JW's, Sccientologists, Moonies.. when does a cult become a religion?

Discussion in 'Belief and Spirituality' started by Tao_Equus, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. greymare

    greymare Well-Known Member

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    my bad I meant Noah. but now I mention it moses 10commandments. was there ten .
     
  2. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    only the true God has worked the prophecies out, and they always come true . and they are always spot on .



    now a king who represents the true God is ruling (Jesus) he is the one to whom it belongs , he is the rightful heir to the throne .

    yes its all happening in the last days .


    How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ‘trampling’ go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem’s last king, Zedekiah: “Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one’s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.” (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has “the legal right” to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ‘trampling’ would end when Jesus became King.


    Some vestige of Jewish sovereignty still remained in the person of Gedaliah, whom the king of Babylon had appointed as governor of the remaining Jewish settlements. “In the seventh month,” Gedaliah and some others were assassinated, so that the remaining Jews fled in fear to Egypt. Then only, from about October 1, 607 B.C.E., was the land in the complete sense “lying desolated . . . to fulfill seventy years.”—2 Ki. 25:22-26; 2 Chron. 36:20, 21.
     
  3. greymare

    greymare Well-Known Member

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    well, then according to you. the trampling would end? it isnt even close. is it? Remove the turban and lift off the crown could be understood a few ways. ie: get rid of all turban wearers. or is the crown hiding under a turban? or replace turban wearing (religions) with a monachy??????? to me its all vague and could be interpreted into any era. Many have come before proclaiming their divinity (or had it declared for them) . to me its just mans(and womans)ego. Most people want to be part of the correct religion or faith and most people can back themselves up with quotes just like you are Mee. I dont bother because to me its just a good read. actually sometimes not even good. thats my view anyway.
     
  4. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    the crown was lifted off the king , the last king on the throne to represent Jehovah , was Zedekiah . that prophecy happened years ago.



    How and when, though, did God’s rulership begin to be “trampled on by the nations”? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. “Jehovah’s throne” became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26)


    and now we are well along, and the one who has the legal right to the throne of David has recieved his kingship , because he has the legal right to it.

    By rebelling, Zedekiah wounded himself in a deadly way. (Read Ezekiel 21:25-27.) When Judah’s king was deposed, the royal turban and the crown were removed. (2 Kings 25:1-7) The “high” kingdom of Judah was ‘brought low’ by being destroyed in 607 B.C.E. Thus the “low” Gentile kingdoms were “put on high,” leaving them in control of the earth without interference by a typical kingdom of God. (Deuteronomy 28:13, 15, 36, 43, 44) So began “the appointed times of the nations”—the Gentile Times—that ended in 1914 when God conferred kingship upon Jesus Christ, ‘the one having the legal right’ to it. (Luke 21:20-24; Psalm 110:1, 2; Daniel 4:15-28; 7:13, 14) With Jesus on a HEAVENLY throne, Gentile nations cannot trample upon what ancient Jerusalem symbolized, the Kingdom of David’s legal heir.—Hebrews 12:22.

    thrilling times indeed
     
  5. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    According to the bible it would end ,
    and it ended in 1914 when Jesus took up kingship. and it was right on time .


    talking about close , NOW we are very close to the time that Jesus will go into action , and Judge the nations of the whole earth.


    Gods heavenly kingdom is now well established DANIEL 2;44 and Jesus has been reigning with great aurthority since 1914 DANIEL 7;13-14


    Jesus reign has been going on amidst his enemies, yes human rulerships at the momment are still ruling on the earth , but very soon now as DANIEL; 2;44 informs us. God will step into the affairs of mankind , and Jesus is the one put there to do the judgeing



    I am waving my symbolic palm branch to welcome Gods kingdom and the reigning king JESUS CHRIST along with a great crowd of others from all nations of the earth REVELATION 7;9-10


    Yes, the trampling has ended and Gods chosen one is ruling
     
  6. greymare

    greymare Well-Known Member

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    so in 1914 jesus took up kingship in heaven (which we cannot see). what date was this and did all of a sudden everyone looked up and said. hey whats that up there..... a guy sitting on a big chair in the sky. Must be jesus?????? If he is up ;there now in charge. question 1. what was he doing before???? having a holiday??? or doing his apprectiship??? question 2. arent you going to fix up the world or just let us muddle around ??? Statement 1. if he is in charge hes doing a **** of a job and needs counselling before being asked to resign. no union for this fella hes asleep on the job.
     
