Prove that the Bible is full of contradictions-- I double dare you!

Discussion in 'Comparative Studies' started by Marsh, Mar 15, 2004.

  1. man

    man New Member

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    Hi Guys,

    I have seen many posts above by different people who are claiming that they can live with contradictions and inconsistencies in the bible. They are looking at bible as a whole and trying to understand the message of the bible as a whole which is in their concept is "love".

    As I am a muslim by the grace of Allah. I want to claim one thing that "A GOD'S WORD CAN NEVER EVER HAVE CONTRADICTIONS, INCONSISTENCIES AND ERRORS".

    For more information you can visit this site and dowload videos of debate between a muslim scholar and bible scholar. Search for "jimmy" and watch the debate along with question & answer session.

    http://www.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=50016&TitleName=Ahmed_Deedat

    If any one of you knows any other sites which has debates then please let me know.

    Thanks...
     
  2. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    I'll leave the link in, man, but please no more postings from pro-Islamic sites trying to argue against Christianity, as it is beginning to look like Proselytising.
     
  3. man

    man New Member

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    Dear Brian,

    By God, my intention was not to hurt any one's feelings or to present anything against chirstianity. If I did unintentionally then I apologize.

    I just wanted my christian brothers to know more about their holy scripture. And actually the speakers were high ranked missionaries from christianity.

    So my intention was "IF YOU DO NOT KNOW THEN ASK WHO KNOWS".

    Thanks for keeping the link.
     
  4. path_of_one

    path_of_one Embracing the Mystery

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    OK, I fully admit I haven't read the 5+ pages of remarks on this one, but I read the first page and the last page (heh- sounds like some of my students studying for exams).

    I just wanted to add my take on things. Maybe the Bible is full of contradictions and/or inconsistencies. Some are resolvable through putting scripture in their appropriate linguistic, cultural, and historical contexts. Some are mysteries. The trinity itself is a mystery- how can one God be three, and three one? How can the Kingdom of God be both immanent and separate? How can Jesus both tell everyone to keep the law in full, but then also "break" the Sabbath?

    Here's how I see it- those mysteries are there for a reason. Anybody ever read the Tao Te Ching? Full of paradoxes. BUT... people don't read the Tao Te Ching and try to reason out all the contradictions. They accept that they are there for a reason- to help us learn and grow spiritually.

    Maybe, just maybe... God doesn't mean for us go round and round chasing our tail with these contradictions, but rather read them with the Spirit and take the meaning that we receive through intuitive insight. I dare to say that the meaning may be different for different people, depending on your spiritual needs at that moment. How many of us have read the psalms in Bible study and received one message from God, only to turn to the same scripture in a time of need and receive the blessing of another message? Does that mean that one or the other meaning is wrong? No- it speaks to the glory and grace of God that the scripture can be living and speak to our needs and spiritual path in each moment.

    The point is not to have a perfect book with no inconsistencies and no mystery. The point is to have faith in God and find joy in the mysteries, and to accept that sometimes the best description of these mysteries is something that superficially is contradictory, paradoxical, or nonsensical... but becomes something wondrous and beautiful if read with the right kind of sight.
     
  5. earl

    earl ?

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    Path-of-one, I just did the same thing you did-didn't read all the pages either.:)
    So, if this is repetitive, forgive me, (for i know not what i do). But, when it comes to biblical interpretations, etc., I like what Origen said oh so many centuries ago:

    "One must therefore portray the meaning of the sacred writings in a threefold way upon one's own soul, so that the simple man may be edified by what we may call the flesh of the scripture, this name being given to the obvious interpretation; while the man who has made some progress may be edified by its soul, as it were; and the man who is perfect and like those mentioned by the apostle: 'we speak wisdom among the perfect; yet a wisdom not of this world, nor the rulers of this world, which are coming to naught, but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery'...this man may be edified by the spiritual law...For just as a man consists of a body, soul, and spirit, so in the same way does the scripture."

    I believe that more meditative, expansive, ways of reading scripture, such as midrash in judaism or lectio divina in christianity are processes to allow scriptures to work on our being in a koan-like manner. have a good one, earl
     
  6. yeah4me

    yeah4me New Member

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    Make it 3 in a row that have read the 1st and last threads. Maybe I missed something in between, but the only inconsistencies I have found were fairly amusing.
    For instance ( and I don't quote chapter and verse) is in Genesis when God says,"Let us make man is OUR image" (more or less). Who is he talking to, and who is OUR?
    Also, if Adam and Eve were the only humans on earth, and they gave birth to Cane and Abel, and Cain slew Abel, then was sent into exile to live with others, where did the others come from? Or, forgive my sense of weird humor, were Adam and Eve really that productive?
    Otherwise, I see the Bible as a road map, kind of explaining a saga written by man to explain the forces of nature around them, and trying to put it in terms that the early generations would understand and appreciate.;)
    Anyway, I find this, and some of the other forums very interesting to read....
     
