they know one hell (forgive me the pun), of a lot more than they do. And I am largely in agreement with Shadowman on this.

I don't get it. I haven't known anyone who hasn't died physically when their time has some. I went to a funeral recently, I can most certainly tell you that death is NOT an illusion. All men and women will eventually. The fact is that we have family and friends that are no longer here, you cannot see them anymore, they are no longer in the sphere of existence, so there is a sort of a finality to seeing one lowered in the grave. I was really trying to make that point in response to shadowman's post. If you have some conviction that death is an illusion, that's fine, but we won't find out if it is until we are gone from this life.

 

[Tao_Equus]

I don't get it. I haven't known anyone who hasn't died physically when their time has some. I went to a funeral recently, I can most certainly tell you that death is NOT an illusion. All men and women will eventually. The fact is that we have family and friends that are no longer here, you cannot see them anymore, they are no longer in the sphere of existence, so there is a sort of a finality to seeing one lowered in the grave. I was really trying to make that point in response to shadowman's post. If you have some conviction that death is an illusion, that's fine, but we won't find out if it is until we are gone from this life.

And probably not then either.

I personaly dont discount anything. The special theory of relativity is a well tested theory that seems to have some merit in it. Its certainly as good a theory as any we have into the nature of space/time. I have given some thought to how it relates to our perception of linearity of time and it seems to me that as a mass we are still stuck on the old Newtonian ideas of 3 absolute dimensions with an independent universal time. But this is clearly not the case. Certainly the way you describe our lives is within the structure of that old theory.

I would liken our reality to a rollercoster ride. Once you are on and strapped in and that chain has pulled you up the first hill then there is nothing else percieved but the ride till the ride is over. As you hurtle down the set path of these rails the intensity of the experience allows for few observations outwith that experience. We might feel fear, or look to the heavens and attempt to pray, or feel our guts churn. But first and above all the ride is all consuming. There is no universe outside of the experience till eventually the brakes come on.
"For we convinced physicists, the distinction between past present and future is only an illusion however persistent" Einstein.
Its maybe not the best analogy, and maybe I am thinking my thick head up my own backside, but I 'feel' and, on a very few occasions, have experienced a breakdown of my standard linear perceptions. These have led me to question. I do not believe this Birth, School, Work, Death is not real, but neither do I believe it to be the entirety of reality. But then I'm a Pisces dreamer


Regards

TE

 

[Snoopy]

But then I'm a Pisces dreamer

Ah yes, I know the feeling.

s.