Do we need salvation?

Absolutely no need in what I believe - Sankara's Advaita (non-dual) Hinduism.
All things in the universe are none other than Brahman.
That does not need any salvation, since there is no other to salvage it.

Sankara's six verses to 'Nirvana' (AtmaShaTkam , nirvANaShaTkam):

"sadA me samatvam, na multih, na bandhah" (I am always the same, neither salvation, nor bonds)
 
Sankara's six verses to 'Nirvana' (AtmaShaTkam , nirvANaShaTkam, Atma Shatkam - Wikipedia):

"aham nirvikalpo nirākāra rupo, vibhuh vyāpya sarvatra sarvendriyanām;
sadā me samatvam, na muktih, na bandhah, chidānadarupah Shivo'ham Shivo'ham." - 6
(I am formless, option-less Lord enveloping all everywhere who have senses;
I am changeless, no salvation or fetters for me, I am the embodiment of knowledge and bliss, I am Shiva, I am Shiva)
 
Ephesians 2:8-9
Berean Standard Bible
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Titus 2:11
Berean Standard Bible
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to everyone.

Romans 5:1-2
New International Version
Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

2 Corinthians 12:9
New King James Version
And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Titus 3:5
American Standard Version
not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Romans 11:6
Lamsa Bible
And if by grace, then it is not by works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if by works, then it is not by grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Could it be that in the first-place we are saved through grace, it is a free gift, but God and Jesus still want us to follow the instructions in all the other scriptures too? Otherwise why would they be written in the Bible?

Consider first: Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God, Berean Standard Bible

Another scripture says believes, another says: Eternal life that they may know you, Another says: repent and be baptized, another: eternal salvation for all those who obey Him, another: but the one having endured to the end, he will be saved.

Use any Bible translation you like.

Believe
John 3:16
New King James Version
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 10:27-28
Colossians 1:22-23a
Acts 16:30, 31
1 John 2:2

Knowledge or Know
John 17:3
Berean Literal Bible
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
1 John 5:20
2 Timothy 3:15
1 Timothy 2:3, 4.
Psalm 79:6

Repent
Acts 2:38
Christian Standard Bible
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 3:19
Acts 26:20.
Matthew 3:2
Matthew 4:17

Get baptized
1 Peter 3:21
New International Version
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Matthew 28:19
Acts 2: 38, 40, 41
Acts 2:38-41
Acts 8:36-38
Mark 16:16
Acts 10:47-48

Obey Jesus and God's instructions in the Bible
Hebrews 5:9
New American Standard Bible
And having been perfected, He became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him,
Matthew 28:20
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
John 3:36
John 14:15
Luke 8:21
Matthew 7:24
Romans 2:8
Acts 5:29
1 John 5:3
Matthew 19:17
James 1:22
Matthew 7:21

Endure to the end
Mark 13:13
Berean Literal Bible
And you will be hated by all on account of My name; but the one having endured to the end, he will be saved.
Hebrews 10:36
1 Corinthians 9:27
James 5:11
Romans 8:13
James 1:2-4
 
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walter said:
Could it be that in the first-place we are saved through grace, it is a free gift, but God and Jesus still want us to follow the instructions in all the other scriptures too? Otherwise why would they be written in the Bible?
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Part of what I think salvation might mean in the Bible is that God fills a person with a desire to serve and obey Him and to learn to live the way He says to live. That would include immersing ourselves in the life and teachings of His Son, with conscious efforts to understand and practice His teachings better and better.
 
Longfellow said:
Part of what I think salvation might mean in the Bible is that God fills a person with a desire to serve and obey Him and to learn to live the way He says to live. That would include immersing ourselves in the life and teachings of His Son, with conscious efforts to understand and practice His teachings better and better.
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That can be done without submission to any imaginary God and his so-called son, prophets, messengers, manifestations or mahdis.
They only bring in conflicts, superstitions and falsehoods (soul, heaven, hell, end of days, judgment, salvation, Satan, Angels, etc.).
 
Aupmanyav said:
That can be done without submission to any imaginary God and his so-called son, prophets, messengers, manifestations or mahdis.
They only bring in conflicts, superstitions and falsehoods (soul, heaven, hell, end of days, judgment, salvation, Satan, Angels, etc.).
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:p I see some asymmetry here. You freely use ancient stories about gods and their families from Hinduism to illustrate your ideas, but then then you pester me about doing the same with gods and their families from some other ancient stories. And don’t try to pretend that those stories you use have never brought in conflicts, superstitions and falsehoods.
 
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Something I picked up on ...

When we read the word 'obey' we understand in contemporary culture we think of it as 'doing what you're told' or following orders.

The Hebrew term is שְׁמַע – shama, from the root verb 'to hear', and the primary reading is more akin to hear, or to harken, than to obey. Clearly the idea is to hear and obey, but then the obedience to to what is heard and understood and reasoned in oneself. It's not sim[ply blind obedience – a check on Strong's Hebrew Concordance offers a much wider interpretation – and in the Hebrew Scriptures the word is translated as 'hear' much more often than 'obey'.

In the Greek NT, ὑπακούω hypakouō also has ακούω akouó, 'to hear', as its semantic root.
 
