We don't need 'The War Against Terror' what we need is war against sectarianism

[sam1008]

At the root of the islamist terrorist's ideology is sectarianism; the believe that their interpretation of their religion is supreme and that in order to be saved or to evan be worthwhile others must convert to it.

This sectarianism is not just within the Islamic tradition, the believe that my religion is the best or only religion and that in order to be saved others need to convert to it can be found to a lesser or greater degree in all the major faiths.

This needs to be challenged and overcome.

In order for a faith to be valid it must recognise the validity of other faiths.

 

[midnightsun]

If indeed what we read is the complete truth, then yes I do agree with you that stopping sectarianism is one aspect of stopping this insanity, but that isn't the only thing. This was more than just a "Screw you infidels," this and all
others like it is just action against suppression and unwanted "help." I'm not going to spew out your Hollywood BS "No oil for blood" crap, this is retribution for what Iraqi and Middle East, and a group of Muslims see as a invasion of Iraq and are hence sticking up for them. The US isn't sending over missionaries or building churches in Iraq, so I don't understand why it's a retribution of the invasion of Islam. Obviously, the people involved with the physical aspect of these attacks are being brainwashed by the planners and higher ups.
To your last statement, "In order for a faith to be valid it must recognise the validity of other faiths," today's Islamic sectarianism, the whole my religion is better than yours is no different if even a lot less worse than then that spewed out by the Early Catholic Church. I'm talking about during the times of Martin Luther and the indulgence period.

 

[Muslimwoman]

At the root of the islamist terrorist's ideology is sectarianism; the believe that their interpretation of their religion is supreme and that in order to be saved or to evan be worthwhile others must convert to it.

I think this is a very simplistic view Sam. The Quran teaches that there is no compulsion in religion and it teaches tollerance, so where do these people get the idea that they can force the world to convert? It is simply unIslamic and I read the Quran and wonder if I am perhaps reading a different version. If we accept that, we can see that there must be something else behind their ideology. Take the issue of terrorist attacks, they are invariably focusing on killing civilians, which is stricly forbidden in the Quran and the Sunnah. We now see the sectarian violence in Iraq, Muslim killing Muslim, again strictly forbidden, so is this really about religion or is it about which group gets the lion's share of the political power? It is one of the difficulties in Islam, that politics and religion are so closely intertwined.

This sectarianism is not just within the Islamic tradition, the believe that my religion is the best or only religion and that in order to be saved others need to convert to it can be found to a lesser or greater degree in all the major faiths.

I believe we have to exclude the Jewish faith as they do not seek converts, yet that appears not to have ceased the violence in Israel. However, yes most teach "you have to be in our gang" and I agree this has caused centuries of problems. However, communism has by far been the biggest killer of humanity in the 20th century (Mao is the biggest killer at 40 million, which far outstrips even Hitler). That in no way excuses violence in the name of religion but perhaps puts it into perspective a little?

This needs to be challenged and overcome.
In order for a faith to be valid it must recognise the validity of other faiths.

Well I never thought I would see some of the things the Catholic faith are now bending toward, so maybe there is hope for all of us? There are a billion or so moderate Muslims, of one degree or another, but I agree this must be stopped and it is for the moderates to find ways to make their voices heard over the din of gunfire and bombs.

MW

 

[wil]

I think this is a very simplistic view Sam.

Is it? Much of the sectarian violence in the world has been between sects of one religion...not always between one religion and the world. Like Sunni/Shiia...whether it is more political or more religious the border line of this dispute is sectarian.

You claim the terrorists are not Islamic, while I tend to agree with you, isn't this also by definition a sectarian dispute?

You are there, and we are here and I am the eggman....so you really have your finger on the pulse more than I....but sometimes I think what we need is simplicity.

 

[sam1008]

Hi Muslimwoman thanks for your responce,

I think this is a very simplistic view Sam. The Quran teaches that there is no compulsion in religion and it teaches tollerance, so where do these people get the idea that they can force the world to convert? It is simply unIslamic and I read the Quran and wonder if I am perhaps reading a different version.

