Do we (Muslims, Christians and Jews) believe in the same God or not?

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions' started by Muhammad-Khalifa, Feb 29, 2004.

  1. OzAndy

    OzAndy Member

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    Yes I think we do believe in the same God. Jews, Muslems and Christians as I understand it all worship the God of Adam, Noah and Abraham!!

    After that it all gets a bit confusing, but we believe share at least two of the covenants of God with God's people. The earth will never again be disryed by flood and through Abraham all the peoples of the world will be blessed.

    As I understand it we all believe we are inheriters of that blessing - the trouble is we all think we are the main or even definitive receivers of the blessing.

    Blessings
    Andrew
     
  2. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Originally Posted by Muhammad-Khalifa
    Eventhough we (Muslims, Christians and jews) have many different beliefs by addressing our All-Mighty God differently , by debating on whether, or whether not Christ is son of God, etc...

    THE ANSWER-: Koran says Jesus is the Ruha or the Spirit of God. A man's spirit is not something different from himself.IT is the same peron or personality.Just like that God's Spirit is himself.
    Listen to what St.John wrote-" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." John;1:1-4
     
  3. bhakthi

    bhakthi Member

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    Posted by Bhakthi -
    I stronngly disagree with the idea that the Jews Christians and Muslims belive in the same God.The Koran says Jesus is Ruha or the Spirit of God.This makes him one with God.A man's spirit is not something apart from him.Just like that God's Spirit is one with him.
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men."Gospel of John;1:1-4
    Lord Jesus said,"I and the Father are one."John;10
    The Muslims don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.Then how can the Christians and the Muslims say they believe in the same God.
    As for the Jews the scripture says, "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn."Zechariah;12:10
    Who is the One whom they pierced? Is it not Jesus Christ ?They will morun for crucifying Christ.This is how it all happened.
    " But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. "John;19:33,34
     
  4. OzAndy

    OzAndy Member

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    Wasn't there even one blind man who felt further or listened to the others or found some common thread?
     
  5. smkolins

    smkolins Bahá'í

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    If I may say so, you are singing my song. Perhaps you should review my posts in other threads to see what I'm talking about.

    Put another way, you are preaching to the choir.
     
  6. smkolins

    smkolins Bahá'í

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    I think there have been plenty. But some hold firmly to the leg, others the trunk..... I've tried to widden the exposure to the issues. I feel most of what I've done in religious circles is build bridges only to have then dashed again and again. And yet the very exact reasons they are dismantled confirm exactly what I try to say and why I build the bridges. Of course bridges are feared as sources of invasion all the time, which brings us back to how leg can be different than a trunk....
     
  7. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    maybe we should try asking him/her .....
     
  8. smkolins

    smkolins Bahá'í

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    Maybe she/he already answered and we are not listening.
     
  9. pohaikawahine

    pohaikawahine Elder Member

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    hmmm.... you're right smkolins, how can we hear when we are so busy talking .... lol .... pohaikawahine
     
  10. Amica

    Amica Well-Known Member

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    Jewish people worship ONE G_D.
    Muslim people worship ONE GOD ('ALLAH' is The God in arabic language).
    Christians worship Jesus, a Spirit and 'Father' God= a 'god' that is somehow three yet 'one'.

    Do we worship the same God? My personal belief about this is:
    --Jews and Muslims=yes; or at least they believe in the existance of ONLY One Supreme Deity that they worship. While Jews refuse to belive the God as mentioned in the Qur'an to be their God, since they call him 'Allah' forgetting that 'Allah' simply means 'God' in Arabic language, the Muslims do believe that the God of OT is the same as the God of Qur'an.
    --Christians--in my own personal opinion, may have a slight idea of oness of God Almighty, but they worship Jesus really since to them God 'incarnates' into a human being claiming to be 100% while still human. A bit confusing concept that only a Christian may understand and perhaps believers of other faiths who have similar or same religious concept of the deity/deities of worhsip.
     
  11. mansio

    mansio Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you Amica.
     
  12. n4h1z

    n4h1z Thirst for 'Ilmi...

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    Peace to all....

    I also agree with Amica’s view. Here I would like to contribute additional info for you guys. Actually Judaism, Christianity and Islam is not the only religion that believes in One Single Supreme God. There are a number of religions which, originally believes in the Oneness of God, which is quite similar to the monotheistic religions.



