Atheist group sells certificates of debaptism

[Nick the Pilot]

Atheist group sells certificates of debaptism

London, England, Apr 3, 2009 / 04:28 pm (CNA).- The National Secular Society in London, England, is offering a debaptism certificate that allows atheists to "liberate yourself from the Original Mumbo-Jumbo that liberated you from the Original Sin you never had!"

The National Secular Society (NSS), an atheist humanist organization established in 1866, reports on their website that the "Certificate of Debaptism" has been downloaded over 100,000 times and is available to buy online. The certificate, which is printed on "quality parchment paper," demonstrates a trend, according to NSS President Terry Sanderson. "The concept of de-baptism indicates that people are not just indifferent to religion-which has been the traditional British approach-but are actually becoming hostile to it."

The certificate declares:

I ________ having been subjected to the Rite of Christian Baptism in infancy (before reaching an age of consent), hereby publicly revoke any implications of that Rite and renounce the Church that carried it out. In the name of human reason, I reject all its Creeds and all other such superstition in particular, the perfidious belief that any baby needs to be cleansed by Baptism of alleged ORIGINAL SIN, and the evil power of supposed demons. I wish to be excluded henceforth from enhanced claims of church membership numbers based on past baptismal statistics used, for example, for the purpose of securing legislative privilege.

The NSS site explains that the proceeds from the certificate, which sells for roughly $4.50, goes to support campaign activities including "secularization of Britain’s education system" the elimination of "abstinence campaigns," and their primary long term goal of "disestablishment of the Church of England."

According to Tearfund, the Church of England has been in a state of crises for many years. England, which has over 60 million citizens, counts 25 million as part of their official Church, but recent statistics have shown that only slightly more than 1.1 million attend religious services on a regular basis.

 

[citizenzen]

Friends don't let friends baptize their children.

 

[Thomas]

Like the saying says, there's one born every minute.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Luckily my mum and dad understood my right of individual freedom to choose whether or not I wanted to be superstitious. So I remain unsullied by this imposition of church and that first rite of indoctrination into supporting its corrupt body.

The very notion of Original Sin is evil of itself. Step one in 'breaking' down the psyche in the bad cop/good cop device of Christian brainwashing. And to believe that any child needs to be cleansed of the supposed sins of some fictional first man is plainly ridiculous.

 

[GlorytoGod]

sounds like a joke really, if you dont believe it then why do you need a certificate to tell u that ? maybe its just a money making scam, talk about selling something that you dont believe in

i was baptized last year and it was a wonderful experience.

 

[Thomas]

sounds like a joke really, if you dont believe it then why do you need a certificate to tell u that ? maybe its just a money making scam, talk about selling something that you dont believe in

Quite!

i was baptized last year and it was a wonderful experience.

I'm glad for you ... at this time in the Catholic calendar is the time of renewal.

At the Easter Vigil Mass on Saturday, those who have been preparing through the year to be received into the Church are baptised, so that the first time they engage in the Mystery and receive the Sacrament happens immediately after the Holy Friday service, which recalls its institution. At that service the whole congregation are invited to renew their own baptismal profession.

My Church is a Dominican Priory, and so the Liturgy follows the Monastic form established by St Dominic, so it's full on 'bells and smells' and the whole community is called to an act of veneration of the Cross.

You can rest assured that our correspondents above would be horrified.

Thomas

 

[Snoopy]

and for further comments! -

http://www.interfaith.org/forum/debaptise-yourself-11058.html

s.

 

[Tao_Equus]

Quite!

Rotfpml, what utter hypocrisy coming from a member of the richest, corrupt and most brutal religion in history. You have a bare faced cheek being critical of a secular bit of light-heartedness when you belong to a religion that only recently was responsible for the Rwandan Genocide of 1 million people and who's official body attempted to thwart bringing the Bishops who caused it to justice. Remember too this easter the million that died at the hands of Papal fascism during WW2. Drink the blood and rejoice.

 

[GlorytoGod]

Rotfpml, what utter hypocrisy coming from a member of the richest, corrupt and most brutal religion in history. You have a bare faced cheek being critical of a secular bit of light-heartedness when you belong to a religion that only recently was responsible for the Rwandan Genocide of 1 million people and who's official body attempted to thwart bringing the Bishops who caused it to justice. Remember too this easter the million that died at the hands of Papal fascism during WW2. Drink the blood and rejoice.

i take it your agenda is to mock Christianity and Christians

 

[iBrian]

Calm the attacks down, please, Tao - no one's telling you that Atheism is evil because of the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot.

In the meantime, moved to Politics.