I agree that the 'islamist' terrorists, who say they are Islamic, are not Islamic they are actually the enemy of Islam and are just as willing to kill muslims as they are anybody else they don't agree with.

Their aim is to divide people, they want to make us choose sides: 'Are you with Islam or are you with the West?'.

Unfortunately the US responce to islamist terrorism so far has played into their hands provoking less extreme muslims to sympathise or join with the islamists against the west.

In order to defeat the 'islamists' Western leaders instead of saying 'We will stand firm and fight!' should say 'We will listen what are your your grievances?'. They will not be able to engage in dialogue with the actual 'islamists' because there's no reasoning with fanatics but they can engage in dialogue with the Islamic world and in this way undermine the 'islamists' by taking away any popular support they might have.

However, communism has by far been the biggest killer of humanity in the 20th century (Mao is the biggest killer at 40 million, which far outstrips even Hitler). That in no way excuses violence in the name of religion but perhaps puts it into perspective a little?

I'm not suggesting sectarianism and bigotry belongs only to the religious faiths, believing that ones idealogy is the only way and forcing it upon others is also prevalent in non-religious faiths such as communism and democracy.

Essentially what I'm saying is: there is a struggle going on between intolerance and tolerance, between extremism and moderation, between narrow-mindedness and open-mindedness, between sectarianism and non-sectarianism. This struggle is going on in peoples minds as well as in the world.

From this perspective you could say Bin Laden and Bush are actually on the same side they both believe in the supremacy of their own idealogy and their own way of life, they both have an 'us and them' mentality and say 'Your either with us or against us' and they both believe their killing is justified by their cause.

I believe we have to exclude the Jewish faith as they do not seek converts, yet that appears not to have ceased the violence in Israel.

Elements of the Jewish faith also believe they are supreme although they don't seek converts they do believe that they are exclusively God's chosen people and use this to help justify their colonisation of Palestine.

Well I never thought I would see some of the things the Catholic faith are now bending toward, so maybe there is hope for all of us?

I agree the Catholics have come a long way and most Catholics are non-sectarian but the Vatican is still sectarian. At the millenium the previous Pope spoke of converting Asia to Christianity in this millenium like they converted the other continents in the previous milleniums. They don't really accept other denominations of Christianity let alone other religions, their doctine is still that Christian Catholism is the one true faith and that all others are to a greater or lesser degree misguided - although I must stress that in my experience most Catholics including the clergy do not believe this and are less sectarian than most of the fundamentalist or evangelical christian sects.

There are a billion or so moderate Muslims, of one degree or another, but I agree this must be stopped and it is for the moderates to find ways to make their voices heard over the din of gunfire and bombs.

Moderate non-muslims in the west also need to learn to understand Islam and demonstrate that we do respect it, we need to acknowledge that Islam is part of our own heritage and culture and is not alien to us.

 

[Neemai]

This is potentially a bit of a far-fetched and controversial theory, and more to do with politics than religion, but: What if the 'Islamic' terrorists are actually being funded, trained and inspired by the big money men behind the western governments in an attempt to unite and control the people of their own countries (through fear) and as an excuse to wage war wherever they like because ultimately war is better for the aggressor's economy (it promotes industry and research)?

... N

 

[Dondi]

This is potentially a bit of a far-fetched and controversial theory, and more to do with politics than religion, but: What if the 'Islamic' terrorists are actually being funded, trained and inspired by the big money men behind the western governments in an attempt to unite and control the people of their own countries (through fear) and as an excuse to wage war wherever they like because ultimately war is better for the aggressor's economy (it promotes industry and research)?

... N

I don't know how you can say that this is more politics than religion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Islam embedded in every aspect of culture, lifestyle, and politics. We in the west tend to compartmentalize our religion and politics, but for Islam, I don't think there is such a distinction.

 

[wil]

I don't know how you can say that this is more politics than religion. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Islam embedded in every aspect of culture, lifestyle, and politics. We in the west tend to compartmentalize our religion and politics, but for Islam, I don't think there is such a distinction.