    The Zulus in Africa worships a Single Divine Power. The Zulus believe in a Divine Being known as Mvelinqangi, also know as Umkhulukhulu.
    MVELINQANGI who became without being created, who is the creator of everything.
    UMKHULUKHULU wawokhokho bethu means he is the Greatest of all our Ancestors, he was not begotten nor does he beget and there is nothing whatsoever like unto him. Zulus Ancestors called him uMvelinqangi; a Zulu word, meaning "He who existed before all else; who came from no where; he begets not nor was he begotten; he is the creator of everything". This was the concept of God in the whole of the African continent prior to the introduction of Christianity.



    Hinduism is well known as a polytheistic religion. Some Hindus believe in three gods while some believe in 33-croce gods e.g. 330 million gods. But there are some hindus who are well versed in their holy scriptures believes in only one God.
    There are several similarity in the Quran and the holy scriptures of the Hindus. E.g.

    The Upanishads:


    1) Ekam evaditiyam” : “He is only one without a second” Chandogya Upanishad 6:2:1

    2) Na casya kasuj janita na cadhipah” : “Of Him there are neither parents nor lord” Svetasavatara Upanishad 6,9

    3) Na tasya pratima asti” : “There is no likeness of Him”. Svetasavatara Upanishad chapter 4:19

    4) Nainam urdvham na tiryancam na madhye na parijagrabhat na tasy pratime asti yasya nama mahad yasah” : “There is no likeness of Him whose name is great glory” The principal of Upanishad by S.Radhakrishnan pg 736 & 737

    If we compare these verses in Upanishad and the verses in the Quran, we can see the similarity. ( I use the Quran as the example for comparison not to promote Islam. It’s just that I have no deep knowledge in the OT and NT, I’am sure there is similar verses from OT and NT too)

    The Quran says:

    “There is none like unto Him” 112:4
    "There is nothing whatever like unto Him” 42:11

    There is more:


    Vedas:

    1) “There is no image of Him” YajurVed 32:3

    2) “He is bodyless and pure” Yajurved 40:8

    3) “ They enter darkness, those who worship natural things (air, water, fire). They sink deeper in darkness whose who worship sambuthi (creted things: furniture, idol, etc) Yajurved 40:16

    4) “God is verily great” Atharva Veda 20 58:3

    5) “verily, surya , thou art great; truly, aditya, thou art great. As thou art great indeed thy greatness is admire: yea, verily, great art thou, O God”. Atharva Veda samhiti vol 2 William Dmight Whitney pg 910)

    6) “O friends, do not worship anybody but Him, the Divine One.” Rigveda Book 8:1:1


    Sikhism belives in the worship of one God. The concept is quoted as “Mal Mantra” which is the fundamental creed of Sikhism. Sikhism is strictly motheistic and believes in One Supreme God, in unmanifest form, known as “Ek Omkara”

    “ There exists but One God, who is called the true the Creator, free from fear and hate, immortal not begotten, self-existant, Great and Compassionate” Sri Guru Granth Sahib vol 1 Japuji : 1

    Seems like Hiunduism and Sikhism also has a monotheistic origin which is very much like Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
    I would like to add more but I think this is sufficient for now…I hope it would help in our search for the truth.
    Peace....:)
     
  13. smkolins

    smkolins Bahá'í

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  14. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways Well-Known Member

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    What are judaism, Islam's and other religions' interpretation of Jeremiah 31 and Isaiah 65/28?

    [size=+2] What is the "tried stone" representing in Isaiah 28 for example, Muhammed or Jesus [Word of God in the "flesh"], or "other"?

    {Young LT}
    Isaiah 28:16 Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: `Lo, I am laying a foundation [#03245] in Zion, A stone--a tried [#0976] stone [#068], a corner [#06438] stone [#03245] precious, a settled foundation [#04143], He who is believing doth not make haste.
    [/size]

    Isaiah 65:17
    For, lo, I am creating new heavens, and a new earth, And the former things are not remembered, Nor do they ascend on the heart.


    Jeremiah 31 doesn't mention a "heaven and earth" passing away, just the "OC" made with the original OC Hebrew 12 tribes of Israel out of Egypt.[later divided into 2 Nations of Judah and Israel after Solomon]

    What is interesting about this passages is the "days are coming" [Jesus preaching up to the Cross] and "after those days" [Pentecost and after]?

    Jeremiah 31:31 Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a new covenant, 32 Not like the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day of My laying hold on their hand, To bring them out of the land of Egypt, In that they made void My covenant, And I ruled over them--an affirmation of Jehovah. 33 For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people.

