prophets and salvation

Discussion in 'Christianity' started by dailogue is the best, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. BlaznFattyz

    BlaznFattyz Well-Known Member

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    As the Word of God, He knows all things with the Father. As Jesus being born a man, he humbled himself and was born under the law and made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men and obedient to the law, even to the point of death on the cross. It is in this state that he dealt with the limitations of being a man which is not knowing all things. However, there are times, for the glory of God, that Christ knows people's hearts, their secrets, and the future. After his ressurrection he is exalted back to heaven, glorified back to the Father in a state of knowing all things, as he proclaims he is Alpha and Omega. There he is Lord God and Saviour on the throne with power and glory.
     
  2. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Oh please you have to show me where David was worshiped. lol

    I would like you to read further in that passage where satan tempts Jesus and Jesus finally tells him you cannot tempt the Lord your God.. :p

    I stand on scripture.. I base my entire faith and my belief system on the Word of God... that means that every word written is truth revealed by the Holy Spirit of God. I cannot have a peaceful discussion with someone that does not respect that because the Word is the authority on which I speak. Jesus did not have to say He was God bow down and worship me it because it was known and He died for that fact,

    If you just read the NT without trying to read it out of context to unvalidate some Christian doctrine....you might understand where we come from. But you cannot because you are trying to prove it wrong and you will have to use better arguments than that to get ME to think otherwise. ;)
     
  3. sonoman

    sonoman Interfaith Forums

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    Some bow down to idols made of stone. Others bow down to ones made of ink and paper. When a piece of wood tells you it is God and don't listen to the man speaking next to you, what is that but idol worship? One of the reasons why our world is so filled with religiously inspired violence is because believers will not stop to think with a clear mind and heart about the words they are believing in, words they have no idea who wrote about a fellow who's life on earth no one on earth can verify. Such a leap of faith to put all one's faith in God on words written by strangers no one knows who they are. But that's what blind faith is all about.
     
  4. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Well, your "second language" isn't too bad at all.
     
  5. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    ...and the devil laid that golden fiddle at his feet, 'cause he knew that he'd been beat...

    appropriate analogy, for the times.:eek:
     
  6. Quahom1

    Quahom1 What was the question?

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    Faith is as deaf and as blind as the one unwilling to listen or see the simple truth.

    When the truth says to be "excellent" towards each other, and that is ignored for personal desires and agenda, then the faithful are "blind and deaf", of their own accord, not anything a book may or may not have written...

    Like my dad says, "don't b itch if the car won't run, because you refuse to follow the operator's manual"...:rolleyes::eek:
     
  7. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

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    Well, Mee, we are all God's children. You, me, and everybody. And so was Jesus.

    God is our Father in the metaphorical way.
     
  8. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

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    What about this, Faithfulservant:

    "Then David said to all the assembly, ‘Bless the LORD your God.’ And all the assembly blessed the LORD, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads, and worshiped the LORD, and did obeisance to the king." 1 Chronicles 29:20

    "Then David said to all the assembly, ‘Bless the LORD your God.’ And all the assembly blessed the LORD, the God of their fathers, and bowed their heads and paid homage to the LORD and to the king." ESV
     
  9. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    Dialogue

    first off you said that David was worshiped in the NT.. 1 chron is the OT

    You are also guilty of the same thing many others do ...taking things out of context or failing to read the entire chapter... you could get the bible to say anything doing this lo. let me help you.

    solomon was being crowned king of Israel and david being before the masses was praising God. They were not worshiping Solomon they were bowing before him. There is a difference in the two but you may want to take this to the judiasm forum and ask bananabrain he would know better than I.
     
  10. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

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    Sorry for the mistake and thank you for the correction, FS. And thanks for your help, indeed.

    Well, this is very clear, FS. As you said that there is a big difference between bowing down and worship.

    Now I can fully understand that you believe in the necessity of worshiping Jesus because there are some who worshiped Jesus and he didnt stop them.

    Well, at this moment, I have some questions, and I would be very grateful if you give me reasonable answers, Faithfulsevant

    What does it mean worship in those scriptures? Does it mean that Jesus knew that people thought of him absolute power? that he is God?! if Jesus is God, then why did he himself worshipped God and prayed to Him to help him to overcome his suffering? How can God ask for a help?!!!
     
