Do these commands.....

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by Joedjr, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. mee

    mee Interfaith Forums

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    The Bible often alludes to the traits of sheep, describing them as readily responding to a shepherd’s affection (2 Samuel 12:3), unaggressive (Isaiah 53:7), and defenseless. (Micah 5:8) mee likes sheep



    Sheep do not ‘just take care of themselves’ as some might suppose.

    They require, more than any other class of livestock, endless attention and meticulous care To survive, these helpless creatures need a caring shepherd.Ezekiel 34:5.



     
  2. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    Quahom1, did the tears of your wayward sheep have anything to do with this?

    I had images of a Stephen King novel when I read that here.
     
  3. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    *yawns*

    Cyberpi: Misery right?
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Watch what you take in, it can turn one's brain to mush.
     
  5. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    I suppose. But they are fine rams now, and they watch out for your back too...lol

    all in all not too shabby.
     
  6. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    Misery it is. "God I love you," she says with ecstacy in her face. But I understand in the book she cuts off his foot with an axe and cauterizes it with a blowtorch.

    Quahom1, the parallels are interesting. Annie is a loving moderator just trying to get the right words from an author. She wants a proper ending for her rose garden viewpoint, and she has standards to enforce. She goes into a fit by her author's use of profanity. When they argue and she just does not like his words... she lovingly amputates his thumb.
     
  7. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    It is not what goes into the brain that defiles a person, but what comes out.

    Like dad, like son. Your kids do not watch my back. If they do I suspect they would leave the militarying for the militant.
     
  8. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Your crassness supercedes even my wildest expectations. Enjoy your mud...
     
  9. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    Axe to the foot? That must be in the book (Big fan of King.....'s movies lol) In the film she hobbles him... What white slave masters used to do to their slaves.... Sledge hammer to the ankle with the aid of a block of wood... All in all a very painful experience I reckon it would be up there almost with kneecapping.
     
  10. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    It seems that I overlooked post# 6 in the thread, which was Ahanu's. Ahanu's suggesting that Jesus was a revisionist. He mentions two gospels where Jesus talks about loving enemies. To him the 'Genocidal God' of Joshua is out of sync with the God who Jesus talks about.

    I think that the illusion of irony does not come from Jesus but from the Ten Commandments, which forbid murder. Murder is forbidden to individuals whether the person is foreign or alien, and war (against Amalek) is the only exception. In saying God is kind to the ungrateful and the selfish Jesus is commenting upon Jonah, Amos, Isaiah, and many items in the law which refer to orphans, widows, neighbors, etc. Jesus was merely bringing out those things which people need to be reminded of from time to time. What he said was true: God does cause the rain to fall on the just and the unjust.

    Jesus never talks about breaking the leg of a lamb, although it is analogous to the prodigal son story. The lamb is the prodigal son, and the broken leg that heals is the realization that he would have been better off with his father. Within us is the need for family, but I would not call it a cruel need. Its just a need. Breaking the leg of the lamb is an analogy Leviticus 19:17 "You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason with your neighbor, lest you bear sin because of him."

    Amalek
    Numbers 24:20 And when he looked on Amalek, he took up his parable, and said, Amalek was the first of the nations; but his latter end shall be that he perish for ever.
    Sometimes when something appears ironic, I look closer to find out if it really is. There is a seeming irony in the Bible that surrounds Amalek (who Ahanu mentioned). God will wipe out Amalek's name from remembrance, but also Israel will war with Amalek from generation to generation! The 'Name' of Amalek is a reference to all those who are of Amalek's household, but his household was almost if not completely wiped out. Without actually speaking the word, Jesus commented upon Amalek, who is the archetype of the unbeliever. Amalek appears in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, among others. Since we cannot tell who is or is not an unbeliever, we make war upon Amalek within ourselves.
     
  11. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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  12. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to our father': for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."
     