 

[Selaphiel]

I find this rather unnecessary. Sounds like a cry for attention and nothing else. Why would you pay 3£ for certificate that should mean nothing to you. All it was for you was some water on your head and probably a nice day for your family, if you need a certificate to prove your stance against that then be my guest. I would suggest that you take those 5$ and buy a meal for a homeless person instead.

 

[Tao_Equus]

i take it your agenda is to mock Christianity and Christians

And yours is to go through life blind to the horror it creates? But to answer your question. No, my agenda is not to mock Christians and Christianity. My agenda is to present facts. And that is what I have done. How do you reconcile these facts with your belief? That is up to you. But if you feel I mock you I suggest that you look within to find the reason and not shoot the messenger. It was you and Thomas, not I, that sought to mock what is after all just a bit of lighthearted fun with the monumental hypocrisy that it was just some scam. And now I have to suspect that because your bluff was called one of you called in Brian to 'silence' me. Why? Because I speak complete sense and truth and you have no defence against that other than to cut out the tongue that utters it.

IBrian: Calm the attacks down, please, Tao - no one's telling you that Atheism is evil because of the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot.

And where do I support any of them? I do not speak for atheism I speak for myself. Hitler was a Catholic, Catholic priests gave Nazi salutes when officiating the marraiges of Nazi commanders. The others had political religions that I would never give sanction to.
As I state above it was not me who sought to mock. The things I spoke of are 'deadly' serious and go to highlight the hypocrisy of GTG and Thomas in having the bare faced cheek to insinuate a corrupt motive where there patently is none. If they want to make ill judged statements they have to be prepared to be challenged on them. I have no bias against either, and would and have supported opinions that I agree with.
And I would ask, for the record, was my post "brought to your attention"? Was someone wanting my tounge cut out?

 

[GlorytoGod]

And yours is to go through life blind to the horror it creates? But to answer your question. No, my agenda is not to mock Christians and Christianity. My agenda is to present facts. And that is what I have done. How do you reconcile these facts with your belief? That is up to you. But if you feel I mock you I suggest that you look within to find the reason and not shoot the messenger. It was you and Thomas, not I, that sought to mock what is after all just a bit of lighthearted fun with the monumental hypocrisy that it was just some scam. And now I have to suspect that because your bluff was called one of you called in Brian to 'silence' me. Why? Because I speak complete sense and truth and you have no defence against that other than to cut out the tongue that utters it.

And where do I support any of them? I do not speak for atheism I speak for myself. Hitler was a Catholic, Catholic priests gave Nazi salutes when officiating the marraiges of Nazi commanders. The others had political religions that I would never give sanction to.
As I state above it was not me who sought to mock. The things I spoke of are 'deadly' serious and go to highlight the hypocrisy of GTG and Thomas in having the bare faced cheek to insinuate a corrupt motive where there patently is none. If they want to make ill judged statements they have to be prepared to be challenged on them. I have no bias against either, and would and have supported opinions that I agree with.
And I would ask, for the record, was my post "brought to your attention"? Was someone wanting my tounge cut out?

you are just spreading negativity and hatred, plain and simple you can dress it up however you want but thats all it is you clearly have some issues that need to be worked out.

But I want to bless you Tao.
May your mind and heart be opened to the joy of the Lord
and may Christ find a home in your heart and grow and pour out
In name of Jesus
Amen

 

[Tao_Equus]

you are just spreading negativity and hatred, plain and simple you can dress it up however you want but thats all it is you clearly have some issues that need to be worked out.

I do indeed have some issues I would love to see worked out. But this is not one of them. I am absolutely clear on this issue. It is not me or my beliefs that sanction genocide and concentration camps. But repeatedly it has been the sanction of the CC that caused and perpetrated such acts. YOU accuse me of spreading negativity and hatred but it is not me that supports a religion that repeatedly commits mass murder in its name. If the CC had not committed such acts then my words could not appear here. So if you see negativity and hatred in my words you know who to blame.

 

[wil]

What we resists persists.

The whole concept is just a joke and should be treated as such.

Like selling star names or plots of land on mars, it is just ludicrous designed to incense and Christians are falling for it.

I performed for a number of years as a clown. There was a contingent of clowns that everytime somebody made and evil clown or one with an unappealing nature they were up in arms (think, Homey, the one on the Simpsons, or that Steven King wrote). They get all excited and do nothing but to assist in promoting that which they are attempting to condemn.

Since I'll already get in trouble for comparing this righteous indignation to meer complaints by clowns I might as well say:

I can actually understand how some folks would actually want to entertain this sort of ritual as they age, mature and change beliefs from that of their parents. Baptism to me seems more suited for someone who decides this for themselves, and goes in with open eyes and aware that they want to become one with Christ.

