Jesus&Hell

[Manji2012]

Okay, under the, "Abrahamic Religions" forum I posted a Thread titled, "The Rant of Manji2012", basically I just complained about the fear of not believing in Jesus as the only way means I have to go to hell. If you want to read more into detail on that just go ahead and take a look.

Anyways,

One guy replied that I had not found true Christianity and that there is no hell because it was just made up by the church. I dunno what the case is. I mean, Hell might not really be apart of Jewish religion I dunno, I am not quit sure where Christians get hell from but, I will say that I think Jesus did talk about hell though so.

I was just wondering if there were some Christians who actually do not believe Jesus is the only way for salvation and that hell does not exist. If so, please discuss in good detail why do not believe these things.

For those who do believe these things, then please explain in good detail why you do.

Hmmn, I bet my own Grandma believes that cause she said she does when she was talking by my Aunt who does not believe in Jesus Christ.

 

[path_of_one]

I believe everyone is saved through Christ. I don't believe people have to be Christian to obtain salvation through Christ. Two different issues in my opinion.

I don't believe in hell as a literal place, nor do I think God "sends" people to hell. What is translated as "hell" in the NT was actually several different terms in the original language, none of which meant "hell" in the way we think of it today. I think the current idea of hell was created to keep people in fear and make them easier to control.

Here is a good discussion on what Judaism says about the afterlife:

My Jewish Learning: Life After Death

Here are some good resources on the board concerning Judaism, Christianity, and the concept of hell (including longer discussions by me; I just don't have the time to write my longer-winded response at the moment):

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/hell-is-a-hoax-8528.html?highlight=hell

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/heaven-hell-and-the-devil-5853.html?highlight=hell

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/hell-or-heck-5846.html?highlight=hell

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/what-about-hell-3333.html?highlight=hell

http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/what-is-the-meaning-of-1478.html?highlight=hell

 

[Dawud]

I believe everyone is saved through Christ. I don't believe people have to be Christian to obtain salvation through Christ. Two different issues in my opinion.

I like this. Every Christian, Muslim, and Baha'i believes Jesus, but I believe Jews can be saved, also, and Hindus and Buddhists and Zoroastrians, anyone who loves the light, loves goodness. We're not saved by our own works, but God has mercy, He is the Most Merciful.

 

[cyberpi]

I submit where there is a steady stream of snafu and fubar... there is hell.

 

[mee]

For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. John 3;16-17



that is what Jehovahs witnesses believe



but as for the teaching of a litral hellfire no no and no .

the bible does not teach that false manmade doctrine, and no Jesus didnt either .
having the correct understanding about what the bible REALLY teaches works wonders .

.
lets put the hose on the fire of hell .

 

[wil]

Go stand in any line, at the grocery store, for an amusement park ride or the unemployment office, you'll see folks that are ok, folks that are irritated, folks that seem happy...heaven and hell are here and now and they are a choice.

Consider any classroom some kids hate the teacher, the study is too hard, the teacher is out to get them, others are having a good time, enjoying learning and have a high view of the teacher. While we can argue extenuationg circumstances till the cows come home...for the most part we choose how we react to our surroundings and choose for them to have the aspects of heaven or hell.

 

[Dondi]

Go stand in any line, at the grocery store, for an amusement park ride or the unemployment office, you'll see folks that are ok, folks that are irritated, folks that seem happy...heaven and hell are here and now and they are a choice.

Consider any classroom some kids hate the teacher, the study is too hard, the teacher is out to get them, others are having a good time, enjoying learning and have a high view of the teacher. While we can argue extenuationg circumstances till the cows come home...for the most part we choose how we react to our surroundings and choose for them to have the aspects of heaven or hell.

Life is not all grocery stores and amusement park rides. Some people are living in hell here and now, and not by choice.

 

[wil]

Life is not all grocery stores and amusement park rides. Some people are living in hell here and now, and not by choice.