  7. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    i am glad to say that the early bible students in the 1800s kept awake to bible prophecy, so they were not surprised at all. in fact they were wide awake and ready for that 1914 date . the understanding was not so clear at that time but the 1914 date was bang on , but now the understanding about many things in the bible is abundant indeed .DANIEL 12;4 IS ALL HAPPENING ESPECIALLY IN THIS TIME OF THE END:)
     
  8. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    acting as high priest ,and waiting at Gods right side for the time of the end (1914) as soon as he was given kingship he cleaned the heavens up first REVELATION 12;9, HE DOES NOT WANT REBELS IN THE HEAVENS IT CAUSES OPPOSITION TO GODS PURPOSE,(so he has cast them out ) a good goverment is no good if there are rebels in it . would you not agree ?
     
  9. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; DANIEL 2;44



    He is not going to let us muddle around for much longer


    soon all of the manmade rulerships will have been put out of the way , just as he did with those in opposition in the heavens . one step at a time ,and the true God Jehovah has his own time to tell Jesus when to go into action .

    but now we are well along into the time of the end . the end of human rulership is just around the corner.



    (Psalm 2:9) You will break them with an iron scepter, As though a potter’s vessel you will dash them to pieces.”



    (Psalm 110:5) Jehovah himself at your right hand Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.



    (Isaiah 60:12) For any nation and any kingdom that will not serve you will perish; and the nations themselves will without fail come to devastation.



    (Revelation 19:15) And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword, that he may strike the nations with it, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. He treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the Almighty.
     
  10. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    for those with the eye of understanding , and for those who see clearly ,he is the best ruler ,and he is doing a grand job . and its all one step at a time . putting people on notice about the GOODNEWS of the kingdom , and helping people to respond to the goodnews , is running along nicely:)
     
  11. greymare

    greymare Well-Known Member

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    I disagree.
     
  12. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    not everyone agrees with the truth of the bible , but many from all nations are being gathered in unity to go along with Gods purpose for the earth . REVELATION 7;9-10


    and i am one of them :)



    it is the way to go if we want to be inline with the God of the bible .


    (Revelation 7:17) because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

    (Revelation 22:17) And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.



    responding in the right way to Jesus invitation will lead to everlasting life in a paradise earth.

    (Matthew 25:32) And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.



    Sheep are willing to follow Jesus and to be taught by him ,:) but Goats are rebellious and like to do it their way .


    (Matthew 13:49) That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things: the angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous


    i do not want to be classed as a wicked one ,by being in opposition to Jehovah and his son Jesus christ .

    so i am willing to be led by Jesus , he is our leader.


    and then hopefully i can be one of the meek ones spoken of in PSALM 37;11


    But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.PSALM 37;11

    (Matthew 5:5) “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.

    The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
    And they will reside forever upon it.PSALM 37;29:)


    ITS GOOD
     
  13. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    lol, you tripping out on the arrogance of "your" sight mate. You see what we cannot of course....lmao. And yeh what a bloody amazing job "it" is doing. The fact is if this god of your exists for real then it is a sick sadist to allow such endless suffering. Does "it" step in and save the innocent child that dies every 3 seconds from poverty? Does "it" step in and defuse a carbomb planted outside a school? No and no to a million more examples of unfair cruel and unnecessary suffering that happens every day round our planet. What you have is a delusion you try to push like a heroin dealer that has no basis in reality and was created for profit and profit alone. You enjoy your narcotic of choice... you stay "on High" dude. Happy end of the world.

    Tao
     
  14. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    its good to know that the God of the bible has everything in hand to put an end to suffering and wickedness , and even those who have died have the resurrection hope . yes this world as it is , is in a very bad state with all of the problems that you mentioned .


    and yes it does put me on a high when i learn from the bible that all of the problems that we see in this world will come to an end .



    After God removes wickedness and suffering, the earth will be transformed into a paradise. Then people will be able to live forever in perfect health and happiness. God’s Word foretells: “[God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.”—Revelation 21:4.




    i can recommend the sort of high that i am on, to anyone and it is free . and it is very beneficial .



    Why did God not destroy Adam and Eve and start over with another human pair? Because God’s universal sovereignty, that is, his right to rule, had been challenged. The question was, Who has the right to rule, and whose rule is right? By extension, Could humans do better if not ruled by God? In allowing them enough time to experiment with total freedom, God would establish once and for all whether they are better off under his rule or their own. The time allowed had to be long enough for humans to try all types of political, social, economic, and religious systems apart from God’s guidance.



    and as you yourself have mentioned, starving children and carbombs is not a very good record is it?


    it is no wonder that the God of LOVE is going to step into the affairs of man and put an end to the rulerships of man ,Daniel 2;44 i dont think anyone can say that man has not had enough time to try and do things right.


    what a mess humans make of things without the guidance of God .



    The human condition is just as the Bible foretold for our times. God’s Word identifies our era as “the last days” of this system of things when “critical times hard to deal with will be here.” And just as the Bible said, ‘wicked men and impostors have advanced from bad to worse.’—2 Timothy 3:1-5, 13.
     
