Reading with New Eyes, Hearing with New Ears

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So, there was a Jew, a Hindu, a Christain and a Muslim (alternate designations allowed) standing around wondering why a Baha'i has a map and traversing a lush field with a detector, supplies and a mapped direction?

So that the introductory framework, now we need the narrative and the punchline?

Regards Tony
 
To stay in the metaphor: Who buried those mines, and what were they protecting?

Where I live, there is an ancient earthwork fortification running across the peninsula, dating from the early middle ages. During the last war around here, the ancient fortifications were reinforced with concrete... some defensive lines are deeply entrenched! There is a highway crossing the old defenses, and international traffic is flowing, but those dikes and concrete blocks are still there...

I like your image of progress, of moving across the landscape. But the landscape was also shaped by us.
 
I don't think it's right to take firm positions about what God is. The spirit moves as it wills. I believe God reveals himself in a personal individual way to every individual 'seeker' in quietness and humility of soul, regardless of time place or religion. I believe it's only wrong to tell other people what to believe about God -- that what they believe is wrong.

I personally don't think the world or human nature will ever change. It is the testing ground of the soul. I believe we should give to the world (nature) what belongs to the world and to God what belongs to God.
 
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To stay in the metaphor: Who buried those mines, and what were they protecting?

I will give that a go. The mines buried are those of the additions to scripture, the exclusive doctrines.

They are buried to protect the mind of those that want to take hold of God given Faiths and control the direction of all those that walk that path.

Fortunately, God maps those mines and gives the path to others. They lead people away from those past doctrines.

Regards Tony
 
A one world government theocracy based on unquestioned adherence to the writings of a 19th century self-proclaimed messiah that over-rules all other previous religious beliefs, and regulated by an inner-circle council of elders -- what could possibly go wrong?
 
I see the Message given by Muhammad was in part given to explain the Station of Jesus the Christ in relation to God, that by then had been embraced under a teaching called the Trinity. That doctrine ended up being enforced by heresy.
Here's the stumbling block, always ... at one point there is progressive revelation, but then later revelation refutes the earlier, and in fact declares the earlier a heresy.

... and we're back to the old dance again.

So while I believe we all sup from the same well, these days I withdraw as soon as one side makes a point that we're all one, but you are wrong.
 
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A one world government theocracy based on unquestioned adherence to the writings of a 19th century self-proclaimed messiah that over-rules all other previous religious beliefs, and regulated by an inner-circle council of elders -- what could possibly go wrong?
@Tone Bristow-Stagg
If this brief dismissal of the entire Baha'i 'religion' seems simplistic and shallow, it's no worse than your dismissal of Christianity, imo
I see the Message given by Muhammad was in part given to explain the Station of Jesus the Christ in relation to God, that by then had been embraced under a teaching called the Trinity. That doctrine ended up being enforced by heresy.

This doctrine has bound many to a teaching that is not found in the Bible, if anyone says anything different, then any modern day Christian will immediately reject it without any just consideration of any other view.

That Jesus is not God, is seen as immediate blasphemy. Yet I see it is has become the most important key to acceptance of the Day of God.

Regards Tony
 
So, there was a Jew, a Hindu, a Christain and a Muslim (alternate designations allowed) standing around wondering why a Baha'i has a map and traversing a lush field with a detector, supplies and a mapped direction?

So that the introductory framework, now we need the narrative and the punchline?

Regards Tony

All I know is that I am probably the one with the hat mine clearing, since I don't like minefields :)
 
A one world government theocracy based on unquestioned adherence to the writings of a 19th century self-proclaimed messiah that over-rules all other previous religious beliefs, and regulated by an inner-circle council of elders -- what could possibly go wrong?

While I have massive reservations about the political and social system outlined in the Baha'i writings, and you pose a valid question, I also think it's a bit one-dimensional to reduce any religion or world-view to the politics. Not that I haven't done that myself, many times, even on this forum ;)

I guess the challenge of a Baha'i world view with its emphasis on Unity would be to reconcile the ideal of Unity with the ideal of honoring preceding revelations and their faiths, which by their very nature resist unification. So how do you approach that challenge in your personal practice, @Tone Bristow-Stagg ? And, even if you have a lovely passage of Baha'i scripture ready to answer my question, I'd actually appreciate reading your own thoughts and words even more.
 
Immanent 21st century global catastrophe will force people to realise the need for a common global purpose and the Baha'i wisdom will emerge as the only practical provider of unity and leadership.
 
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Immanent 21st century global catastrophe ...
It's a tricky one ... populations are quite small in Europe, they would have to go some to make headway. In crisis, people tend to go to the familiar?

I think the Baha'i ideal is inviting because of its apparent universalism, but when its inherent suprematism comes through (as it seems to me), then it becomes less so.

It would have to tackle gender bias in its leadership, too. I mean, we Catlicks have an excuse :)D), not so what the Baha'i reasoning is, other than traditional cultural gender stereotypes?
 
I'd actually appreciate reading your own thoughts and words even more.
I don't think it is encouraged, as perhaps causing misunderstanding. It is advised to quote the words of the master
 
I don't think it is encouraged, as perhaps causing misunderstanding. It is advised to quote the words of the master

I think The Master refers to Abdul Baha, not Baha'u'llah?

It would be understood that a personal take on any topic here was personal and not speaking for the Baha'i faith as a whole.
 
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I think The Master refers to Abdul Baha, not Baha'u'llah?

