Satan accuses us before God

Quahom1

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Yes Jesus was able to step forward because Satan did not have any claim on him


Yes after being rejected by the ones God had prepared to receive him, he had to go the way of the cross. Satan took his physical body but Jesus was totally victorious spiritually and brought spiritual salvation to all mankind. By believing in him and following him we can inherit his victory.

The Messiah has to come a 3rd time to bring physical salvation and remove the original sin that every human is still born with form generation to generation
This is where we differ. The Messiah has come in physical form only once. He will physically come to the whole of the world one more time.

Second, Satan never took Jesus' body. Satan did nothing to Jesus Physically, at all. Man did not kill Jesus, nor did Man forceably put Jesus on the cross. Jesus put himself on the cross, and then he "gave" his life for us...no one took it from him. (We can't take anything from God, nor can we force God to do anything). He decided what he wanted to do, and we simply went along for the ride.

When Jesus said "forgive them Father for they know not what they do", he was spot on. And it wasn't the physical things man does Jesus was talking about, it was what was in man's heart and mind...we don't know what the hell we are doing. We have no idea of the ramifications our thoughts create let alone our goofy ass actions.

One of the worst of the follies of man is thinking he is in control...

Like the body's functions, man at best has semi-control over otherwise autonomous, God driven designs.
 

Summia Rahmaan

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Man did not kill Jesus, nor did Man forceably put Jesus on the cross. Jesus put himself on the cross, and then he "gave" his life for us...no one took it from him.
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Sin comes form Satans wrong feed in minds about Truth, and Jesus himself never offered to sacrifice, here!

Mathew 9: 12-13

9:13But you go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

It was man who forcefully put Jesus at the cross to find fantasy story for getting rid of sins.
 

Quahom1

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Sin comes form Satans wrong feed in minds about Truth, and Jesus himself never offered to sacrifice, here!

Mathew 9: 12-13



It was man who forcefully put Jesus at the cross to find fantasy story for getting rid of sins.
But Jesus did my friend. He specifically prayed in the garden before he was arressted. And his prayer was a simple one "Take this cup from me if possible, but if not, then not my will, but thy will be done".

God's will was done, no man can counter God's will and live to tell about it.

And by the way...welcome to IO Summia.
 

Marsh

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To live successfully apart from God ? I have never ever said that. I believe the opposite.


Jesus is a saviour. I have never said otherwise.


Here again you are mis-quoting what I wrote.


Your are not interested to understand what I shared and you are twisiting it


The Holy spirit is understood by mots people to be a comforting and feminine spirit. The Messiah has come and is returning. Nothing new here.
Concerning Zacharias, if you were open enough to study the issue, you may be surprised.


It is very much OK to says that you disagree with someone else opinion, understanding or beliefs. It is something else to twist their words and it is not wise to just tell someone that they beliefs are false and that you only know the truth. Humility is always the better way to communicate. It does not mean that you are confident in your own faith


I'm not twisting anything, dear, and it's not my fault if the truth stings. Of course the easy answer is to just throw up your hands and say that I've twisted your words, but what words did I twist, exactly? Do you not in fact believe that Jesus is not the son of God, but rather the son of Zacharias? That the Holy Spirit is feminine, even though it is the spirit of God the father? That we are half way between God and Satan? That though Jesus died for our sins, we still carry the burden of original sin and are in a fallen state? That Jesus is a saviour, rather than the saviour? That we are righteous when we do good things? And in that righteousness, that we don't need a saviour anymore?

I agree that I am being harsh, but strongly disagree that I have misrepresented your views.
 

Marsh

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To live successfully apart from God ? I have never ever said that. I believe the opposite.


Jesus is a saviour. I have never said otherwise.


Here again you are mis-quoting what I wrote.


Your are not interested to understand what I shared and you are twisiting it


The Holy spirit is understood by mots people to be a comforting and feminine spirit. The Messiah has come and is returning. Nothing new here.
Concerning Zacharias, if you were open enough to study the issue, you may be surprised.


It is very much OK to says that you disagree with someone else opinion, understanding or beliefs. It is something else to twist their words and it is not wise to just tell someone that they beliefs are false and that you only know the truth. Humility is always the better way to communicate. It does not mean that you are confident in your own faith


I'm not twisting anything, dear, and it's not my fault if the truth stings. Of course the easy answer is to just throw up your hands and say that I've twisted your words, but what words did I twist, exactly? Do you not in fact believe that Jesus is not the son of God, but rather the son of Zacharias? That the Holy Spirit is feminine, even though it is the spirit of God the father? That we are half way between God and Satan? That though Jesus died for our sins, we still carry the burden of original sin and are in a fallen state? That Jesus is a saviour, rather than the saviour? That we are righteous when we do good things? And in that righteousness, that we don't need a saviour anymore? That "This war is not God's fault and it is for man to restore it"?

I agree that I am being harsh, but strongly disagree that I have misrepresented your views. Don't act like I haven't been listening to you, Soleil; it's because I've been listenening that I have replied.
 

soleil10

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I'm not twisting anything, dear, and it's not my fault if the truth stings. Of course the easy answer is to just throw up your hands and say that I've twisted your words, but what words did I twist, exactly? Do you not in fact believe that Jesus is not the son of God, but rather the son of Zacharias?