I think it depends on the state/country. Iran under the Shah, Iraq under Saddam, were Islamic nations...but without Islam in political power and in the judiciary. Many countries do have as you state...and here in the US there is large contingent of our population that would like us to be a Christian Nation, and judges and supreme court rule based on biblical rather than constitutional authority.

When I looked up Sectarian violence I read a reference that said the Protestant v. Catholic in Northern Ireland was also more political than religious, how exactly the Sunni/Shiia is more political than religious I don't know...but that is what I hear constantly from those that are there...

 

[sam1008]

What if the 'Islamic' terrorists are actually being funded, trained and inspired by the big money men behind the western governments in an attempt to unite and control the people of their own countries (through fear) and as an excuse to wage war wherever they like because ultimately war is better for the aggressor's economy (it promotes industry and research)?

... N

Initially Bin ladens mob were funded by Ronald Reagan and the US through Pakistan so they could drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan (a conflict which caused over a million deaths).

And I suppose if by big money men behind the western goverments you mean the Saudi oil barons then that would be correct as it is the Saudi's (the long time allies of the West) who have funded the spread of extremist Islam.

The weapons industry is the number one industry in the US and in the UK and we are the worlds two biggest weapons manufacturers so we do have a vested interest in conflict and I think there is something in what your saying about an enemy and a war being useful ways of controlling people.

But I don't believe there's a coordinated conspiracy, I don't think the western governments, intelligence agencies or their money men are in agreement enough to pursue such a policy and keep it under their hats.

I think its more to do with incompetance than conspiracy.

 

[Neemai]

I don't know how you can say that this is more politics than religion.

Hi Dondi - I was referring to my comment not being a religious one, not the thread topic . Mix up in my wording I think.

... Neemai

 

[wil]

But I don't believe there's a coordinated conspiracy, I don't think the western governments, intelligence agencies or their money men are in agreement enough to pursue such a policy and keep it under their hats.

I think its more to do with incompetance than conspiracy.

I think greed...the almighty dollar, pound or krugerand, another million or billion in the bank...reality is this goes all the way down to the factory worker who is making the landmine or computer board for the guided missle...he may not support the war or the war effort...he/she just wants to feed their family.

And the further one can separate themselves from the actuality or justify their actions in some way...when it comes back to haunt us like Bin Laden or the fall of the Shah, or Noriega, or Hitler (Kennedy, Ford...countless folks funded him)....we are always....always shocked and are positive that we had nothing to do with it... even though that cruise missile's silicone chip says "quality checked by wil"

(note, I don't make cruise missile chips...but I am acknowledging that I am part of the problem...a cog in the wheel)

 

[Muslimwoman]

Their aim is to divide people, they want to make us choose sides: 'Are you with Islam or are you with the West?'.

My apologies Sam, I had misunderstood what you were saying in your first post and yes agree completely with this statement, which is of course sectarianism.

Unfortunately the US responce to islamist terrorism so far has played into their hands provoking less extreme muslims to sympathise or join with the islamists against the west.

Very much so. I watched people (the man on the street) last year who had no interest in politics and referred to extremists as crazy people prior to the war between Israel and Lebanon. Even then they seemed unphased, as it was 'normal'. However, the day that sticks in my mind is the news report where Bush stood in front of boxes of supplies for Israel and "declared his unwavering support for the Israeli government". Now that struck a chord with the ordinary man on the street. The usual response was "USA is supplying technical weapons for Israel and Lebanon has a few home made rockets. The world is watching while a country is being bombed out of existence and they do nothing". The extremists gained a lot of grass roots support that day. The BIG news items that effect the people here are things like the issue of school girls in the west not allowed to cover their hair for school, that makes people here feel that the west is trying to eliminate Islam, as the loonies keep saying they are. They see this as a direct attack on Islam and the loonies use these issues to gain support and yes it works.