  7. InLove

    InLove at peace

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    I think that the original question was worth discussing. I think it was the "double-dare" that did it in.:)

    Would anyone care to start over without the war?

    InPeace,
    InLove
     
  8. adriyel

    adriyel Servant

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    Biblical "Contradictions"

    Hello members of the forum, this is my first post, and I hope it will be somewhat constructive.

    As far as Biblical Contradictions go, it goes back to the interpretation. I personally believe that if there are any contradictions, they are from human debasing of the text, or from misinterpretation. One member described interpretation of the Bible as subjective, I don't see it that way. I've debated with a great number of atheists, and most of them attack what they see as contradictions, but they lack understanding of the text in order to understand. It isn't subjective because the truth is there. Example:

    Atheist Says: "You say G-d loves everyone, and yet he said 'Jacob I have loved, yet Esau I have hated" Well, the first thing you have to address is that G-d doesn't and never has hated Esau. "Huh? You're contradicting the text!" Wrong, That phrase is a Jewish idiom relating to inheritance.

    What most of my fellow Christians don't understand is that ALL of the Bible must be interpreting by and large with two things, the spirit, and a Jewish perspective. Almost all of it, with the exception of some specific epistles were written for and by a Jewish people, including the NT.

    Additional contradictions can be attributed to poor translations and renderings of words. A great deal of the OT was messed up by mistranslations of the KJV translators. Additionally, most don't have any understanding of middle-english, and can't understand how/why words are used. For example, Timothy spoke of how woman must subject to man...e.t.c. Sadly, there are churches who use those verses as a rod to beat women with (rhetorically speaking) and limit them in their ability to help or accomplish much within the Church.

    The word woman would be better understood as "wife" as thats what the word woman came from in middle english, and thats how it would have been used at the time. Therefore, a wife should subject to her husband (for the most part, the husband is told to honor and love her, to respect her opinion, e.t.c.) not to subject to all of man. Therefore, I don't see why many churches don't allow a woman to preach/be a pastor, its absurd.

    To eliminate those problems from my own personal studies, I've taken up Hebrew and own a Hebrew OT & NT. Its too difficult to take all these problems hindering our understanding of the (Middle) English texts. I am not a jew, I am a gentile, and I not a messanic jew, I disagree with them on some matters, (see Peter I & 2 :p ).

    I'm afraid that was a bit long winded, sorry if I bored you, just presenting some thoughts. On a side note for the curious, my nickname is hebrew and means "from G-d's flock".

    --- Adriyel

    (EDIT: As for "let us make man in our image" heh, don't you think thats a pretty good argument for the Triune nature of G-d? Elohim is how G-d is referred to until he tells Moshe (Moses) his true name, that being the tetragrammaton. Elohim is hebrew for a "Strong Ones", I'll emphasize the plural here. His triune nature has been ignored for thousands of years, I'm glad to see someone noticed the second indication of that.)
     
  9. Abogado del Diablo

    Abogado del Diablo Ferally Decent

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    Re: Biblical "Contradictions"

    This is precisely why having a dialogue on this subject is pointless.
     
  10. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways New Member

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    I agree the KJV is a poor translation and why I use Young's LT along with greek/hebrew Interlinears, and since Jesus was a "jew" sent to the jews and lost sheep of Israel, I do try to read it though "hebrew/jewish eyes". I just happen to be a NC "jew" in Christ instead of an OC jew under the OC LAW of Bondage/Death.

    Zechariah 8:23 Thus said Jehovah of Hosts: In those days strong hold do ten men of all languages of the nations, Yea, they have taken strong hold on the skirt/wing of a man, a Jew [#03064] , saying: We go with you, for we heard God [is] with you!

    Reve 5:5
    and one of the elders saith to me, `Weep not; lo, overcome did the Lion, who is of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, to open the scroll, and to loose the seven seals of it;

    About being written by jews and for jews, that is in "some ways correct", as most of the OT/NT prophecies concern the 2 Nations of Israel/Judah, and OC Jerusalem, as they were the ones to have a "Covenant" with God from Mt Sinai. But God promised to give them a "better" one.

    Gala 4:24 which things are allegorized, for these are the two covenants: one, indeed, from mount Sinai, to servitude bringing forth, which is Hagar; 25 for this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and doth correspond to the Jerusalem that now [is], and is in servitude with her children, 26 and the Jerusalem above is the free-woman, which is mother of us all, [Jeremiah 31?]

