Can we bargain with God ?

Marsh said:
I think at every level the idea of bargaining with God reflects a lack of faith.....
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The idea of buying G-d off was evident in OT sacrificial rites. Even though it was said "your sacrifices are stench," the idea it persisted into the New Testament. It appears the atonement itself was a bargaining method - with sinners apparently getting the best deal of all.
 
Dialogue, I understand your story. Yes based on our many previous actions, God can figure what we will probably do and a lot of suffering in the world is consequence of humanity previous deeds (cause and effect). I also believe that God will use offered suffering for goodness. Very often the people closest to God suffer the most. I just reject the thought that God program suffering into His plan from the beginning,
 
soleil10 said:
Dialogue, I understand your story. Yes based on our many previous actions, God can figure what we will probably do and a lot of suffering in the world is consequence of humanity previous deeds (cause and effect). I also believe that God will use offered suffering for goodness. Very often the people closest to God suffer the most. I just reject the thought that God program suffering into His plan from the beginning,
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So, do you think that God changes His plans?!
 
dailogue is the best said:
So, do you think that God changes His plans?!
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Alex P said:
His attitude certainly changes..... OT He kills millions..... NT he is aww loving god :)
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I think we changed our perspective. Why did you slaughter all those people. G!d told me to. Why did you kill the women and children G!d told me to. What caused the drought El Nino? no Twas the wrath of G!d, same for floods, locusts, red tides whatever...

Of course our perspective isn't completely changed...plenty out there with signs when New Orleans went under that G!d was after them because of their sin and deprivation...but low and behold he saved the French Quarter?? So much for that logic, the red light district survived.

Spirit doesn't waiver, man's perspective does.
 
Alex P said:
His attitude certainly changes..... OT He kills millions..... NT he is aww loving god :)
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Then, if we assume that God changes his plan, we simply admit that he is not a god.

God is All Wise, All Strong and All Omniscient that He knows exactly what He is doing, and that there wasnt/isnt/wont be a single mistake in His plan. He is All Just and Perfect.
 
dailogue is the best said:
Then, if we assume that God changes his plan, we simply admit that he is not a god.
God is All Wise, All Strong and All Omniscient that He knows exactly what He is doing, and that there wasnt/isnt/wont be a single mistake in His plan. He is All Just and Perfect.
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Dialogue, God does not change his purpose. We are the one delaying His providence for our own salvation. It took 4000 biblical years until God was able to send a Messiah, then we killed him.

The course of the cross was not Plan A but Plan B. Just imagine if Jesus could have lived and start the first sinless family on earth.

God does not change His purpose. We are the ones who are making it difficult and prolong its success through our failures.
 
Alex P said:
god's plan b lol....... Awesome...
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Satan could kill Jesus's body but could not kill his spirit. Jesus was totally victorious.
Through him and the Holy Spirit (spiritual Eve), humanity received spiritual salvation. We could be reborn spiritually.

Alex P said:
Sol.... How could jesus make a sinless family?
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Jesus came as a second Adam. God also prepared a second Eve. Jesus had God's seed. He wanted to multiply sinless children.
(The Old testament explained how Jesus could be born sinless.)

Jesus would have become our original ancestor (like Adam should have been) and the Kingdom of Heaven on earth could have started from one family and multiply from there.
Jesus could forgive sins even before he was crucified. He did not need to be crucified to forgive us.
The human fall and the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross were the two biggest heartbreaks for God. Imagine as a parent what you would feel

Alex P said:
aah dads coming hide the porn!
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There is nothing you can hide any way. When, we go to the spirit world, our whole life is for all to see
 
Netti-Netti said:
Are you sure it was Jesus doing the forgiving?
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Jesus asks God to forgive us. As his trustworthy son, one in heart with his father, he asks us to repent sincerely, gives us another chance and takes responsibility in front of God.
 
SOL:

wait wait wait.... I must of missed one big chestnut somewhere along the line...... god made another eve? Where did you learn that?

Oh please..... "He could kill like, his body, but not, like his spirit nah nah nah he, so like, totally wins!!!" You really think Satan sees jesus as a threat? He could of easily "won" take out christ and he cannot teach his sheep.... Satan gets his "win" Because the sacrafice would not of been paid..... But anyway why didn't he in this tale? Because the moral of this story is even with jesus there..... He can't save um all ;)
 
soleil10 said:
Dialogue, God does not change his purpose. We are the one delaying His providence for our own salvation.

Just imagine if Jesus could have lived and start the first sinless family on earth.

God does not change His purpose. We are the ones who are making it difficult and prolong its success through our failures.
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Well, Soleil10, do you think that we can stand in the way of God' plan?!! Do you want to say that God's power is so that weak that we the powerless, dependent human beings interfer to break it down?

If so, then you dont give God the right credit He deserves?! There is no "imagine if" because anything, anything, happened/happens/will happen, it was/is/will be God who planned it.