  13. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    A really good point, and to clarify: I've suggested that Amalek is representative of all those who are stoned, executed, won't believe, etc. Stoning was a commandment and so was war with Amalek for all generations. The two are related. Amalek is a question that is intended to be continually asked. "Who is Amalek?" And then: "Is it me?" Ciberpi brought up Matt 3:9, which is one of the ways Jesus taught that the faithful are children born of God and not by the will of any man. The fact that Abraham couldn't have children without a miracle is symbolic of this. The stones thrown during a stoning are partially for encouraging others not to break the laws, purging Israel. In that sense perhaps they raised up children to Abraham, but I don't think that was what Jesus was referring to. He may have been hinting at a continuation of exile. In that I do see the breaking of a lamb's leg in order to save it.

    Ezekiel 36:26 "...nd I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh...."
    Deut 30:4-6 ... will gather you, and from there he will fetch you;...bring you into the land which your fathers possessed... make you more prosperous...will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring...
     
  14. cyberpi

    cyberpi Interfaith Forums

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    Dream:
    In the parable of the two sons, the one son chooses to leave and the father lets him leave. He doesn't break his ankles. Had the father broken his feet to keep him home, then it would have been an entirely different story. That the father lets him leave when he wanted to, and rewarded him when he returns... is NOT a matter of breaking the son's feet. Quite the opposite.

    This matter of stoning to teach is a bit skewed too. In one way... God kills everything living here. Each and every one, good and evil alike have died. What flesh here won't die as a result of God's design? Viewed another way though: nothing here dies.

    As a dad, I recognize that just as my body was given to me, that much of what my children have were NOT given by me. It is not for me to take. I didn't design and give my children feet... God did. So I will not break them. If I am an employer, what right do I have to fire someone else's employee? As a parent, what right do I have to break the ankles of someone else's child? If I am to raise children of God, and God wants to break the ankles that he gave them, then that is his choice... not mine. If God truly asked me to break the ankles of my children... crap... then I would be living the story of Abraham.

    In the parable of the two sons the father did not pre-bribe the son and he did not punish the son. Any reward in returning looked more like an unexpected surprise after the son had punished himself.

    Luke 15:5-7 And when he had found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying, "Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost." I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

    That repentance there is by the choice or will of the lamb. The rejoicing is the will and choice of the shepherd.
     
  15. Dream

    Dream New Member

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    That makes sense. The breaking of a lamb's leg is an extrapolation that comes from outside of the actual parables of Jesus, nor does it appear in Scripture either as far as I can tell. Discipline appears all over the place though. Probably 'breaking the lamb's leg' is a poor model of the exile, too.
    The main thing is that Jesus talked about stones turning into children for Abraham, which sounds like a reference to exile (Ezekiel 36:26, Deut 30:4-6) The main issue of Jesus' day was probably their political situation in which their territory was being occupied by the Romans. Its weak to say Jesus was alluding to stoning at all, so I don't think he was saying that. Stoning deterred people from doing certain things, and I was just teasing the word 'teaching' out of such ~deterrent~.

    It sounds like you're saying that since all people die...something or other, but I'm not sure.

    Yes. I doubt God would command you to do that and actually make you follow through with it. Also, I've just noticed that the pageant between Abraham and Isaac was repeated whenever an Israelite had a firstborn son. He was required to symbolically 'Sacrifice' his son through payment of holy money for the tabernacle, but the sons were never actually killed. (Exodus 13:13) They didn't really kill their sons, but it was all part of some kind of lesson. I wonder if they actually tied up the son as part of the ceremony?
     
  16. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    It was called setting man's mind up for the ulitmate sacrifice that was to come. We had to understand the anguish of giving up a cherished one for the sake of others, that we also cherish...as the Father was about to do. So God set man up to ponder the same issue, so that we would even begin to understand what and who was going to be sacrifice and for "whom" that sacrifice would take place...

    clear as distilled water (mixed with mud).
     
  17. Dream

    Dream New Member

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