  11. Faithfulservant

    Faithfulservant Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to clarify something...It isnt necessary that Jesus say a certain phrase in order for the truth of who He is to be made clear. He did not say I am God He did not say I am a prophet nor did He ever say I am a Man,..

    John 1:1,14, "
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

    John 20:28-29, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him,
    "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

    Heb. 1:8,
    "But of the Son He says, 'Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom.'"

    You cant say it any more simple. ;)

    As far as why did Jesus worship and pray to God the Father you must understand the trinity. Jesus was both a man and He also had a divine nature
    He added to himself human nature and became a man.

    The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.....and the word became flesh and dwelt among us"
    John 1:1, 14; and, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" Col 2:9. Jesus, as you can see has two natures. He is both God and man.

    Part one of His dual nature is that He is God
    He is worshiped Matthew 2:2,11, 14:33,28:9
    He is prayed to
    Acts 7:59. 1Cor, 1:2
    He was called God
    John 20:28, Heb 1:8
    He was called Son of God
    mark 1:1
    He is sinless
    1 peter 2:22, Heb 4:15
    He knew all things
    John 21:17
    He gives eternal life
    John 20:28
    The fullness of deity dwells in Him
    Col 2:9

    Part two of His dual nature is that He is Man
    He worshiped the Father John 17
    He prayed to the Father
    John 17:1
    He was called man
    mark 15:39, John 19:5
    He was called Son of Man
    John 19:35-37
    He was tempted
    Matthew 4:1
    He grew in wisdom
    Luke 2:52
    He died
    Roman 5:8
    He has a body of flesh and bones
    Luke 24:39


    As a man, Jesus needed to pray. When He was praying He was not praying to Himself, but to God the Father. I believe that Jesus sets the example for us on how we are to be as Christians and as children of God. He as a man would ask help of the Father.



    Do you not agree that we cannot know all the great mysteries of God? So can you understand the pressure you put on Christians in demanding answers to some of these great mysteries. We do the best we can in explaining them to you but if you cannot understand that God is greater than our understanding you will never be satisfied.





     
  12. 17th Angel

    17th Angel לבעוט את התחת ולקחת שמות

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    I think we should switch a few words....

    Can I share this psalm...

    Psalm 86... (by David by the way....)

    Please listen, YHWH,
    And answer my prayer!
    I am poor and helpess.

    Protect me and save me.
    Because you are my god.
    I am your faithful servant,
    and I trust you.

    Be kind to me! I pray to you all day!

    Make my heart glad!
    I serve you, and my prayer is sincere.

    you willingly forgive,
    and your love is always there.
    For those who pray to you.

    Please listen, YHWH.
    Answer my prayer for help.

    When I am in trouble, I pray,
    Knowing you will listen.

    No other gods are like you.
    Only you work miracles.

    You created each nation,
    and they will all bow down to worship and honor you.

    You perform great wonders,
    beacuse you alone are god.

    Teach me to follow you,
    And I will obey your truth.
    Always keep me faithful.

    With all my heart I thank you.
    I praise you, YHWH god.

    Your love for me is so great,
    that you protected me,
    from death and the grave.

    Proud and violent enemies,
    who don't care about you,
    have ganged up to attack and kill me.

    But you are YHWH, god,
    are kind and merciful.
    You don't easily get angry,
    and your love can always be trusted.

    I serve you, YHWH.
    And I am the child of one of your servants.
    Look on me with kindness.
    Make me strong and save me.

    Show that you approve of me!
    Then my hateful enemies,
    will feel like fools,
    Because you have helped me
    and comforted me.

    amen.

    I think David shows that we can have an amazing understanding of God.

    Although I feel like what Dial is asking can be answered by simply saying... God didn't pray for help.... :) But that is my take on it.
     
  13. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

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    Well, FS, I believe that Jesus came with a definite message of course. He was chosen by God to do a very difinite mission. Hence, Jesus says a lot in the Bible that shows the kind of his message: who is God, and who is he, and why was he sent to his people. Present me what Jesus himself said, not what others said about him or how they interpret his words and actions.


     
  14. dailogue is the best

    dailogue is the best New member

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    Thank you, Alex:D. It is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry clear
     

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