  15. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Maybe just maybe if all the so called religious people and institutions put as much effort and time into actually solving the real problems we have in this world, rather than focussing on metaphysical delusions, or historical texts that have absolutely no relevance to the real world we live in, we would have no need for your gods barbaric armageddon. We live on a potential paradise here and now, yet so many seem to embrace its destruction for the belief something even better awaits. Its a lie. Death is death is death. There is no God, no salvation, no happily ever after. But we do have children, and they will want children too, and so on into the future. Your phillosophy deprives these future generations of what countless previous ones struggled to give you.. a shot at being alive. Yet you preach death as tho it were some glorious reward for abdicating your commitment to all these future generations. How "good" of you!!

    Tao
     
  16. Saltmeister

    Saltmeister The Dangerous Dinner

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    Maybe these religions were never meant to solve the world's problems. Perhaps it's something we just haven't figured out for now?:confused::eek: Not sure what we are or we want to be? One person wants to be a millionaire (metaphorically, not literally), another wants to be a tennis player. Someone else wants to be a shop-keeper. Another writes magazines. Your next door neighbour is a scientist. Your cousin goes to fancy-dress parties...... Maybe we could just wear this costume (religion) for a while and see what happens.....After all life is a game isn't it? A stage with actors on it?
     
  17. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    I preach GOODNEWS of better things .



    And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come. matthew 24;14


    the end spoken of in that verse, is not the end of the planet but the end of manmade goverments that are missing the mark of perfection


    the better things are that Jesus rulership will be like the following verse in ISAIAH 9;7

    To the abundance of the princely rule and to PEACE there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of JUSTICE and by means of ,RIGHTEOUSNESS from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.


    yes, PEACE JUSTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS.


    JUST WHAT WE NEED:)


    and rather than death in view it will be everlasting life.

    This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. john 17;3
     
  18. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    only Gods kingdom will solve the problems , Daniel 2;44


    and most have not figured that out yet .




    I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step. JEREMIAH 10;23
     
  19. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Thanks Salty, i do get your point and respect it as you intended. But JW's, scientologists, moonies and even Krishna's are not selling truth any more than republicans, democrats, liberals or the SNP (scottish national party....the party who runs scotland atm). Power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely...descartes? I cant remember.
    But... tho you have chosen to give me a well framed answer...the statement remains true.... religion still only adds to the worlds woes...and the rise of armagedon based ideologies is a serious threat to global security. Imagine Bush or Putin caught on such a trip!!
    And for every individual self-seeking his own glorious cardboard salvation here and now, well his/her effort in time and $ could very well save the lives of several children. Multiply that across the nations and you could make a serious dent on the aspects of life today that make me feel ashamed to be human. Yet those that have the arrogance to "know gods intent" would judge me, meanwhile sitting on their pile contributing to global suffering... well...makes me bleedin sick it does.
    I am not a cardboard guy, I get out there and scream for justice, both locally and internationally. Been on TV 7 times in past 3 weeks, in national papers more, standing up for those ideas that will truly give us the sustainable paradise that is all around us...if only we would care to look. And my take is you guys, amidst the modern infection of bullshit called being PC, dont stomp down hard enough on all this end of the world crap...for crap is what it is.
    A few weeks ago in Princess street (Edinburgh's main street) I stood for 3 hrs and shouted down the scientologists offering their "free stress tests",.... why?
    Well not because I get a kick out of annoying all the pretty girls n boys they already have brainwashed by the cheap trickery of dianetics. No, but because no-one else was. That makes me mad. That every day bullshit that is so clearly bullshit goes unchallenged.
    Look at discovery channel. We live in a most amazing and beautiful paradise despite our best, mostly ignorant, efforts to destroy it. That is the real, tangible, concrete reality... you think any deity would go to such "peripheral" effort just to amuse the damned? I think not. Anthropocentric Armageddon cults need stomped on and stomped on hard. they represent, in our modern era, a threat that we cannot afford to ignore. If we allow their proliferation....sometime one will get their vain-glorious finger on the button that will not bring salvation, nor the end of life on this wondrous orb, but the end of human progress. I have children, and just as so many generations have contributed to my paltry existence i want to truly contribute toward theirs. The doom-mongers who are nowt but the tools of corporate insustainability/greed need to be shot down in flames at every juncture if we are to affect the changes we most definitely need to make if we are to assure the survival of our children for real.

    Merry Crucifixion's!!


    Tao
     
  20. Tao_Equus

    Tao_Equus Interfaith Forums

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    Ok you keep makin your ...erm.....quotes.
    You wanna know what i think you never got from those that gave you your affliction?...hte truth...well heres an armageddon setting for you...can you endure it? I think not.

    YouTube - Henry Rollins


    Tao
     

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