Jesus is the son of God but many facts point out that God used Zacharias' seed. Jesus and John the Baptist were half brothers.
Similarly to Cain (the older) and Abel (the younger) John the Baptist should have followed Jesus and become his #1 disciple. He recevied a vision of whom Jesus was as his mother Elisabeth did. John the Baptist who was respected continued on his own and made it very difficult for Jesus to be received.

That the Holy Spirit is feminine, even though it is the spirit of God the father?
This is quite a common understanding. Just google "the holy spirit is a feminine and comforting spirit". It is common knowledge

That we are half way between God and Satan?
After the human fall we are in a midway position between God and Satan as St Paul clearly explained in Roman 7:18-19 " For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing." Fallen men commit to do God' will but do Satan's will. We are in the middle.

That though Jesus died for our sins, we still carry the burden of original sin and are in a fallen state?
Do you know someone today who is born without the original sin ?

That Jesus is a saviour, rather than the saviour?
Jesus came as THE saviour and second Adam. No dispute there

That we are righteous when we do good things? And in that righteousness, that we don't need a saviour anymore?
When we do good godly actions we come closer to God. When we do bad, evil actions we become further away from God. Until the Kingdom of God is establish on earth, we need a savior.

That "This war is not God's fault and it is for man to restore it"?
To say that this war is God's fault is a deep and profound insult to God. God is working without stopping to bring his children back to Him. He is asking us to do our part. Jesus also asks us to have faith in him and follow him.

I agree that I am being harsh, but strongly disagree that I have misrepresented your views. Don't act like I haven't been listening to you, Soleil; it's because I've been listenening that I have replied.
I appreciate you responding to me. Beside the point about Zacharias which is little known and out of the box for many, the rest of what I wrote is pretty scruptural and clearly explained in the bible
 

Marsh

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Do you know someone today who is born without the original sin ?

When we do good godly actions we come closer to God. When we do bad, evil actions we become further away from God. Until the Kingdom of God is establish on earth, we need a savior.


To say that this war is God's fault is a deep and profound insult to God.


I don't know anyone who was born without original sin. I also don't know any Christian who still carries its burden. The one who believes that Jesus is the messiah can rest easy knowing that their sins are forgiven when they ask for forgiveness-- all of them. This idea that we are brought near to God is a destructive mistruth, because God's grace is given, not earned. If you are trying to earn God's forgiveness, you'll need to work for eternity because you will find that nothing you will ever do-- no matter how good-- can erase a sin. Only forgiveness can do that.

There is no war; it's over. We won. Accept the victory for what it is.

Marsh
 

soleil10

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I don't know anyone who was born without original sin. I also don't know any Christian who still carries its burden.
Ok, you agree that our children are born with the original sin. It is a burden we live to them, generation after generation through our blood lineage. It is not erase once and for all through Jesus resurrection. Our children are still born with it[/quote]

The one who believes that Jesus is the messiah can rest easy knowing that their sins are forgiven when they ask for forgiveness-- all of them. This idea that we are brought near to God is a destructive mistruth, because God's grace is given, not earned. If you are trying to earn God's forgiveness, you'll need to work for eternity because you will find that nothing you will ever do-- no matter how good-- can erase a sin. Only forgiveness can do that.
I agree that we are saved only by God's Grace. We still need to make a condition of faith in him and to follow him. I like to say God's does 95%, we do 5%. But that 5% requires our 100%.

There is no war; it's over. We won. Accept the victory for what it is. Marsh
If there is still no war between good and evil, just look around you and inside of you.
 

17th Angel

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There is no war; it's over. We won. Accept the victory for what it is.

I just, love it, when people use the term "we" in such a loose way..... Marsh what was this war? And how were you apart of it, and what role did you play in the "victory" of this war?

*glances up at your details*

Location: right -behind- you.

Yeah...... You're one of "them".

;)
 

soleil10

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Marsh, I just thought about these words from St Paul about the war within us between our body and our spirit. (sorry, I could not make the font smaller).

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.
For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law that work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
What a wretched man I am!
Who will rescue me from this body of death?
 

Marsh

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I just, love it, when people use the term "we" in such a loose way..... Marsh what was this war? And how were you apart of it, and what role did you play in the "victory" of this war?

*glances up at your details*

Location: right -behind- you.

Yeah...... You're one of "them".

;)


Well, I was sorta just speaking to Soleil on that one, Alex. By we, I meant Christians, and despite our differences I do consider Soleil to be a Christian. The war I was speaking about was figurative; it is the conflict between good and evil-- good as exemplified by God, and evil as personified by Satan. I had no part in winning the victory, per se, aside from simply putting my faith into Jesus Christ as my saviour. For me, then, the war is over; I know that I am forgiven when I ask for forgiveness, and Satan has no authority over my life anymore. Jesus won it, but that's something that needs to be taken on faith.

By the tone of your reply, I think you were assuming that I'm putting myself in a class above other people. I wasn't; I was doing the opposite, Alex. Whereas others see themselves as being significant players in spiritual events, I see myself as very small-- weak, vulnerable, in need of a saviour. Soleil believes that we're the main players in the fight between good and evil; I disagree.

By we, I didn't mean you if that's what you took offense to, Alex; I wouldn't be so presumptious. Just be aware that there are a lot of Christians on this forum, and we sometimes speak in general terms.
 
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