Christians

Manji2012

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There is something that I have to know about the world and Christianity; my questions is:

Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic, believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, never sinned, performed miracles, died on the cross but resurrected, bodily ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God, died for our sins, and if you do not believe this, if you are a Buddhist, you will be going to hell because, Jesus is the only way on to the father?

Do most Christians in American and around the the entire world, the contemporary widely accepted, widely believed Christianity, that this, "Dogma" or "Creed", if it be lawful to call it that, Most Christians believe this?

Do most Christians believe that, regardless of reading the Bible and being able to say hey, "This is not Biblical". Despite that being the case, most Christians do believe that Jesus died for our sins and people who do not accept Jesus and decided to follow the teachings of the Buddha instead, will be going hell, according to their belief, am I correct?
 
How do you determin what a christian is? And then how do you confirm the majority?


I would lean to say "Yeah -every- christian believes jesus died for our sins." But do they? christianity the word, is becoming like Paganism the word.. It defines so many, many groups that differ here and there but are connected by a few loose connections... That is how I see christianity. Lots of groups, and even more opinions, views, values, norms, traditions, traits, dogmas, laws, whatever...... You even as crazy as it sounds get debates, arguments, power struggles, populairty contests within the same group between its members....... So I don't think we can Say "they all agree on this" Or even fathom the majority :/ But I know we can say quite easily "they don't -all- agree with that. Or the Majroity doesn't agree with that" Does majority mean somethings right?
 
How do you determine what a christian is? And then how do you confirm the majority?
Jesus said:
John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

I would say that this would open up Christianity to many who don't consider themselves "Christian," and would exclude many who do consider themselves "Christian."
 
Jesus said:
John 13:34-35
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”


mee has found those disciples , and now i know who Jesus disciples are. and they are from all nations:) its JEHOVAHS WITNESSES:)and they are in unity
 
Jesus said:
John 13:34-35

34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
I would say that this would open up Christianity to many who don't consider themselves "Christian," and would exclude many who do consider themselves "Christian."

Yeah, you'd be suprised.... Jesus said many things... Doesn't seem to matter to a fair few....
 
Yeah, you'd be suprised.... Jesus said many things... Doesn't seem to matter to a fair few....
very true:)

mixing divinely inspired Bible truth and human philosophy, many have fell into a trap.

Let us therefore take to heart the Scriptural warning against "paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.

1 Timothy 4:1.


i am glad to say that Jehovahs witnesses have not fell into any manmade doctrines as many have .

Jesus said that he is "God’s Son" and that the "Father sent me forth," Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that God is greater than Jesus. (John 10:36; 6:57)
Jesus himself acknowledged: "The Father is greater than I am." (John 14:28; 8:28)
Jehovahs witnesses do not believe that Jesus is equal with the Father, as the Trinity doctrine says.
Rather, they believe that he was created by God and that he is subordinate to Him.—Colossians 1:15; 1 Corinthians 11:3.

but as you mentioned, it does not seem to matter to many what Jesus said and taught.


 
Catholics have their peculiarities as do protestants and other forms of Christendom having devolved to become primarily part of secular societal life differing in beliefs.. Christianity is something else.

"In the Church, considered as a social organism, the mysteries inevitably degenerate into beliefs." Simone Weil

When discussing Christendom you refer to its beliefs. when discussing Christianity, the question is for example, how to ponder, to pray, or achieve the attention of the heart.

Christianity is concerned with process leading towards revelation while Christendom is concerned with beliefs.
 
It is nice to see that there are people that do not believe in those miracles as the only way to be "Saved" but, I know most Christians do believe that.

When I say most Christians, you can not include Jehovah's witness, and Mormons will exclude them. They are the "Odd" ones. Sometimes, Catholics are treated that way too but, the Christians in the world believe you have to be "Saved" to get salvation.

The Church next to my block believes that I am sure. I just know they do. I will ask them and the pastor to find out.

Okay, every Christian I met believes you gotta be saved. I have seen this over and over and over again. A police officer that works at the same area I do, his parents were Christians missionaries in Ethiopia. He found out I was a Buddhist and confronted me about how it is important to believe in Jesus to be saved. He talked about Jesus' virgin birth and that he Died for my sins on the cross. He told me about the "Original Sin" of Adam &Eve.