    [size=+2]Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the year of the good pleasure of Jehovah, And the day of vengeance of our God, To comfort all mourners. 3 To appoint to mourners in Zion, To give to them beauty instead of ashes, The oil of joy instead of mourning, [/size]
     
  15. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    I don't think it's confusing at all. I think there's a good reason why we have a concept of the Trinity.

    One of the things we all have to do is understand that while our concepts of God may be different, the reason for these differences becomes more apparent if we understand the differing concepts of the "Word of God."

    In Islam, the Quran is the Word of God. In Judaism, the Word of God is the Torah. In Judaism and Islam, the Word of God is the same as the Sacred Text (Torah/Quran). In Christianity, however, the Word of God and the Sacred Text are not the same thing. For Christians, Jesus was the Word of God. The Bible is the Sacred Text that tells us the secrets, character and personality of this Word of God figure.

    Also, in Christianity, God and His Word are One. The Word is simply God expressing Himself. Actually, it is more than that. It is God revealing Himself, God projecting an image of Himself, God's Revelation of Himself. To Christians, this is the Ultimate Revelation.

    Notice the differences. Jews and Muslims think of the Sacred Text as the Word, the Ultimate Revelation, but Christians believe the Ultimate Revelation was God Himself. Jesus was simply a medium, a mirror/television set projecting God's character and personality.

    So why do Christians believe in a Trinity? I think this may explain it.

    The Christian Gospel tells us to avoid confining our way of thinking to rules, protocols, traditions and institutions.

    Today's Judaism revolves around traditions. Islam revolves around rules, protocols and institutions. Even some Christians will make the mistake of creating their own system of doctrines.

    Look around you. The world is full of people who think that following rules, protocols, traditions and institutions is the way to live. We have nations and governments founded on systems of rules, protocols, traditions and institutions. It is full of people who think that by changing the rules of the world we live in, by making bigger, better and fatter rules and institutions that the world will be a better place.

    Political systems, political structures, ideology and statecraft is what it's called.

    All the political movements, revolutions and cults we've had are attempts by people to substitute one form of ideology/statecraft for another in the hope that it will bring about some kind of utopian perfection.

    This makes me particularly suspicious as a Christian. What makes one tradition or one system of rules and institutions superior or closer to God than another? Rules and traditions don't always reflect the true attitudes of people. Attitudes and thoughts should be able to speak for themselves. Why build a system of rules, traditions and institutions around them?

    When people start thinking that their rules and traditions is special, it starts becoming a form of idolatry. If you start believing in them, then the God you worship is not really the Yahweh God of Israel, but the rules, traditions, protocols, institutions, ideology and statecraft you have come to believe in so much. Your god is an ideological god, a statecraft god or an institutional god. Your god may also be a cult, political structure, political system.

    Believing in a "God" who gives you rules, traditions and institutions to follow, and a utopian political system to construct is the same as building a God out of wood, clay and stone. The Canaanite idolaters believed they could make gods out of wood and stone. What we have today is no different. We are simply building gods out of different materials and structures. We have substituted wood, clay and stone with rules, traditions, protocols, institutions, ideologies and statecraft.

    Their error was not worshipping a Living God, but worshipping gods made of wood, clay and stone. Today many of us continue this error by building gods out of rules, traditions, protocols, institutions, ideologies and forms of statecraft instead of being intimate with a Living God.

    I think this is where our concept of the Trinity comes in. "Father" means "Source." God is the Source of everything that is holy.

    Jesus' character and personality was a projection of God's character and personality. Revelations from God in the past were in the form of dreams, visions, prophecy and speeches made by God. It now came as a human being. I see it as another way in which God expresses Himself. To me, Jesus was rather like a dream, vision, prophecy and speech combined into a single manifested phenomenon.

    The purpose of Jesus' life was to demonstrate "the perfect human being." Because of Jesus' purity of behaviour and conduct, it means that rules, traditions, protocols or institutions are not really necessary to be "righteous." People follow rules and traditions because they don't trust each other. They think the world is going to fall apart if there are no rules.

    To solve this problem they sign up a pact/treaty with each other. Follow these rules, stay with these boundaries or beware. They make these rules because they can't trust each other. Anyone who breaks the rules is violating that trust. It's not really God, but human cynicism that's involved in the process.