 

[Tao_Equus]

The whole concept is just a joke and should be treated as such.

I agree, it is just a bit of fun.

Like selling star names or plots of land on mars, it is just ludicrous designed to incense and Christians are falling for it.

I disagree, it's just a bit of fun. Though it may be used by some Christians to whip up some perverted moral outrage.

 

[Thomas]

Hitler was a Catholic, Catholic priests gave Nazi salutes when officiating the marriages of Nazi commanders.

According to your wholesale swallowing of his propaganda.

The frightening thing is, these could almost be you:
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death ... the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity [is] the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

And there's more here. The quotes are denied by Hitler fans and anti-Catholics alike, but Bormann and Speer both endorsed them.

But what is certain fact from documents captured is that once Hitler had got ride of the Jews, the Jesuits were his next target, and the Church after that, for speaking out against him in Germany.

Cleft stick now, old pal, you're singing Hitler's song, it seems ...

+++

On the historical issue, had the church spoken out against Hitler, then he would have grounds to declare Catholics traitors, and try them for treason simply for being Catholic, which is what happened in Elizabethan England, in which far many more Catholics died at the hands at the Protestants than did the latter under 'Bloody Mary'.

By not speaking out, the Church preserved the lives of Catholics in occupied countries, and used what facilities she had to preserve the lives of those Jews she could.

No doubt you will regard all this as Catholic propaganda, but that's OK.

What does worry me is it is the likes of you that engender the environment that sanctions the murder of people purely for holding a belief that differs from your own. Your secular fundamentalism frightens me more than American Christian fundamentalism, and that's saying something.

It's attitudes and voices like yours that has packed our prisons with Moslems since 9.11; that almost everyone of Mediterranean extraction is looked on as a terrorist ... a fact I tried to allude to in a recent post.

Thomas

 

[Tao_Equus]

According to your wholesale swallowing of his propaganda.

The frightening thing is, these could almost be you:
"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death ... the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity [is] the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

And there's more here. The quotes are denied by Hitler fans and anti-Catholics alike, but Bormann and Speer both endorsed them.

But what is certain fact from documents captured is that once Hitler had got ride of the Jews, the Jesuits were his next target, and the Church after that, for speaking out against him in Germany.

Cleft stick now, old pal, you're singing Hitler's song, it seems ...

+++

On the historical issue, had the church spoken out against Hitler, then he would have grounds to declare Catholics traitors, and try them for treason simply for being Catholic, which is what happened in Elizabethan England, in which far many more Catholics died at the hands at the Protestants than did the latter under 'Bloody Mary'.

By not speaking out, the Church preserved the lives of Catholics in occupied countries, and used what facilities she had to preserve the lives of those Jews she could.

No doubt you will regard all this as Catholic propaganda, but that's OK.

What does worry me is it is the likes of you that engender the environment that sanctions the murder of people purely for holding a belief that differs from your own. Your secular fundamentalism frightens me more than American Christian fundamentalism, and that's saying something.

It's attitudes and voices like yours that has packed our prisons with Moslems since 9.11; that almost everyone of Mediterranean extraction is looked on as a terrorist ... a fact I tried to allude to in a recent post.

Thomas

Carry on Thomas, keep trying to discredit me and label me with crap. Throw enough mud in the hope that some of it will stick.

It was the Catholic Church under the direct orders of Pope Pious that operated and murdered close to a million people in Croatia. And with such brutality that they 'shocked' the Nazi party observers. Wriggle all you want Thomas. Try to insult my integrity all you want. You just succeed in illustrating how devious and malign the CC still is.

 

[dailogue is the best]

@ Tao

Peace Tao,

Shall I understand from your posts that it is religion is the cause of those atrocities and crimes?! If so, how can we then ignore the terrible atrocities made by athesits (eg: communism/atheism)?!

Holding to your view, and reading religion in some of its holders' doings, then we can also hold that atheism is also responsible for the devaluation of human life, and the horrible bloodsheed it caused....

 

[Tao_Equus]

@ Tao

Peace Tao,

Shall I understand from your posts that it is religion is the cause of those atrocities and crimes?! If so, how can we then ignore the terrible atrocities made by athesits (eg: communism/atheism)?!

Peace to you too

Communism is not atheism. And I do not represent atheism either. I represent my own thinking and my own thinking alone. I am an atheist because I do not believe there is any God or Deity. Not believing in god or deity does not make me a communist nor a fascist nor affiliate me to any other group. It is a shameI have already stated as much twice on this thread already, but still you cannot see basic logic.