Another co-worker, Jordon, Goes to a Bible college, believes that you gotta be "Saved". Another Co-worker, Malleisah, you gotta be "Saved". Another two other Christians, David and Zen, I used to go to their church in my greener years. I asked them what they believe and they still accord with John Piper. Yup, you gotta be saved. Jesus is the only way. Buddhists will go to hell eventually. THey believe that.

Okay, now there are some exceptions. My co-worker Marty Reed, is a Christian and he told me Buddhist is just as valid. I then asked him, "I see, that's nice. So, your dad is a pastor right?" he says, "Yes, my dad is a pastor." I then said, "What does he think about your opinion of Buddhism being just as valid?" Marty Reed's reply was, "He would disagree with me and tell me Jesus is the only way."

You see? The Pastor son does not agree but that established church agrees Jesus is the only way and the Buddhists go to hell. Sorry, the institution is the vast majority.

Another Christian, Hiwot Waldayes, "Told me that if you try your best to be a good person then you will not go to hell." I then said to her, "For more or for less, I agree with you but, your church and pastor does not." She said nothing in reply.

Another Christian, Molly Ahlef, does not care for Christians to be Jesus Freaks and into the "Saved" kind of thing but, when I ask her to use the Bible to defend her point of view of Christianity she was unable to do that. I was like thinking to myself, "I agree with you for the most part Molly but, I can not take you seriously since you can not even defend your convictions or beliefs."

So, yeah, there are some who think differently about jesus and Christianity but, I cannot take them seriously because, they can not even defend their own ideas.

For years I have walked out in the city and have been confronted by multitudes of Professing Christians that Buddhists go to hell and Christians go to heaven because they believe Jesus died for our sins and that is the only way.

Just look at Oprah and Eckhart Tolle and how Christians responded to that. Eckhart Tolle brings all that good spirituality and Buddhisim, which, jesus was mostly about, for more or for less, but, look at how Christians will say, that stuff is garbage it is false and Jesus is the only way.

The same thing again!

Well, I am gonna go to all the churches in my city and keep asking all the Christians I can find, watch, all of em are gonna tell me the same thing. Jesus is the only way, Buddhists go to hell.

I bet my neighbor, My burgers, believes that. Watch, I just know it.
 
I'd refer to the recent PEW research. Something around 75% of Christians believed that their religion was not the only way to salvation.

So to answer your question, based on the recent research, we can say that approximately 75% of Christians in the United States do not believe you have to be Christian (i.e., conforming to mainstream Christian beliefs, which you enumerate) to have salvation.

I agree with that. I don't think it's about religious affiliation. Salvation is a gift. The evidence of salvation is life in the Spirit, which is revealed in the fruits of the Spirit... ultimately, revealed in love for one's fellow beings.
 
There is something that I have to know about the world and Christianity; my questions is:

Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic, believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, never sinned, performed miracles, died on the cross but resurrected, bodily ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God, died for our sins, and if you do not believe this, if you are a Buddhist, you will be going to hell because, Jesus is the only way on to the father?

Do most Christians in American and around the the entire world, the contemporary widely accepted, widely believed Christianity, that this, "Dogma" or "Creed", if it be lawful to call it that, Most Christians believe this?

Do most Christians believe that, regardless of reading the Bible and being able to say hey, "This is not Biblical". Despite that being the case, most Christians do believe that Jesus died for our sins and people who do not accept Jesus and decided to follow the teachings of the Buddha instead, will be going hell, according to their belief, am I correct?
Yes and no to your first question. Second, Christ said "none can get to the Father, but through me". That leaves a very wide area of road open for getting to heaven, or as some put it, paradise. But what good is heaven if you can't get in to see the Father, unless you go through the Son, First?
 
Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic, believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin, never sinned, performed miracles, died on the cross but resurrected, bodily ascended into Heaven, sits at the right hand of God, died for our sins, and if you do not believe this, if you are a Buddhist, you will be going to hell because, Jesus is the only way on to the father?

