Misconduct&Repercussion

Discussion in 'Eastern Religions and Philosophies' started by Manji2012, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. Manji2012

    Manji2012 New Member

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    From my understanding of Buddhism, it seems that in regards to misconduct, the only repercussions and consequences is the fruition of skillful or unskillful actions and habits. That, the misconduct is a result of the lack of right view and will play its role in one's ability to be liberated from the wheel of Samsara. The is also the result of misconduct not only the self but other persons as well.

    Anyhoot, my main point is that in Buddhism there seems to be this lack of punishment or reward for conduct. Buddhism is mostly concerned with what is behind any conduct rather than the conduct itself and has no ultimate punishment or reward that I am familiar with from my Judeo-Christian culture.

    I have this holding onto this importance of Eternal hell for those who do wrong... And the lack of this in Buddhism makes it seems as Christianity is more true...

    However, misconduct seems to not matter to Christianity, Judaism, or Islam either to respect that people can be forgiven for their misconduct either by Jesus, God, or Allah. I remember my peers trying to say that their is a limit on forgiveness but, I am sure that so silly and non-scriptural.

    Can anyone even begin to understand what I am trying to ask here? Perhaps, I should wait until my mind is more clear and can better ask the question.

    I just have this thought that Buddhism is being inadequate in not having some form of punishment for misconduct as the culture I group up in has rubbed off on my paradigms of things. Even though there is a slight loop-hole in the system that one can escape punishment for misconduct via repentance in the Abrahamic faith scheme of things.

    I ask this question because I heard a Christian argue what is a Buddhist to do when they fail to act ethically or perform right conduct because Buddhism does not have some supreme person or God to forgive them. So, what is there?

    All it seems to is that past conduct has its fruitation but the present moment is more important. Even after the Body has stopped functioning the present moment is still there and thus, NIbbana is still available. Makes no difference if I cussed at my neighbor when he cut in front of me in traffic.
     
  2. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    Punishment and reward follow on from judgment. What if there is no entity to be judging?

    I agree about your comment regarding intention and conduct. If someone brings a knife to your throat is it automatically a “bad thing”? Perhaps the person doing this is a surgeon about to save your life.


    Does your mind have to fit in one “box” or the other before it is “clear”? Need the two be totally irreconcilable? There seem to be plenty of folk around that manage to combine elements as they see appropriate.:)

    There is the law of karma.


    There is only ever the present moment. It does make a difference if you cussed at your neighbour, but you can’t revisit it. But of course you can always make up for it in the now. :)

    s.
     
  3. wil

    wil UNeyeR1

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    An eternal hell is not the belief of all of Christianity, Judaim or Islam. There is much discussion on exactly what those passages mean.
     
  4. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    Depends on the type of Buddhism. In the Theravada-Tibetan tradition, there are unforgivable acts that result in damnation. That's because there is no way to purify oneself of such acts.
     
  5. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    Damned for eternity?

    s.
     
  6. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    It's a truism to say that everything is ephemeral from the Buddhist perspective. However, when it is said that there is "no remedy" for an action, one might reasonably infere that it's final even though the concept of eternal damnation is not developed with any detail.

    The Ikko-Ikki motto is "He who advances is sure of heaven, but he who retreats will suffer eternal damnation." That sounds pretty final, too. I suppose one could argue that the inferences and sloganeerings ostensibly
    based on doctrine are different from the doctrine itself.
     
  7. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    These acts must be pretty bad cos lesser gods don't even get to spend eternity in the higher realms. Not fair! :p

    s.
     
  8. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    According to Nichiren, the Nembutsu gets you a sure place in eternal hell. So here we have an instance of a core practice that was supposed to save you actually having the effect of damning you forever and forever. Now THAT's not fair.
     
  9. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    Well, he would, wouldn’t he? :rolleyes:

    Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō
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    Nam-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō…


    s.
     
  10. Manji2012

    Manji2012 New Member

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    As in the fruition of action but no punishment for misconduct? Care to go into more detail?

    Netti-Netti:

    "Depends on the type of Buddhism. In the Theravada-Tibetan tradition, there are unforgivable acts that result in damnation. That's because there is no way to purify oneself of such acts."

    Manji2012:

    If you know them, what are the unforgivable acts?
     
  11. Manji2012

    Manji2012 New Member

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    When I kill a mom's son, and dies after another person kills me for killing the a mother's son, what happens after I die.

    Like, what are some possible outcomes???
     
  12. Manji2012

    Manji2012 New Member

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    Interesting, can you show me some sources where I can read people's arguments for the validation of the correct interpretation for eternal hell or not as far as the Christian religion is concerned.
     
  13. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Manji, you might want to google "Twelve Nidānas" and "Paticcasamuppāda."
     
  14. seattlegal

    seattlegal Why do cows say mu?

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    Manji, you might want to consider these scriptures:
    John 5:16-47

    John 9, especially verses 35-41
     
  15. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    There has been a dispute about whether eternal damnation is scripturally sound doctrine for some time. You will have no trouble finding articles on the subject when you use Google search terms like "eternal damnation does not appear in the Bible."

    It seems the Old Testament makes no reference to eternal damnation to hell at all. The adequacy of the New Testament chapter and verse that is often linked to the notion of hell has been covered elsewhere. See
    http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/hell-is-a-hoax-8528.html
     
  16. WalkingDead

    WalkingDead New Member

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    Try wiki search with key words of

    Yama

    or

    Buddhism judgment
     
  17. Bishadi

    Bishadi Interfaith Forums

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    Honest and quite fair.

    Because the only reward is self evident to reality.


    Intent. The intent is the issue.


    If ‘good’……. The imposition or choice to cause; Supports life.

    Bad: loss to the common.

    In a sense all ‘acts’ are unforgivable. Meaning each imposition to existence whether of good or bad…. Still exists.


    Good ones, just ‘live’ longer as causing a loss to the common (ill regard) based on selfish intent, not only fails in longevity but then to be spoken of after death in an adverse context is like a hell in itself.

    No more period of choice; physical death. As immediate yet permanent in contrast to sleeping. Nothing afterwards as far as the consciousness (you) having choice ever again. Death does not take the individuals memories with them, Alzheimer’s proves that. (individual memories affixed to the body)

    You are remembered as a murderer and easily forgotten; extinct.


    What you impose to existence by choice is your ever-lasting life…….if it is ‘good’ and supports life to continue…. You live in them contributions that build….

    If what is done is ‘bad’ then you (your energy upon existence) will eventually fade to extinction; forgotten.

    So if you have a family member pass (leave the building) and you Love them, then go plant a tree, teach a child something that person taught you (that is good) or even contribute time and energy for the benefit of others, all in their (passing Loved one) memory….. Now you give them life even after death as what Love they gave to you, now you ‘tap the pond’ all based on that compassion; so that energy continues in time.

    The method of describing these truths is by observing reality. Each and every contributor of wisdom has pointed to these realities but often the descriptions get in the way creating misunderstandings.

    A short summary would be; we exist within what we do! :)
     
  18. Snoopy

    Snoopy Active Member

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    Punishment suggests a decision. A law merely operates.

    s.
     
  19. Netti-Netti

    Netti-Netti New Member

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    I probably overstated the case. Some acts are well-neigh unforgivable and result in very long stretches in a Buddhist hell, some of which are really grim.

    As I have suggested already, your original question assumed the notion of eternal damnation in Christianity. This basic premise is debatable.
     

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