    Because Jesus was not dependent on rules, it means we should follow his example by understanding our own human nature and making our thoughts pure just like those of Jesus. Love, patience, kindness, generosity, humility and contentment all come from God. God put these things in human nature, but we simply don't use them often enough. The reason why we sin is because we have other things in our human nature as alternates -- selfishness, arrogance, greed, lust and hatred.

    The example of Jesus is to not choose these alternatives. Rules can't make us pure. Abstinence from the dark side of human nature is the key.

    God is the Source. He makes us pure without needing rules and traditions. He lives in us by putting His Word and Spirit in us and growing us from within. The Source, Word and Spirit are really all the same thing but represent God performing different functions.

    It sounds bizarre, but I actually think Christianity is in many ways more monotheistic than Judaism and Islam because it tells you the right and wrong way to conceptualise God. Judaism is about traditions. Islam is a form of statecraft where thieves have their hands cut off and apostates are taxed, put in prison or executed. This is to protect the integrity of the Islamic State.

    In a sense, the God of Judaism and Islam does have partners -- their partners are the god of traditions/god of statecraft.

    As a Christian I believe in One Living God, a God that is One in His Word and Spirit not a god made out of wood, clay and stone.:D
     
  16. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways Well-Known Member

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    Good post Salt.
    Christ-ians also believe God sent Jesus to bring in the New Covenant as prophecied [Jeremiah 31/Malachi] and without believing unto His NAME, we cannot enter into God's rest. If Christ did not die and ascend, then our Faith is "in vain".
    Steve

    John 1:36 And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, "Behold the Lamb of God!"

    John 19:28 After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled [#5055], said, "I thirst!"

    Acts 13:29
    and when they did complete [#5055] all the things written about Him, having taken [him] down from the tree, they laid him in a tomb;

    Christians also believe the book of "revelation" is an Inspired book and fulfills the prophecies of the OT [whereas Islam does not]:
     
  17. chokmah

    chokmah Noachide

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    My opinion would be that:

    1) Jews and Muslims worship a similar G-d (may very well be the same).
    2) The Christian G-d is not the same as the Hebrew G-d.

    JMHO.
     
  18. wil

    wil UNeyeR1 Moderator

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    I'd love for you to expound on that. I've always thought for all us that believed in G-d there was just one. We may see it different, have different interpretations or even misunderstandings...but it is the same source.

    In your number one you indicate a similar G-d. Does that mean that you believe in two Gods or that the others are just wrong.

    In number two same question, if the Chistian G-d is not the same G-d of Judaism, then are you implying two or more...or simply saying someone is wrong?

    I'm here to agree of sorts, the G-d of the Christian OT definitely has differences in methods and methodogy from the NT, however there appear to be changes throughout the OT which to me indicates it is the perception of the writers that is different and not G-d.
     
  19. chokmah

    chokmah Noachide

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    You know what? To an extent, I agree with your point after reading the above. My opinion appears rather judgmental in its briskness, so I thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify.

    The theological consideration of Islam and Judaism is staunchly monotheistic. Christianity attempts to validate the idea of the trinity, but in essence, this is completely incompatible with the monotheistic understanding of G-d in Islam and Judaism.

    For me, a Noachide, I ascribe myself to the belief in the G-d of Israel. This is a belief and a faith that I have. I understand the subjective nature of both, and as such, I understand that there is the possibility that I could be quite wrong. Therefore, I believe that there are no other gods beside the G-d of Israel. However, that distinction is secondary to what I state above about monotheistic v. trinitarian/henotheistic.

    The "incarnation" causes a great enough divide for me to say that worshipping Jesus (as Christians do) is worshipping a different god than the G-d of Israel.

    Does that help?

    That is quite true; except for the fact that believing in a different god does not necessarily make that different god a god. gods are not predicated on belief (at least how I see it). Therefore, the possibility does arise for both parties to be wrong above, but not necessarily for the same reasons - that would depend on perspective.

    There are different representations, descriptions, and even actions by the G-d of Israel. However, there is the one consistency: He is spirit. The G-d of Israel is incorporeal. Anthropomorphism is fine and dandy AS LONG AS it is not taken as literal. When it becomes literal, then it becomes idolatry. (from the Jewish/Noachide POV)
     
  20. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps Islam doesn't understand why Jesus was sent to Israel/Judah?

    Romans 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this [is] My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel [they are] enemies for your sake, but concerning the election [they are] beloved for the sake of the fathers.
     

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