As a christian i can tell you that all the above statements regarding christianity are correct. The answer to your question at the end is not a simple one, nor is it one that men like you and I can give a definitive answer to, because it has much to do with the heart that only God knows, and it has to do with many social factors that are out of ones control that have blocked out the gospel, and it also has to do with the Spirit and what it revealed and what was accepted or rejected.
 
Christendom is concerned with beliefs.


beliefs based on what? it should be based on what the bible really teaches


and what Jesus really taught .

but it seems to mee that christendom base their beliefs on manmade doctrines instead. hmmmmm interesting:)
 
the apostles creed... I cannot say it anymore in church, in full.. I skip the parts I don't agree with... (the virgin, the rising again bit...etc) is that wrong?
 
the apostles creed... I cannot say it anymore in church, in full.. I skip the parts I don't agree with... (the virgin, the rising again bit...etc) is that wrong?
Well, the Nicene creed is a declaration of the Christian faith, as a whole. To deny the virgin birth, places Jesus in position of extraordinary man, not God, and implies that he was born into sin. The denial of the resurection of Jesus after death, clearly removes any Christianity from the faith.

So, I say yes, that is wrong (if one is insisting they are still Christian).
 
Well, the Nicene creed is a declaration of the Christian faith, as a whole. To deny the virgin birth, places Jesus in position of extraordinary man, not God, and implies that he was born into sin. The denial of the resurection of Jesus after death, clearly removes any Christianity from the faith.

So, I say yes, that is wrong (if one is insisting they are still Christian).

As far as declarations and Creeds are concerned, I don't agree entirely with the idea that you have to conform to everything in that declaration or Creed to be a Christian.

Life is a journey. In a journey we learn and discover things. What makes us Christian is that we have started the journey, because Christianity is about a journey.

Conformity dehumanises our existence because it demands that we adhere to the "cold logic" of a declaration or Creed. The idea of conforming to a declaration or Creed is plausible, but it's what a religious leader believes is essential to our journey, but not necessarily what God wants. Our relationship with God is more important than a declaration or Creed. The declaration or Creed is secondary.

Not everybody met Jesus in the same time or place, some met him in the market-place, some at home, some at a party, some in the desert and wilderness. Jesus said many words and in different times and places, and those words were potent and forceful. I don't deny that the words in the Bible are important, because the words in the Bible are potent and forceful. But he said these things in different situations and contexts. We can't go into our 21st-century reality and try to shoehorn some of the stuff in the Bible into the minds of our friends and family because it'd probably be taken out of context.

There is something more important than us chanting his words and dictating to non-adherents what to think and believe as if we know better because we are adherents of Christianity. Jesus said these things as part of a journey, the journey of the person receiving the words. If we are to properly understand the meaning of these words, we must receive them in the same way as the people received them in the story told in Scripture.

The trouble with declarations and Creeds is that they lack that original context. It makes being a Christian impersonal, which is what I mean by forcing someone to follow "cold logic." It is when we shoehorn a concept into their minds when they are not ready for it. But that doesn't mean they're not Christian. They have started the journey. But we, in our misguided understanding, think we know better than God how to live as Christians and shoehorn a declaration and Creed into their minds.

God is everywhere. Jesus could meet people anywhere. Yet when we force people to conform to a declaration or Creed, we forfeit the quality of "everywhereness" and "anywhereness" in a potential relationship with Jesus or God. We force people to meet God where we want them to meet God and that sabotages their relationship with God because they are not experiencing God in their own way. We are suppressing their individuality and spontaneity, and God made us all to be different. We should be letting people meet God in a way that He wants, not the way we want them to meet Him. That is what I think it means for us to be innocent like a child, that it opens the door for you to heaven. Don't follow the dictates of religious leaders, do what the child in you, the child of God in you says is right. -- and every child of God is able to defeat and defy the world, and the religious leaders are part of the world.

It is the journey, not the declaration or Creed that makes us Christian.

There are multitudes of interpretations. But actually if you think about it, the interpretation is more important and helpful to the interpreter himself than to the people listening to the interpretation. The interpreter is talking about how he sees his own journey but he can't really speak for the journeys of others.

For me, being a Christian is about reliving the journey of the first-century Christians and seeking the first-century experience, seeking to know what the first-century adherents possessed that we have long lost. There is no rule, declaration or Creed that makes us Christian. It's the journey, our dedication and devotion to the cause that makes us Christian.
 