The choice relates to perceptions of the circumstances. It is apparent that when you read biographies in concentration camps and prisons that people choose to see things differently, despite the worst of physical circumstances, some choose a different perception.

 

[Dondi]

The choice relates to perceptions of the circumstances. It is apparent that when you read biographies in concentration camps and prisons that people choose to see things differently, despite the worst of physical circumstances, some choose a different perception.

I would be interested to know what possible outlook those in concentration camps would have. Could you direct me to some samples you've found?

 

[Thomas]

I believe everyone is saved through Christ. I don't believe people have to be Christian to obtain salvation through Christ. Two different issues in my opinion.

I tend to agree.

Christ works always and everywhere, eternally, fort the Salvation of souls, He is the Good Shepherd and the Logos of all ...

Revelation is the irruption of the supernatural into the natural, the making known of that which lies beyond reason, logic, and human comprehension ... "making straight the way of the Lord" ... it is a manifestation of the Mystery without which Christ would then be anonymous and invisible, unseen and unknown ...

The function of 'Religion' then is not the Salvation of man, it is Christ alone who saves ... the function of religion is to act as symbol and sign "Salvation can be found here"... And for those who wish to see its meaning realised in the world, 'Church' is a community called forth to live according to the principle, and become the Body by which its Presence irradiates the world ...

Without Revelation, and without Religion, and without the Saints and the Sages ... we simply would not know, how could we?

Blessed indeed is he who comes in the Name of the Lord, whomsoever he might be ...

+++

Hell is then a human option:
A: self-exclusion from Real Life (the vertical dimension),
B: self-exclusion from Living the Real Life (the horizontal).

Gehenna actually describes the condition better and more accurately that Sheol or Hades ... not so much a place of pain, suffering, torment, etc., but simply a place where you are just ... abandoned, unwanted ... I am reminded of that man in New York State who broke down and, ignored at the roadside, and driven back inside his car by the blizzard conditions, continued to signal and wave as the cars went by ... but no-one stopped ... eventually he shot himself, and if I recall correctly, the note simply said 'no one cares' ...

Thomas

 

[Manji2012]

It feels good to hear that the word hell in the Bible is a translation of many words that mean something different than what we might think of hell as in a lake of fire that people burn in forever not consumed in agony.

Anyway,

Once a man asked me if I knew God loves me. I know God loves me because through my encounter with Buddhism I had a profound experience of freedom, love, and happiness but, I was reluctant to say that to this person because I thought he would tell me God or Jesus is the only way and my experience with Buddhism means nothing and will not lead to any salvation for me after I die S

So, I just told him kindly that I was not interested and to please leave me in peace. As he walked away he said, "When you die it will be too late." I interpreted that to mean, as in, after I die, because I do not believe in Jesus as the only way, then I will go to hell forever.

I think it is safe to say that much of the Christian world does not agree with the replies people have made here. I mean, go look at Bezel333 on youtube, he deffinately does not agree.

I dunno how I will get free from this fear. I guess I will just have to read how hell is not necessarily in the Bible. I find that impossible.

 

[Manji2012]

This belief that Jesus is the only way to salvation I think comes from that verse in the New Testament that goes:

"I am the way, the life, and the truth, no one comes unto the father but through me."

I am familiar there is an alternative perspective or interpretation of this scripture to mean that God is infinite Love and to know that is to know God which any Buddhist, or any person out there can experience regardless of whatever religion or non religion a person would identify with.

My question is, what is your interpretation of this scripture? Does it mean that Jesus is the only way or what?

 

[Dawud]

This belief that Jesus is the only way to salvation I think comes from that verse in the New Testament that goes:

"I am the way, the life, and the truth, no one comes unto the father but through me."

I am familiar there is an alternative perspective or interpretation of this scripture to mean that God is infinite Love and to know that is to know God which any Buddhist, or any person out there can experience regardless of whatever religion or non religion a person would identify with.

My question is, what is your interpretation of this scripture? Does it mean that Jesus is the only way or what?