At the start of this war I verbally supported the west and tried to make excuses for their actions. Then one day my husband found me doing embroidery and I stuck it on the wall of his shop. It was a small piece of cloth with the number 106 embroidered on. That is the number of the coffin for a 1 day old baby that had been bombed by Israel, I shall never forget this and it has certainly changed my views toward the wests policies in the Middle East.

In order to defeat the 'islamists' Western leaders instead of saying 'We will stand firm and fight!' should say 'We will listen what are your your grievances?'. They will not be able to engage in dialogue with the actual 'islamists' because there's no reasoning with fanatics but they can engage in dialogue with the Islamic world and in this way undermine the 'islamists' by taking away any popular support they might have.

One problem here, as I said above the grass roots people are now starting to believe that the west is trying to destroy Islam. Not by the war on terror, which most here support but by the small issues as I mentioned above. The west has to start educating itself about the real Islam, the Islam of the guy working in the post office or a waiter in a coffee shop. Universities are the bedrock of extremism, so we need to listen and understand this generations grievances. One way to start would be to deal with some of the anti Muslim rubbish that is bandied around in the west. We stopped racial slurrs years ago, so why not do the same with religious ones?

Essentially what I'm saying is: there is a struggle going on between intolerance and tolerance, between extremism and moderation, between narrow-mindedness and open-mindedness, between sectarianism and non-sectarianism. This struggle is going on in peoples minds as well as in the world.

I accept this and I really wish I could see a way forward. Bush & Blair invaded an arab country, whose regime they had instigated and supported, based on a total lie. They still support the Israeli government despite their horrendous track record of flouting international law. For me the first question would be why should the arab nations believe a single word the west says? The second issue, imho, is for the west to stop using stupid words, pay some moderate Muslims to write the scripts re the Middle East - Ms Rice and her "new map of the Middle East" (which translates to people here as we, the west, are going to decide what the Mid East will look and act like) , Mr Bush and his "complete support for Israel" (translates as, we don't care what they do as long as they win and beat the arabs) and Mr Blair with "please accept a knighthood Sir Rushdie" (translates as we the british people support his anti Islamic stance and are advertising that support). Can you imagine, as an arab person, how insulting it is to appoint Mr Blair as 'peace' envoy to the middle east, to the average man or woman on the street it is beyond belief, while Iraqi's are still dying every day thanks to his policies and lies. I can see why arabs feel offended and threatened.

Moderate non-muslims in the west also need to learn to understand Islam and demonstrate that we do respect it, we need to acknowledge that Islam is part of our own heritage and culture and is not alien to us.

Thank you and I hope more people choose to follow your way of thinking. If only our political leaders could see this issue as you do.

 

[Muslimwoman]

This is potentially a bit of a far-fetched and controversial theory, and more to do with politics than religion, but: What if the 'Islamic' terrorists are actually being funded, trained and inspired by the big money men behind the western governments in an attempt to unite and control the people of their own countries (through fear) and as an excuse to wage war wherever they like because ultimately war is better for the aggressor's economy (it promotes industry and research)?

... N

Not at all Neemai. My father in law and I often have this conversation and neither of us are consiracy theorist followers and both very moderate Muslims. The west has a lot more to gain by a divided Middle East, than it does from a united, peaceful one. The arab countries with the money and resources have one big failing, lack of manpower. The poor arab countries have a staggering amount of manpower but little in the way of economic growth and revenue. Now, put them all together into one large, united group and what do you get - a superpower. They have the resources, the finances and the manpower to be a real threat to the current world order. I am not saying they sit in secret meetings planning how to keep the mid east divided but I have no doubt they put little effort into really trying to find a peaceful conclusion to the middle east crisis.

 

[Muslimwoman]

I am so sorry I am posting so much here but as you can imagine it is a very important issue for me.

I wanted to add something about big and small issues here. Wars come and go, here more frequently than most places, so people are angered or upset but it is temporary.

