Discussion in 'Alternative' started by 17th Angel, May 18, 2007.
I thought that was going to be along the lines of your answer.. lol.
My brothers and sisters treating you and the land well?
Funny you should mention that actually brother, The police were up there last night and the fire service... I think they are going to be moved along.
To a degree they did bring it on themselves... They started a fire, which in a word is a light description lol.... It ended up burning most of the field and if the services didn't get there you could have easily seen it spreading through the bush into the CSA which was just over the hedge from it.. Not the best of places in the filed to start a fire, specially the size it was...
But yeah apart from that they are harmless lol... I have never seen so many dogs though!
It was just a little bonfire....
Sometimes it gets outta hand...
hehe awesome pics
That picture of the fire though lol that is nothing compared to the thing they had created... Did you take these pics?
No but somewhere I've got some that we took that the flames were scorching the branches 50' in the air...
and then of course there is burning man...
You need open space for a fire
Burning man? Like a wicker man? Or just burning, man... lol
nope burning man
I am gonna have to go ask them about that!
crimerate does not rise that much, they do their bit, but mostly they dont get involved in anithing that can actually hurt you, in fact they ususally go for big useles things like decomisioned industrial generators or old raylway tracks
they steal as much as anyone else that can afford to steal
they have the kind of jobs people will give a gypsy
they are mostly self imployed, meaning they make ends meet, meaning noone knows what they do but it usually has to do with trading in waste, metal and old machine parts, and recently anithing made in china
they also play good music
at leats thats how the balkan gypsies are, harmless, and actually doing an important service in waste recicling
in bigger european cittyes there are well organised networks of beggers, often involving children, and things tend to be wery bad
no one would want to live near a nomadic camp, and calling the police is a legal option you can take if you ask someone to move from private property and they refuse to do so
what you did is what most people anywhere would do
there are gypsies in my neighborhood and as with any other nation or nationality there are no problems whatsoever, they are mostly ok people, as most people are
still i dont think i would like a group of nomadic people of anny kind settling near my house, and i dont think the neighbours would like the smell or the noise, or the piled up garbage, and would do exactly the same as you did
but the problem is bigger than that, much more complicated, and not realy the fault of those people that camped near your nice area
the problem of the gypsy population specifically is extremely complicated
it is arrogant, iresponcible and idiotically shortsighted how gypsies are treated by most goverment or legal authorities
this problem is more serious than it might seem as it concerns more important questions than the ocasional theft or fire, and is olnly made worse by treating humans like stray animals
on one hand gypsies are humans as any other, with all human rights and all human capabilities
on the other hand one can see why individuals and society feels prejudice and sometimes animosity thowards them
they truly live in apaling conditions, their way of life revolves around recicling all kinds of waste, organised begging, selling smugled goods, and various other illegal activities
whenever a group of gypsies settles near a nice neighborhood people know they can expect excrements pouring into the gutter, packs of stray dogs and half naked children running around, garbage of all kinds and old machinery piling up
apaling smell and health-hazards
loud music and yelling
agressive and violent behaviour
or even stealing, godforbid
as most gypsies have little or no education, and seeing the enviroment they are raised in, no one can rationally expect them to be "nice" and "polite" and "plesant company" in the way the nice and good comon people living in developed western consumer capitalism are used to
subsequently none of the nice comon people try to comunicate with them
infact the first solution the nice, good, christian people living in the nice neighborhood can think of is call in the cops, buldose the *******s, thatl teach them to live in a democratic state
afcourse this still means they can go and settle somwhere else, so a lot of people would maybe even prefer una solucione piu finale, no?
the problem with all this is not so much the imediate debasement and violence against basic human dignity, or the violence of the state agains defencles people, or the mentality of the average nice christian comon person, the real and much more longterm problem is that this sets a dangerous presedan, begets a dangerous way of thinking, or not thinking
because this, extrapolated into future reference, means human dignity, and even human life why not, if caught outside the legal or the comonly acepted, is valued as much as that of stray cattle, this means a place, not visible from anny nice area, can be made where humans can be dumped by the hundreds, and as long as the smell and loud noises do not disturb the sensibilities of the nice comon people, and it does not get alot of media coverage, no one much will care
this means that humans found out of place, or without enough financial backing to buy a place, might as well become criminals as that is how society will treat them
it means people can find soemone to concentrate their fear and frustration on, instead of concetrating on real problems and the people causing them
it is alvais intersting how much fuss is made each time some japanese or american or german laboratory gives the news they have some new thing they will do to stem cells or embrios, how much concern is voiced on human dignity and human life, but when human dignity is buldosed and human life kicked around, wheres all the voiced concern then?
this is realy more relevant than the other problems
obviously such a population should be educated at goverment expence
obviously such a population should recive goverment incentives
obviously anny society should at least make a honest effort to integrate these people as equal citisens
obvioulsy a person or persons ilegaly trespasing on private property or being ilegaly within the borders of a soverin state, can legaly be expulled or deportated by the authorities of that state, but this should be done as if human beings are concerned not biological waste
but how can a society be expected to achive anny of that if it is normal for people to be treated like stray animals
and if someone thinks this stops at gypsies, romanians, marrocans, whichewer group of humans is considered surplus in the given society, if someone thinks its safe and that those like him or her cannot be put in the same cage, that person is just being silly
im sorry if this sounds like preaching
im sure youre just as good and wellintentioned a person as the next
im not saying anything against what you say you and your neighbours did, that is the logical reaction in our culture when unknown and dodgy looking people refuse to leave
calling the police to get them of private property is not something you should realy question, what you should question is why were they there in the first place? who is responcible for them being there? did they have somwhere else to go? where did they come from? why did they leave that place?
becouse humans live to be around 70 these days, meaning a human being can be dumped and kicked around for 70 years and cause problems for 70 years if noone asks why is that person a problem in the first place?
that is a long time for a society to molest and debase a human, and a long time for that human to cause problems to that society, and is all unnecessary, and can be solved at much less cost than what it takes to constantly keep check of all the humans that are ilegaly tresspasing or seen as surplus
wich anny of us can become, no one is truly safe from becoming surplus, and ending up beig arested for tresspasing or chased off by police from some nice area
also the people on the pictures, no, does are not gypsies, they might go around and live in tents(wich gypsies dont do that much) they might be nomads, but those are not in fact gypsies, definitley not Roma, those people are there on purpose and are having fun
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