Do you remember the story I told you. We all thought that the bullet "mistakened" the right man. Actually, it was not a mistake. Everything in this world is done for a wisdom, and it works within God's plan. Glory is to God alone. He knows, and we dont. His will is always done, always.
 
wil said:
Why did you plenty out there with signs when New Orleans went under that G!d was after them because of their sin and deprivation...but low and behold he saved the French Quarter?? So much for that logic, the red light district survived.Spirit doesn't waiver, man's perspective does.
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I still think that there is some cause and effect phenomena due to humans actions. We cannot always understand how it comes out. During the time of New Orleans, Key West and Caucun were also hits and gay parades had to be cancelled.
Sometimes the coincidences are intriguing. I think evil which is accumulated can be used by Satan's spiritual world. It is the same with God's side.
We can see in our own life. If we make good conditions or bad conditions, there are consequences.
We are all connected. What we do spiritually as a group affect others and what they do affect us.
We can see that America is on a serious decline because of our bad conditions.
People still believe that politicians are going to save the day but I see a lot of corruption and arrogance there. We have pushed God away from this blessed nation. It is very sad.
 
dailogue is the best said:
Well, Soleil10, do you think that we can stand in the way of God' plan?!! Do you want to say that God's power is so that weak that we the powerless, dependent human beings interfer to break it down?
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Yes we do. From the beginning with Adam & Eve who did not obey God's commandement. We can see clearly in the bible that when God's chosen figures( representing all mankind) fail, God'' providence is delayed. When they succeed God's providence moves foward.

When Abraham failed in his first sacrifice, here is what happened.
Genesis 15:10-13

Abram obeyed the LORD. Then he cut the animals in half and laid the two halves of each animal opposite each other on the ground. But he did not cut the doves and pigeons in half. And when birds came down to eat the animals, Abram chased them away. As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and everything became dark and frightening. Then the LORD said:
Abram, you will live to an old age and die in peace. But I solemnly promise that your descendants will live as foreigners in a land that doesn't belong to them. They will be forced into slavery and abused for four hundred years.

Later on, Abraham did this sacrifice again but this time with greater faith with his son Isaac as the offering. He succeeded in faith and in unity with his son and God's providence moved forward.

dailogue is the best said:
If so, then you dont give God the right credit He deserves?! There is no "imagine if" because anything, anything, happened/happens/will happen, it was/is/will be God who planned it.
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No, I do. Because of love, God is vulnerable. It does not make Him less God. It is the opposite. Jesus was victorious through love. People of his time rejected him and killed him. Jesus appeared powerless. The soldiers were laughing at him about being the king of the Jews, powerless on a cross.

dailogue is the best said:
Do you remember the story I told you. We all thought that the bullet "mistakened" the right man. Actually, it was not a mistake. Everything in this world is done for a wisdom, and it works within God's plan. Glory is to God alone. He knows, and we dont. His will is always done, always.
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God's will is rarely done. This is why, there is so much suffering. Look at the world. Is there one nation doing God's will that God can clain as His own. God does not even own one nation. Even in America, God is becoming a four letter words in our schools.

God is patient and will win at the end but we are and have hurt his plans for so long. God is a suffering God.
 
Alex P said:
SOL:wait wait wait.... I must of missed one big chestnut somewhere along the line...... god made another eve? Where did you learn that?
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It is absolutly logical. God created Adam & Eve. They both fell and multiplied "evil" children. (we are born with the original sin)
Jesus came as a second Adam. He was sinless and had God's seed.

The biggest threat to Satan was that Jesus would create a family with sinless children and start God's lineage. God had to have prepared a second Eve too. Due to the lack of faith of the chosen people influenced by Satan, Jesus was killed.
Through his absolute victory on the cross, Jesus brought out spiritual salvation to mankind. The Holy spirit represents Eve spiritually.[/quote]

Alex P said:
Oh please..... "He could kill like, his body, but not, like his spirit nah nah nah he, so like, totally wins!!!" You really think Satan sees jesus as a threat? He could of easily "won" take out christ and he cannot teach his sheep.... Satan gets his "win" Because the sacrifice would not of been paid..... But anyway why didn't he in this tale? Because the moral of this story is even with jesus there..... He can't save um all ;)
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Our spirit is eternal and never dies. Jesus did not surrender his spirit to Satan. Satan tried but was defeated. The Messiah needs man's cooperation and unity with him. Satan invaded the people who were prepared to receive Jesus. They did not protect Jesus precious physical body.

Can I ask you, why do you use Satan's picture under you name ? Is there a reason ?
Are you worshiping him ? I am just curious
 
ooooooh I see... So you're just making that bit up and passing it off as logic? Ok got it.... Oh... no wait, the holy spirit is the 2nd eve? Man, you have a very interesting, and different view of things from most I encounter....... Or I could just be misunderstanding this lol.

I might be reading into it wrong.... But, do you think "the people" should have protected jesus' "precious" physical body? Why was his flesh precious? It's.... Just, flesh.....

Satan? Oh that's not satan heh.......
 
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