Now take what appears to be a small issue in the west, the "religious symbol" of wearing the hijab. When is the west going to understand that this is not just a religious symbol? A silly example, imagine you come from a very close family and in your culture 'nice' girls are tatooed on the forehead with the word "nice" and naughty girls are tatooed with the word "slut". You have a younger sister whose honour is paramount to the family and the school she goes to decides to remove the word nice on her forehead and replace it with the word slut. How would you feel? The issue isn't so much about the piece of cloth we cover our hair with, it is about our right to wear it, as our tatoo that states we are 'nice' girls. For some Muslim girls to be told to remove their hijab is the same as saying "walk in the street naked", it is an attack on her modesty and dignity, not on her religion.

Role change, you are now an arab, living in the middle east. You turn on your tv after dinner and the news says that France, England, wherever, have banned girls from wearing the hijab in school. What do you think? Do you see it as "we don't want religious issues in school" or do you see it as "we don't want Muslims in our school. You can stay if you behave like us."? Arabs are much more offended by this tye of issue than by war, to them the west is trying to make young Muslim girls walk in the street half naked. That may seem extreme to you or I but it is how they see it, we have to try to see the world through their eyes.

Salaam

 

[KarimK]

Sam,

Essentially what I'm saying is: there is a struggle going on between intolerance and tolerance, between extremism and moderation, between narrow-mindedness and open-mindedness, between sectarianism and non-sectarianism. This struggle is going on in peoples minds as well as in the world.

I think you summed up the core of the problem. In fact, I think you summed up the core of today's numerous problems. I think that in a way, all our boundaries and points of anchor are blurred and there's a problem with deciding what's right, what's acceptable and what is good. The fact that many different cultures live together - or communicate or have all sorts of interactions together is a huge problem : we've come to a place where political correctness and open-mindedness and moral relativism are so prevalent that we have no idea what the basis for common values are.

I'd say the problem is that we're struggling to create common grounds for new values and we're failing. And ethnocentrism (on all sides) is creating sectarianism, because the other is constantly seen as a threat.

MW,

Universities are the bedrock of extremism

Isn't that appalling. and depressing. and horrendous. [insert other random pejorative word]

Now take what appears to be a small issue in the west, the "religious symbol" of wearing the hijab. When is the west going to understand that this is not just a religious symbol? A silly example, imagine you come from a very close family and in your culture 'nice' girls are tatooed on the forehead with the word "nice" and naughty girls are tatooed with the word "slut". You have a younger sister whose honour is paramount to the family and the school she goes to decides to remove the word nice on her forehead and replace it with the word slut. How would you feel? The issue isn't so much about the piece of cloth we cover our hair with, it is about our right to wear it, as our tatoo that states we are 'nice' girls. For some Muslim girls to be told to remove their hijab is the same as saying "walk in the street naked", it is an attack on her modesty and dignity, not on her religion.

Role change, you are now an arab, living in the middle east. You turn on your tv after dinner and the news says that France, England, wherever, have banned girls from wearing the hijab in school. What do you think? Do you see it as "we don't want religious issues in school" or do you see it as "we don't want Muslims in our school. You can stay if you behave like us."? Arabs are much more offended by this tye of issue than by war, to them the west is trying to make young Muslim girls walk in the street half naked. That may seem extreme to you or I but it is how they see it, we have to try to see the world through their eyes.

I don't agree. At all, in fact.
I followed this issue closely in France (I don't really know how it went in the UK), and my mind just BLEW UP by all the ambient political correctness. France is one of the most truly secular countries in the world - that's something I'm proud of, even if in the countryside some sort of xenophobia exists.

There is no reason to walk on eggshells with the hijab. In France it is forbidden to have any clear, visible sign of religious affiliation of any sort, except in private schools. Christians aren't allowed to sport an obvious cross around their necks. Jews aren't allowed to wear kippas. Muslim girls aren't allowed to wear hijab.
Now I'm acutely aware of the fact that it IS a delicate issue and that it IS perceived as a means of demeaning and destroying Islam. But it is not so. ESPECIALLY not in France. The French have their fair share of racism, xenophobia, redneck bigoted catholicism, but forbidding the hijab (well. forbidding as I said ANY sign of religious affiliation) is totally fair and right.