    For example, note the Time of the End for the Jewish Nation/Daniel's People in Daniel 12. Some believe this was fulfilled in the first century, [note matt 21:43 and the kingdom being taken from "Judah"/Priests]and others view it as future "armegeddon/gog magog" after the jews build another Temple for a "man of sin/lawlessnes" to sit in.

    I don't yet know how the jewish religion views this as it does concern them [Jacob/Israel's sons/Sceptre of Judah Gen 49], not "gentiles" :confused:.

    Daniel 12:1 `And at that time stand up doth Michael the great chief/prince [#08269], who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath beena Nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the book.

    Revelation 12:7
    And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers,

    Matthew 21:43
    `Because of this I say to you, that the reign/kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;
     
  11. eman

    eman New Member

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    You got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!! the Bible is full of crap and contradictions,let me use the words of the so called good book the Bible:
    Genesis 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat.
    Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eatest therof THOU SHALT SURELY DIE.

    Genesis 5:5 And all the days that
    adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.


    (how could Adam live to the ripe old age of 930 years )


    I guess what he ment to say was thou shalt surley die after 930 years.
     
  12. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways New Member

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    He eventually died didn't he?

    Genesis 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou shalt die.'
     
  13. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    Thanks for the post, and welcome to CR, eman - but if you don't tone your attitude you'll likely find your posts removed and your account banned.

    We expect civility here - please try to ensure any following posts try to keep with that.
     
  14. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    aw comeon Brian....the title of the thread was bound to elicit the response eventually....
     
  15. iBrian

    iBrian Peace, Love and Unity Staff Member

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    I know, but better to keep the discussing as a dicussion, rather than a simple series of condemnations of one view or another. :)
     
  16. eman

    eman New Member

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    I am sorry for the Tude, You said he eventually died. Well let me get it right this time Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. - again sorry for the attitude.
     
  17. eman

    eman New Member

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    Matthew 4:1
    Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    Contradiction:


    James 2:13
    Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

    Spirit=God. God is saying he cannot tempt any one but: "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil."

    The Spirit is trying to put Jesus in to a position to be tempted, and yet clearly states : neither tempteth he any man.

    King James Version.
     
  18. eman

    eman New Member

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    Hitler wrote a book to and we all know that it is a bad book, but even so there must be some positive things in the book : keep your self in good physical condition, keep faith in God (Hitler was a christian) but the book is a bad book not because he was a christian but how he seperated him self and the Germanic people from the rest of the world. Well the Bible does that in spades and makes Hitler look like a Boyscout. There is more rape,punishment,genocide and just horrible treatment of the childeren of God from God himself. If you dare (not you personally) read more then what you learn in sunday school, like all the other stuff you will never here in sunday school you would be appauled. I like to be objective and look at all that is in the Bible.

    As long as we read only that with which we agree, we learn nothing.-Chester Dolan.

    p.s. sorry about my other post I am not trying to anger anyone.
     
  19. InChristAlways

    InChristAlways New Member

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    Hi eman. Does that include looking at the whole Bible from Genesis to Revelation? You say the Bible is full of C*** and contradictions but yet you say you want to be "objective" about it :confused:

    For example, what do you think would be different from the old heaven and earth/Jerusalem and new heaven and earth/New Jerusalem in the below passages from the Bible.

    I may not full understand or comprehend them, but I believe in what God wrote here.
    Any thoughts or views on this? Thanks.
    Steve

    Genesis 1:1 In the beginning of God's preparing [#01254] the heavens and the earth--..... 31 Then God saw everything that He had made [#06213], and indeed [it was] very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

    Isaiah 65:17 " For behold, I create [#01254] new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind. 18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create [#01254]; For behold, I create [#01254] Jerusalem [as] a rejoicing, And her people a joy.

    Revelation 21:1
    Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
     
  20. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Active Member

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    first of all, god the father in heaven cannot be tempted for he is holy and where evil cannot be. however, when god sent his spirit to mary, gods son was born on earth to live like we do, to be tempted like are, and to die like we do for a very important reason-- he is the messiah. he was born half of gods spirit which made him king of kings and perfect (free from sin) and the other half human which allowed him to sympathize with us, to walk and talk among us, to allow eyewitnesses of his works to be written and proclaimed, and to be the high priest for us; to teach us and to die for our sins as the ultimate sacrifice where no more is needed, just asking him for forgiveness, since he paid the price for all of us, and to be resurrected back to glory with the father--all being gods plan which the prophets had foretold.
     

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