What is the Baha'i message in simple words?

['Amir Alzzalam]

I know Abdul'baha is very loving, honest, kind, compassionate and extremley wise.

So anything posted to cloud those facts, is most likely misquoted, quoted out of context, or incorrectly translated with an agenda in mind, and not offered in the light, or with the intent Abdul'baha was offering.

Regards Tony

How do you know that, were you around from 1892 to 1921?

By way of comparison, "pilgrims' notes" are items or sayings that are attributed to the central figures but have not been authenticated. While these may be inspirational, they are not considered authoritative. Some of ʻAbdu'l-Bahá's collected talks (e.g. ʻAbdu'l-Bahá in London, Paris Talks, and The Promulgation of Universal Peace.) may fall into this category, but are awaiting further authentication. The Star of the West, published in the United States from 1910 to 1924, contains many pilgrim's notes and unauthenticated letters of ʻAbdu'l-Bahá . . .

The Baháʼí community seeks to expand the body of authenticated and translated texts. The 1992 publication of the English translation of Baháʼu'lláh's The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, and the more recent Gems of Divine Mysteries (2002), The Summons of the Lord of Hosts (2002), and The Tabernacle of Unity (2006) are significant additions to the body of work available.

At the same time there is concerted effort to re-translate, edit, and even redact works that are not authenticated.

This seems to be the same apologetic revisionism that Islam and Christianity have attempted. Too many verses in their 'outdated' religious philosophy have been scrutinized for their callousness, racism, hatred, violence, and bigotry, and now we have "what they really meant to say" amendments.

 

[Ahanu]

I've studied pre-Islamic Arabia for years and although far from perfect, the 'pseudo'Jahiliyya were nothing like they are portrayed in Islamic text.

Any good articles you can share about this? Thanks.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Did you mean . . . "They had a Message God "ALLEGEDLY" gave them to deliver. So I guess, that it is up to us to decide why we should or should not look at them."

No I meant as I offered. I am a black and white type of fellow.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

How do you know that, were you around from 1892 to 1921?

Luckily we have thousands of eyewitness reports and press releases. Luckily I am of an age that I have heard from those that met Abdul'baha in person.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

This seems to be the same apologetic revisionism that Islam and Christianity have attempted. Too many verses in their 'outdated' religious philosophy have been scrutinized for their callousness, racism, hatred, violence, and bigotry, and now we have "what they really meant to say" amendments.

Or, maybe there is a genuine effort to get it right for all future generations.

Regards Tony

 

[RJM]

Also if I posted some of the recorded events, what would that achieve?

It would make you appear a little less evasive and give a little weight to your earlier declarations (about a figure claiming to be the second coming of Christ). I'm sorry these questions are being regarded by some as harassment. I will stop asking now

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes

What kind of sickness, Tony?

That prayer is for all of us to offer, God is the forgiver of Sins and we pray through the Manifestations of God to.ask for that forgiveness, as it is they they give their lives so we may be free of sin, free of our animal selves and to be born again into the Spirit. Which is the Messengers.

When even the existence of God is not established, why should anyone pray through any so-self-claimed messenger / manifestation of Allah who provides no evidence of his station (except his reported vision of a 'heavenly maiden'). Funny.

God is unknowable, all doors are shut to that Most Great Spirit.

Why should we take the words of an uneducated 19th Century Iranian or yours as God's own truth? Funny again. Provide some evidence.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

It would make you appear a little less evasive and give a little weight to your earlier declarations ( about a figure claiming to be the second coming of Christ). I'm sorry these questions are being regarded by some as harassment. I will stop asking now

Now you are aware that miracles are not proof of a Messenger, and that a Baha'i should not use them as a proof, then maybe you can see it was not evasive tactics.

I personally see great wisdom in that teaching.

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

When even the existence of God is not established,

Maybe for some that is so, that is not the case for me.

Regards Tony

 

[Ahanu]

At the same time there is concerted effort to re-translate, edit, and even redact works that are not authenticated.

So what should be done in your ideal world, @Amir Alzzalam? Not translate again? Not attempt to authenticate a text? Translation is always an ongoing process. Even works as old as the Odyssey, for example, continue to have new translations.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Acceptance of Bahá’u’lláh requires acceptance of all the Messengers. To reject one is to reject them all, including Baha'u'llah.
How else can the Oneness of God become a reality?
How can we become one human race, if we do not embrace the diversity of races as part of the whole human race.
How can we become united if one human wants to control the mind of many humans?
We have to be free to make our own choices, as to be enabled to embrace our oneness, which in turn brings about a unity in our diversity.
If the religious priests in each age had not rejected the Messenger, the the masses would have followed the One sent by God. In Persia hundreds of thousands had embraced the Bab in a very short time, then those that want to hold power over men's minds get offended, the rest is the history of Faith.

Line-by-line reply:
I have not being given any reason to accept any of the so-called messengers or their YHWH / God / Allah. So, I reject them all.

Do you have any proof for God or his oneness? Otherwise what you say is no more than trash.