As for the people who can't put up with it? Hey, Christians go to private Christian schools, Jews go to private Jewish schools (I'd say in both these cases it also encourages another form of sectarianism, so it's also a problem), and now, Muslims are beginning to go to their own, private schools, where a girl can wear a hijab and nobody says anything!
It's not like the State is coming into our homes and telling : "EeeeeEEEEEEeEEeevil! You have a cross! A hijab! A kippa! Die, die, die!"

This law was made because it is FRENCH mentality. France IS the country of the Enlightenment, the Revolution, of SECULARISM. If I'm not mistaken, France is the only country with Turkey that has the word "secularism" ( --> [FONT=&quot]laïcité in French. I believe there is no proper equivalent in English of this word, the hallmark of France imo).

Banning the hijab was perceived as a direct assault on Islam. Yet another Western attack on our culture.
Well, f**k that. France is THE European country that has been standing alongside the Arabs since the 1960's (1967, the 6 days war.). I think the Muslim population in France is one of the highest in Europe. (not sure about that one though). Just switch on the mainstream French channels, and you'll see that Arabs and/or Muslims are NOT rejected by French society.

I didn't see any Jews riot because they couldn't wear kippas. Okay, granted, maybe most French Jews (I'm not partial to them, by the way really, really not) can afford to go to private schools whereas most French Muslims can't. That's true, and this should be taken into account. But hell! The girl who refuses to let go of her hijab when she goes into school (this school, who, by the way, is supposed to teach her among other things French values. secularism is a French value.) is stating that she refuses to abide by French standards.

I know very well how it is perceived in the Arab and Muslim world (heyyy, I live there after all), but I think the law banning the wearing of all objects/clothes/accessories that show your religious affiliation is totally legitimate.

MW, I know how *some* Muslims feel that not wearing the hijab is like being naked. I know how *sometimes* girls (Muslims girls) not wearing the hijab are seen as sluts. Well, the people who think that, they have no place in France. It's as simple, clear-cut as that. This is not xenophobia (that'd be kind of hard on my part now, wouldn't it?) or Muslims-hating (also hard) , or anything. It's just common sense.

The Muslims living in France (Europe? I honestly don't know how it is with other European countries. I thought that in the UK it wasn't a problem, right?) should see the world through the eyes of the French, not the other way 'round.
Okay, forget I ever said that. They ARE French. This is part of their culture. One has to decide which part of the original culture one wants to keep and which part one ones to let go.

If there is one thing I hate about France it's their slimy, gooey, icky political correctness.

Wow, I ranted a lot there. It's just an issue that means a lot to me, like you, MW, because I'm caught up between two radically different cultures, and at first, it really wasn't obvious to me that this law was legitimate. Yet, after thinking about it and discussing it with lots of people, I just realized that it was right. The only problem is that THIS particular issue is used by both Muslim extremists and by xenophobic French parties (Le Front National, for instance) : both of them encourage people to create a shell to completely ignore, fear and "protect" rolleyes themselves against the other that is a menace. Which brings us back to sectarianism. [/FONT]

 

[Muslimwoman]

[FONT=&quot]Banning the hijab was perceived as a direct assault on Islam. Yet another Western attack on our culture. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Well, f**k that. France is THE European country that has been standing alongside the Arabs since the 1960's (1967, the 6 days war.). I think the Muslim population in France is one of the highest in Europe. (not sure about that one though). Just switch on the mainstream French channels, and you'll see that Arabs and/or Muslims are NOT rejected by French society.[/FONT]

Boy am I sorry I said the word France However, you misunderstood me. I put in my post this comment:

Do you see it as "we don't want religious issues in school"

That is because I am fully aware that it is not an attack on Islam, it is an attempt by our governments to keep religious issues out of schools and make schools places for our children to learn, as they should be. Well, that is how I see it.

All I was trying to do was look at the issue through the eyes of those around me. Ask just about any Muslim scholar and he will say that if the hijab causes any difficulty that it can be removed without any shame, the role of the hijab is to protect women not cause them problems, they will also remind you that the laws of the country you live in must be followed above and beyond our religion.