Longfellow said:
:p I see some asymmetry here. You freely use ancient stories about gods and their families from Hinduism to illustrate your ideas, but then then you pester me about doing the same with gods and their families from some other ancient stories. And don’t try to pretend that those stories you use have never brought in conflicts, superstitions and falsehoods.
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:) I use them without any belief in them, other than as secular advice. I also use Biblical and Quranic stories in which I do not believe. I warn my Hindu co-religionists against them. Do so with my wife too. She would just switch on religious, devotional songs, astrology and feng shui programs on TV. I leave her if she does not switch to news or other programs. Love the street food videos which she hates.
 
Thomas said:
It's not sim[ply blind obedience
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Luke 8:21
New International Version
He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”

obey it, put into practice, do it, carry it out, doing, do, heed it, act on it, these are different ways it is translated in English Bible's on the site biblehub.com

Many words have several different meanings, personally I choose the one that agrees with the context in other scriptures, which would be obey or similar.

Matthew 7:24-27
English Standard Version
24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

James 1:25
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
But everyone who gazes into The Perfect Law of Liberty and continues in it, he is not a hearer who heard what is forgotten, but is a doer of the works, and this one shall be blessed in his work.
 
Thomas said:
Something I picked up on ...

When we read the word 'obey' we understand in contemporary culture we think of it as 'doing what you're told' or following orders.

The Hebrew term is שְׁמַע – shama, from the root verb 'to hear', and the primary reading is more akin to hear, or to harken, than to obey. Clearly the idea is to hear and obey, but then the obedience to to what is heard and understood and reasoned in oneself. It's not sim[ply blind obedience – a check on Strong's Hebrew Concordance offers a much wider interpretation – and in the Hebrew Scriptures the word is translated as 'hear' much more often than 'obey'.

In the Greek NT, ὑπακούω hypakouō also has ακούω akouó, 'to hear', as its semantic root.
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Im curious.. i know Deuteronomy 6:4-5 is called The Shema.. is Shema and shama the same? @RabbiO can you help me?
 
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Hi @walter –

I don't disagree, I'm just trying to point to a deeper understanding of the meaning of the Greek, as opposed to how we currently understand English words.

That last James citation is on point:
"Know this, my beloved brothers: let every man be swift to listen (ἀκούω akoúō), slow to speak, slow to indignation; for a human being’s indignation does not accomplish God’s justice. Hence, putting away every defilement and surfeit of evil, receive (δέχομαι déchomai) in gentleness the implanted (ἔμφυτος émphytos) word, which can save your souls. And become doers (ποιητής poiētḗs), of the word, and not only hearers, thus deluding yourselves. Because, if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing the face he was born with in a mirror; because he has observed himself and gone away, and has immediately forgotten what he was like." (James 1:19-24. Hart translation)

There is a priority here – the first step is to listen – the verb ἀκούω akoúō, means 'to hear' and 'to understand'. Then "receive", then become "doers".

So having heard the word, the hearer is called to 'put away evil', so that the Spirit might indwell the soul, and the hearer becomes a doer.

The Greek word translated as 'doer' is the Greek ποιητής poiētḗs, literally translates as 'a maker, producer, author, and poet' and has a much richer provenance than simply 'doer' – it also encompasses actor and performer.
(That's how classical writers such as Herodotus, Aristophanes, Xenophon, Plato, Plutarch, Paul and James understood the word, and that's how readers would have read it.)

"For the one who has gazed intently into the perfect law, which is one of freedom, and has stayed there next to it, becoming not a forgetful listener but instead a doer of work—this one will be blissful in what he does." (James 1:25)
The analogy switches from 'hearing' to 'seeing' – that is, having heard, now understands – sees in the work not an obedience, but a freedom.

"Pure and undefiled religion before the God and Father is this: to watch over orphans and widows in their affliction, to keep oneself unstained by the cosmos." (James 1:27)
 
Thomas said:
I don't disagree, I'm just trying to point to a deeper understanding of the meaning of the Greek, as opposed to how we currently understand English words.
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I feel it is a choice to agree with the context of many other scriptures:


Hebrews 5:9
New American Standard Bible
And having been perfected, He became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him,
Matthew 28:20
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
John 3:36
John 14:15
Luke 8:21
Matthew 7:24
Romans 2:8
Acts 5:29
1 John 5:3
Matthew 19:17
James 1:22
Matthew 7:21

I also like to take the words that affords me the most responsibility, so when I am judged I'm trying my best, loving the Lord God with all my heart, with all my soul and with all my strength. The first commandment of the New Testament.

We can always choose a less responsible word because so many words have so many definitions.
 
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Faithfulservant said:
Im curious.. i know Deuteronomy 6:4-5 is called The Shema.. is Shema and shama the same? @RabbiO can you help me?
Click to expand...
From the same root.

Strong's Concordance for H8086:
shema: heard, hear, hears
Original Word: שְׁמַע / Verb / Transliteration: shma` / Pronunciation: sheh-MAH / hear, obey
Word Origin: [(Aramaic) corresponding to H8085

Strong's Concordance for H8086:
shama: heard, hear, listen
Original Word: שָׁמַע / Verb feminine; verb masculine / Transliteration: shama` / Pronunciation: shah-MAH /
KJV: hear/listen attentively, call (gather) together ...
NASB: heard, hear, listen, listened, hears, obey, obeyed

Word Origin: [a primitive root]
1. to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc
2. causatively, to tell, etc.)
 
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