Since you asked, I'll give you an answer. It doesn't mean you have to agree with me or anything, just giving you my answer. Jesus is the Way to the Father. Baha'u'llah, I believe, and I'm saying this because you asked, is His return in the glory of the Father. So if Jesus is the Way to the Father, He's the Way to Baha'u'llah, the return of Christ in the glory of the Father. That's my belief, but you are free to yours.

 

[path_of_one]

This belief that Jesus is the only way to salvation I think comes from that verse in the New Testament that goes:

"I am the way, the life, and the truth, no one comes unto the father but through me."

My question is, what is your interpretation of this scripture? Does it mean that Jesus is the only way or what?

My interpretation:

"I am the embodiment of the Word (logos) of God. I have ever been, and ever will I be. I am the Bridge between humanity and divinity, and all who go back to the Creator, the Uncreated One, cross over this Bridge."

This is why everyone saved (in my opinion, everyone, eventually) are saved through Christ (the Logos, the Word of God).

Nowhere did Jesus say you had to join a particular church, say a prayer that he is God, or anything of the sort to be saved by him. He only said that all who go to the Father (Creator- Divine One God) go through him (the Logos, the Word). I think the interpretation that you have to join a certain church, subscribe to a particular doctrine, or call yourself a "Christian" to be saved are erroneous. The scripture never indicates this.

But the concepts of a literal hell and having to go to the "right" church and all that sure are handy for controlling people...

 

[juantoo3]

I would be interested to know what possible outlook those in concentration camps would have. Could you direct me to some samples you've found?

I'm not wil, and I hope he will answer your question too. "The Diary of Anne Frank" jumps to my mind.

 

[mee]

It feels good to hear that the word hell in the Bible is a translation of many words that mean something different than what we might think of hell as in a lake of fire that people burn in forever not consumed in agony.

quote]
The lake of fire is spoken of in the last book of the bible ,and as we all know the book of revelation is highly symbolic.



it is symbolic of total destruction.
and you will notice that death itself is thrown in there, along with hades(mankinds common grave)



and that is the good thing about it all, DEATH is going to be swallowed up forever.

It was never Jehovahs original purpose for mankind to die , but we all know who threw a spanner in the works,
but it is good to know that God has everything in place to fix the problem of DEATH .

and whatever goes in that symbolic lake of fire will not come out again.



GONE FOR GOOD

 

[17th Angel]

I would be interested to know what possible outlook those in concentration camps would have. Could you direct me to some samples you've found?

I'm not will neither... But here are a few of my suggestions. And yes Frank is one MANY examples, I -KNOW- it isn't on the same level, but you found that the below traits were also present in prison of war camps for soldiers.... Such as it became a fun competition for soldiers to escape...... Hell our boys built a plane to escape Colditz. (The plane worked by the way, it could fly.)

Strength?
Prevail?
Unity?
Victory?
Unleashing of character?
Example?

Good in -everything-.

 

[mee]

My question is, what is your interpretation of this scripture? Does it mean that Jesus is the only way or what?

Yes indeed he really is the way the truth and the life , and as his father in heaven told us , listen to him Luke 9;35

and this is what Jesus said in john 17;3



This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ. john 17;3



the bible tells us that the most high God is JEHOVAH in PSALM 83;18

he is the true God , and taking in knowledge about him leads to EVERLASTING LIFE. and its all in the bible


and we also have to take in knowledge about the one he sent forth and that is JESUS CHRIST , and again it is all in the bible .


"For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. john 3;16-17

 

[Thomas]

I would be interested to know what possible outlook those in concentration camps would have. Could you direct me to some samples you've found?

Look for St Maximilian Kolbe.

Thomas

 

[wil]

I would be interested to know what possible outlook those in concentration camps would have. Could you direct me to some samples you've found?

I replied, where did it go...number one in my book, Meaning of life, Viktor Frankl

Not a concentration camp, but hell in anyone's book try the biography of Nelson Mandela