So I was not trying to say that Muslims are right to feel offended by such small issues, just explain that they often do and perhaps more effort could be put into educating the Islamic world as to why these decisions are being made. Perhaps more dialogue with Islamic leaders in the country, who could themselves issue the instruction or educational information about the decision?

[FONT=&quot]

MW, I know how *some* Muslims feel that not wearing the hijab is like being naked. I know how *sometimes* girls (Muslims girls) not wearing the hijab are seen as sluts. Well, the people who think that, they have no place in France. It's as simple, clear-cut as that. This is not xenophobia (that'd be kind of hard on my part now, wouldn't it?) or Muslims-hating (also hard) , or anything. It's just common sense.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Obviously I didn't explain myself very well (or you were so busy ranting you misunderstood me ). I was not speaking about the Muslims in other countries. I was trying to explain how I see these issues are perceived back in the Middle East, by grass roots men and women. Most do not have your european understanding, or in fact mine. Then the loonie extremists come along and rant about the west trying to destroy Islam and people start to believe it. Most Egyptians have no idea what really goes on in the west, other than the news reports (same as westerners and the middle east and we know how biased the news can be), so they hear extremists ranting during Friday prayers about the "evil west making sluts of our daughters by banning the hijab" and hey presto another poor young sap ready to blow himself and others up to 'protect the honour of Islam". It was just my attempt to show how perfectly ordinary young men and women can be brought around to this way of thinking.[/FONT]

Do you understand me now? I do hope so, not sure I could take another ranting

 

[KarimK]

lol, my bad. don't worry, there'll be no other ranting. I shouldn't argue with you anyway, you could insult me in Arabic now

I just tend to go a bit crazy when I talk about some issues. You know how ranting can be very. um. you know. you get so into it you make a fool of yourself.

I'm going to shut up now.

 

[Muslimwoman]

lol, my bad. don't worry, there'll be no other ranting. I shouldn't argue with you anyway, you could insult me in Arabic now

I just tend to go a bit crazy when I talk about some issues.

I'm going to shut up now.

No please don't shut up, I love talking to you and you obviously know already I am a pretty good ranter myself. It is a highly emotional issue and one we must all get involved in if change is ever to come.

I just found the most amazing paragraph in an arabic article about terrorism:

If no attention is directed at the inciters and those who justify [these acts] then we are fated with an endless night. It is necessary to launch a serious ideological war because these youth have been brainwashed in the name of religion and as such, they must be confronted with religion so as to protect our Islamic religion.

How brilliant is that!!

 

[Muslimwoman]

I was really delighted to see that Muslims marched in Scotland against terrorism, after that awful attempt to blow up Glasgow airport. Ordinary people came out of their homes and said "this is not Islam".

There were also full page adverts in the newspapers the other day saying terrorism is not Islam and we (ordinary Muslims) object to it being done in the name of Allah.

Insh'allah, perhaps the tide is turning and Muslims are realising that their small voices need to be heard and must be heard.

It really shames me that these people will go so far against our religion and say it is Islam. Perhaps I could understand their anger if they tried to attack military targets in the UK, as a protest against our military aggression in Iraq but we are forbidden, strictly forbidden, from killing civilians. Where do these crazy people get their ideas from?

 

[Tao_Equus]

This is potentially a bit of a far-fetched and controversial theory, and more to do with politics than religion, but: What if the 'Islamic' terrorists are actually being funded, trained and inspired by the big money men behind the western governments in an attempt to unite and control the people of their own countries (through fear) and as an excuse to wage war wherever they like because ultimately war is better for the aggressor's economy (it promotes industry and research)?

... N

The deeper you dig, the more you study the web of connections what you say becomes irrefutable. Whats truly amazing in this modern era of the information super-highway is the way people deliberately turn a blind eye to it. Almost as great in scale as the power so few people wield is the apathy of mediocrity in the masses. Makes me howl at the moon.

Tao