Race is basically a problem of whites. We do not have the race problem in India. India has people from Arabian, Central Asian, African and Tibeto-Bermese stock apart from the original Afro-Australian stock.

That is what your uneducated 19th Century Iranian wanted that all people must accept him as the current messenger / manifestation of Allah.

Neither the Chrsitians nor the Muslims are one in spite of putting faith in one God. The really free are in India. One can believe in one God or many, it does not matter.

Why should people accept a claim by anyone to be the messenger of an entity when there is no evidence for the existence of that entity itself, leaving aside the unproved claim of the pretender.

 

[RJM]

Now you are aware that miracles are not proof of a Messenger, and that a Baha'i should not use them as a proof, then maybe you can see it was not evasive tactics.

I personally see great wisdom in that teaching.

Regards Tony

I asked you if Baha'u'llah healed the sick who came to him, as (gospel) Jesus did. You answered yes. I asked you for examples. You failed to provide them.

Just leave it

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. in a Prayer this was offered,
"...Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turns away from this Beauty hath also turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity...."

Self praise, narcissism. A head bloated with ego.
Even in a prayer, nothing but self, pretension. How deplorable!

We can choose to get a better idea by embracing the Messages of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, which guide us unto all truth.

But their message as well as of others has been corrupted by their folowers in later times. That is why Allah sent Bahaollah and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Messengers and their corrupt messages!

What one needs to do is not quote from anti Baha'i websites, ..
Also translation is a tricky business, when translating for Persian or Arabic into English.

One also not depend on just Bahai sites.
Translation is not a tricky business unless the translators involve tricks.
That is what Abdul Baha did when Bahaollah had never mentioned Buddha.

Maybe for some that is so, that is not the case for me.

Then present your evidence.

 

[Aupmanyav]

By the way, if you would like to know what Abdu'l-Baha is talking about here in context, you should read this. The idea Abdu'l-Baha is being racist - which is what your source wants to argue - is nonsense. Let me know what you think. It is so obviously wrong that one must seriously consider if we should even seriously consider the rest of your source. lol

lol. I have read both. And I am wonder-struck. How does the first translation differ so much from the second translation? It is a completely new statement. How did the first translation got it so wrong? Who was the the first translator? After all that appeared in Bahai-library site.

 

[Cino]

Mod Hat on:

Please, everybody let's not lose sight of our ideals of discussing our different and often fundamentally incompatible world-views without resorting to offensive language. Disparaging another person's faith or holy figures is obviously not the way. Telling the other person they misunderstood their own faith is also obviously not the way.

Thank you all for your attention.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There will be no list from me. Miracles are not proof of a Messenger. I have enough flaws in sharing this Message, the least I can do is not break this advice.

I asked for what kind of sickness did Bahaollah treat. You claim that Bahaollah miraculously treated sick, and that there were many such cases. Though you know of many such cases but are not ready to provide such a list. Don't give us a list. Just give us one instance. I suppose Bahaollah like Mohammad did not offer any miracles as his proof. And you yourself say that miracles are not a proof for a messenger. You should not have made such a claim in the first instance.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Now you are aware that miracles are not proof of a Messenger, and that a Baha'i should not use them as a proof, then maybe you can see it was not evasive tactics.

But still you said that Bahaollah cured the sick. I asked you what kind of sickness did he treat. Of course, if my wife has fever, I would put cold sheets on her forehead. Do you mean Bahaollah also treated his people in this way if they were not well, and you do not mean a 'miraclulous', 'divine' treatment. You need to repent of transgressing if you meant 'miraculous', 'divine' treatment. Jesus is reported to have treated people 'miraculously', in the 'divine' way; the lame walked, the leper cured, the blind saw and the dead rose up.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Race is basically a problem of whites. We do not have the race problem in India. India has people from Arabian, Central Asian, African and Tibeto-Bermese stock apart from the original Afro-Australian stock

Such is the world that does indeed need change Aupmanyav.

How are the issues with a caste system being addressed?

Regards Tony

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

I asked for what kind of sickness did Bahaollah treat. You claim that Bahaollah miraculously treated sick, and that there were many such cases. Though you know of many such cases but are not ready to provide such a list. Don't give us a list. Just give us one instance. I suppose Bahaollah like Mohammad did not offer any miracles as his proof. And you yourself say that miracles are not a proof for a messenger. You should not have made such a claim in the first instance.

I said I will not be responding to any of these requests.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

How are the issues with a caste system being addressed?

They are being addressed forcefully. Half the members of all legislating authorities and ministries at the Center, state, or at local level by Constitutional dictate belong to other Backward Classes, Scheduled Castes and Scheduled tribes. The President of India belongs to Scheduled tribes (the former one belonged to Scheduled castes). Many Chief Ministers of states also are from these sections of the society - Punjab, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Jharkhand, Bihar, Tamilnadu, etc. We have the strongest 'Affirmative program' in the world since our independence. We have strong laws to deter caste discrimination (detailed here):
https://historum.com/t/why-there-were-no-caste-revolts-in-india.193448/page-7#post-3613721