It would be understood that a personal take on any topic here was personal and not speaking for the Baha'i faith as a whole.
Ok. I think Prophet is the correct term for Baha'u'llah? I apologize and don't want to offend @Tone Bristow-Stagg
 
Catholics put up with more abuse than most other faiths. It's not unreasonable that Baha'i members should answer the hard questions addressed towards them, rather than taking offence at the fact, imo

Am just rehashing this post as a reminder of where the Catholic money goes: it's not into golden Vatican thrones. And the question: before you rubbish Catholics -- does your faith send missionaries to lepers and provide schools and hospitals for the most deprived of all humanity, in the most difficult and dangerous places on earth?


Is it time to repeat the often forgotten point the Catholic Church is the biggest non-gov charity on earth, and has missionaries working with lepers and aids patients in the most difficult and dangerous places in the world
https://catholicherald.co.uk/a-worldwide-force-for-good/

The world’s biggest charity


"Stalin famously said of the Church, “The Pope! How many divisions has he?” Less well known is Churchill’s response that Stalin “might have mentioned a number of legions not always visible on parade”. Indeed, the reach and influence of the Church are not easily described by statistics alone, yet the raw statistics are staggering enough.

The Church operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics. Caritas, the umbrella organisation for Catholic aid agencies, estimates that spending by its affiliates totals between £2 billion and £4 billion, making it one of the biggest aid agencies in the world.

Even these numbers only tell half the tale. Caritas does not include development spending by a host of religious orders and other Catholic charities, while most of the 200,000 Catholic parishes around the world operate their own small-scale charitable projects which are never picked up in official figures. Establishing like-for-like comparisons is hard, but there can be little doubt that in pretty much every field of social action, from education to health to social care, the Church is the largest and most significant non-state organisation in the world.

A sceptic might point out that that influence can be both positive and negative. So, for example, it might be queried whether the Church’s work in education or health would be more effective if control was switched to the state. In some ways, this is the wrong question – in much of the developing world, if the Church was not involved, the services would not be provided at all. But there is a good deal of research which has attempted to compare the performance of Catholic provision of education or health with that of other providers and, in general, Catholic institutions come out rather well.

The health analyst Kenneth White, of Virginia Commonwealth University, found Catholic hospitals in the US to be on average more efficient than equivalent secular hospitals. This was a particularly remarkable finding given that he also discovered evidence that Catholic hospitals, reflecting their mission to reach out to disadvantaged communities, were providing more compassionate care and stigmatised services (to groups that often face discrimination) than other providers.

In Africa, a recent research review found not only that maternal care at Church-run mission hospitals was of the same or better quality than at public facilities, but that Church hospitals were also more likely to offer services accessible to the poor.

Looking at education, although it is well established that Catholic schools perform exceptionally well on standard academic criteria …"
read full article



QNLF3129.jpg

https://www.johnbradburne.com/leprosy/
 
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Here's the stumbling block, always ... at one point there is progressive revelation, but then later revelation refutes the earlier, and in fact declares the earlier a heresy.

Thank you Thomas, but I see that there is no religious scripture given by God, that refutes a previous scripture.

There are scriptures that people have misinterpreted, and thus hold to their interpretations and may see a refutation.

Regards Tony
 
@Tone Bristow-Stagg
If this brief dismissal of the entire Baha'i 'religion' seems simplistic and shallow, it's no worse than your dismissal of Christianity, imo

Thank you RJM. I embrace Jesus Christ and the Bible with all my heart and soul and will give my life for Christ.

I do not dismiss, but embrace what is of God.

Of course, you get to see it how you choose to.

All the best and regards Tony
 
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While I have massive reservations about the political and social system outlined in the Baha'i writings, and you pose a valid question, I also think it's a bit one-dimensional to reduce any religion or world-view to the politics. Not that I haven't done that myself, many times, even on this forum ;)

I guess the challenge of a Baha'i world view with its emphasis on Unity would be to reconcile the ideal of Unity with the ideal of honoring preceding revelations and their faiths, which by their very nature resist unification. So how do you approach that challenge in your personal practice, @Tone Bristow-Stagg ? And, even if you have a lovely passage of Baha'i scripture ready to answer my question, I'd actually appreciate reading your own thoughts and words even more.

We live the teachings of Baha’u’llah in our community and offer service when we can Cino.

Thus when I attend church and pray with Christians, we share fellowship with our One God. The pastor also came to one of our Holy Days.

So the answer is that we all practice Faith as it should be practiced. These discussions do not have to change our fellowship as one human race working towards the good of all humanity.

The issue is, many will not look at the past to understand what lessons they taught us, so that neglect, then reflects what choices we are making in this age.

Many love and cherish the sacrifice of Jesus. But what about the Bab? The same sacrifice was made, for the same reason. Yet the same mistake made by the Jews is now reflected by Christianity. I do not say that to be harsh, but only out of Love.

Regards Tony
 
A one world government theocracy based on unquestioned adherence to the writings of a 19th century self-proclaimed messiah that over-rules all other previous religious beliefs, and regulated by an inner-circle council of elders -- what could possibly go wrong?

I see the world shows us what went wrong. What you have offered in that comment, is what is wrong with the world. It is fulfilling prophecy.

This is all unfolding as foretold in the Baha'i Writings RJM. I wish I could give you my heart, my eyes my ears, but I cannot.

We are One human race under One God, it is our perception of Faith that is the only division.

Regards Tony
 
Yet the same mistake made by the Jews is now reflected by Christianity. I do not say that to be harsh, but only out of Love.
But how do you know the Jews made a mistake in not becoming Christians? How do you know Christians made a mistake in not becoming Muslims? These are very sweeping statements. They are the beliefs of your own Baha'i faith, spoken by your own Baha'i prophet, whom you believe to be the newest prophet, and the last one for another millenium. Certainly not everyone else agrees with your beliefs.
 
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