As far as declarations and Creeds are concerned, I don't agree entirely with the idea that you have to conform to everything in that declaration or Creed to be a Christian.

Life is a journey. In a journey we learn and discover things. What makes us Christian is that we have started the journey, because Christianity is about a journey.

Conformity dehumanises our existence because it demands that we adhere to the "cold logic" of a declaration or Creed. The idea of conforming to a declaration or Creed is plausible, but it's what a religious leader believes is essential to our journey, but not necessarily what God wants. Our relationship with God is more important than a declaration or Creed. The declaration or Creed is secondary.

Not everybody met Jesus in the same time or place, some met him in the market-place, some at home, some at a party, some in the desert and wilderness. Jesus said many words and in different times and places, and those words were potent and forceful. I don't deny that the words in the Bible are important, because the words in the Bible are potent and forceful. But he said these things in different situations and contexts. We can't go into our 21st-century reality and try to shoehorn some of the stuff in the Bible into the minds of our friends and family because it'd probably be taken out of context.

There is something more important than us chanting his words and dictating to non-adherents what to think and believe as if we know better because we are adherents of Christianity. Jesus said these things as part of a journey, the journey of the person receiving the words. If we are to properly understand the meaning of these words, we must receive them in the same way as the people received them in the story told in Scripture.

The trouble with declarations and Creeds is that they lack that original context. It makes being a Christian impersonal, which is what I mean by forcing someone to follow "cold logic." It is when we shoehorn a concept into their minds when they are not ready for it. But that doesn't mean they're not Christian. They have started the journey. But we, in our misguided understanding, think we know better than God how to live as Christians and shoehorn a declaration and Creed into their minds.

God is everywhere. Jesus could meet people anywhere. Yet when we force people to conform to a declaration or Creed, we forfeit the quality of "everywhereness" and "anywhereness" in a potential relationship with Jesus or God. We force people to meet God where we want them to meet God and that sabotages their relationship with God because they are not experiencing God in their own way. We are suppressing their individuality and spontaneity, and God made us all to be different. We should be letting people meet God in a way that He wants, not the way we want them to meet Him. That is what I think it means for us to be innocent like a child, that it opens the door for you to heaven. Don't follow the dictates of religious leaders, do what the child in you, the child of God in you says is right. -- and every child of God is able to defeat and defy the world, and the religious leaders are part of the world.

It is the journey, not the declaration or Creed that makes us Christian.

There are multitudes of interpretations. But actually if you think about it, the interpretation is more important and helpful to the interpreter himself than to the people listening to the interpretation. The interpreter is talking about how he sees his own journey but he can't really speak for the journeys of others.

For me, being a Christian is about reliving the journey of the first-century Christians and seeking the first-century experience, seeking to know what the first-century adherents possessed that we have long lost. There is no rule, declaration or Creed that makes us Christian. It's the journey, our dedication and devotion to the cause that makes us Christian.
The two points Francis brought up are in fact at the heart of what it takes to acknowledge Jesus as God and perfect. (dvine).

Muslims do not believe in the ressurection either, though they respect Jesus immensely.

I am not referring to how a person should live and act in order to be a Christian, but rather what a man confesses which identifies him as a person of Christian faith.

/r

Q
 
There is something that I have to know about the world and Christianity; my questions is:

Do the vast majority of Christians world wide, Protestant and Catholic,

Let me know if you wish to include the Orthodox in your questions, and I'll jump in here.
 
I agree 100% with what Seattlegal said. There is a phrase in the gospels in which Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man cometh unto the Father but by me." Jesus personified these elements similar to the way wisdom speaks in Proverbs, Abel's blood speaks from the earth, and like the heavens declare the glory of God. Jesus is criticizing Temple extremists and religion mongers who say that ritual sacrifices, rules, and dogma are the way to the Father and who place inordinate burdens on people. Those things are not the way to the Father. He is saying the way to the Father is truth, the tree of life, and Godly Instruction, which are really all part of the same force. Brothers, we are each advised to be filled with the spirit and to count love as greater than knowledge, which passes away.
 
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