Dialogue, you are comparing apple and oranges. When A&E lived sin had not existed on the earth yet. Also we need to consider how serius that sin was. It was so tempting that they were willing to risk their life for it. What sin can be passed on from generation to generation ? It was not eating an apple.
Since Adam and Eve sinned, then there was a readiness in both of them to sin. Accordingly, we can deduce that man is created weak and sinful from the very beginning.
All your examples have to do with already fallen human beings which we know have two masters and are not so reliable.
Actually, there are no fallen human beings and unfallen ones. We are all created to be on earth. We are all created weak and sinful from Adam untill now so that we seek perfection in our relation with God. The right meaning of being fallen is to turn away from God's teachings and disobey Him. Spiritual fall...
God does not interfer with our portion of responsibility.
Right, Soleil10. I agree with you. God has given a space for choice/responsibilty as you said.
Yet, God always interfer. Someone wants to hurt you for example. God has given him the choice to do that. Yet, it is up to God if that hurt may touch you or not. If It touched you. It is God who wills, and there is a wisdom behind. If not, then it is God who wills it, and there is a wisdom behind.
It is our short reasoning that unables us to see God's intervention. Do you rememeber the story I told you. It is God who intervined and let the bullet be in the shop owner's heart. Many things happens daily with us, and we assume it is by chance and coincidence. There is no chance and coincidence. Everything is done according to God's will, everything.
God did not intervine during the fall.
Simply because it was what He wanted. He created man to be on earth, not to stay in heaven. All the life of Adam and Eve in the garden was only a training period for the humanity task on earth..
This is such a twisted explanation. I am sorry. No parent want his children to be weak so they fail and seek refuge and develop a relationship. Parents want their children to be even better than them. Of course we all go through a growing period when our body and our spirit go from childhood to maturity.
You said it, Soleil10: We all go through a growing period..from maturity to childhood. Now, can you answer me please: How can you move by your child safe to maturity if he doesnt depend on you and asks for your help?! Would you oblige him to listen to you?! Would you force him to do what you want?! From here, we find that the wisdom behind creating man spiritually weak is for the benefit of that human being in order to turn to God, asks His help and establish a love relation with Him.
Of course, God doesnt want at all that His creatures be weak. That's why, He asks them to be very strong in the face of all the temptations. Yet, this weakness is very necessary for a human being to feel his/her need of God, and hence be connected to Him.
I hope it is clear now, Soleil10.
If Adam and Eve had not fell, there would have be no need for a Messiah or even religion.
It is God's plan from the very beginnig, Soleil, to create man to be on earth and to send down Holy Books, and send prophets and messangers..
God's plan is one and the same from the very start untill now. His will is always done, and it cant never be undone.
What you are saying is so cruel. It is even hard to believe you could even say it. God has all the power, all the knowledge and all the money he wants but He created for love. God needs love to be returned to him.His heart is broken seeing his children suffer. Go tell someone in a concentration camp or a dying child in Africa that their suffering is God's plan.
That is a sick and monstruous thing to say.
Well, Soleil, I know that what I am saying may seem cruel and harsh. But, let me tell you, brother, that our knowledge is relative...yes, very very relative. We cant hold that we have the whole knowledge. The shop owner who was killed took the sympathy of all those who were present at the time of the accident, but when we came to know the reality, we knew that he himself was very cruel and unjust.
The problem, brother, is that we know just one chapter of the whole story. We dont know everything, hence our judgements are relative.
It seems that Azure, Winner and you are sharing the same kind of belief. Am I correct ?
If you mean the belief in God's will, then yes, I think so...