What to do with N Korea?

What to you guess will happen with the North Korea problem?

  • The US will nuke N.Korea

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • The US will go via the UN and invade conventionally

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • S.Korea and or Japan will go to war with N.Korea

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • Nothing, it will all blow over in a few weeks.

    Votes: 6 60.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Tao_Equus

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For those of you that keep abreast of world bolitics you will be aware of the North Korean muscle flexing going on at the moment. Given that Kim has a standing army of 1 million, possibly 1000s of ballistic missiles and an estimated dozen nuclear warheads is this a case where pre-emptive strike really is required?
I am not asking in the poll what you would like to see happen, but what you think might actually happen.
 
A kid with a water pistol doesnt concern me. Thats the anaology you get if you compare North Korea to many other nations.
 
For those of you that keep abreast of world bolitics <sic> you will be aware of the North Korean muscle flexing going on at the moment. Given that Kim has a standing army of 1 million, possibly 1000s of ballistic missiles and an estimated dozen nuclear warheads is this a case where pre-emptive strike really is required?

N. Korea is a spoiled kid throwing a tantrum. They are wanting attention, and don't know how to behave. And by "behave" I don't mean "fall in line with what they are told to do," I mean the simple act of courteous civility.

Everybody wants money from America it seems, including N. Korea. But they want it on their terms. Ummm, what's wrong with this picture? I demand money from you, and if you don't give it to me I'm going to threaten your buddies...that is blackmail at best, and childish to believe it is the way to go about requesting aid and assistance from anybody.

Frankly, I think sanctions should be imposed, and a deaf ear turned until Kim learns to act like a civil adult. I don't think temper tantrums should be rewarded.

Having said that, I don't think anybody should take their eye off this lunatic for even a moment.
 
Everybody wants money from America it seems, including N. Korea.

Well they're looking in the wrong place. The new superpower is China, their next door neighbor.

The other day I heard some official talk about how this was China's realm of responsibility. It was just a few years ago that the whole world was America's to watch over and rule. Thank God we've finally started to realize that the Earth isn't the property of the good old U.S.A.

I'd like to propose a toast. Here's to China. May you only be half as ignorant, violent and selfish as we were for the past 100 years.
 
Everybody wants money from America it seems, including N. Korea.

Doesn't everybody know that America is broke and has bad credit? :rolleyes:

citizenzen said:
I'd like to propose a toast. Here's to China. May you only be half as ignorant, violent and selfish as we were for the past 100 years.

:D

*raises glass, drinks heartily*
 
I agree with you but you can always wish it for someone else? China has many issues within its own country that are non exsistent in the US and Europe. I would hate to imagine if they were the only super power.
 
The key to North Korea has always seemed China.

The US and Japan can make whatever noises they want, but China is the only country with the ability to *resolve* the issue.

Some have suggested China has been happy to let things run loose with North Korea, believing that so long as they hold the leash, they can not simply bring North Korea to heel, but do so in such a way as to demonstrate irrevocably that China is the region's only superpower.

The recent nuclear test shows an escalation behind the scenes, not least in tandem with Kim's ill-health - but is China really pulling the strings on this, and will they pull them in?
 
I don't think that the US or its allies have the resources to sustain a traditional military campaign against either N. Korea or Iran. We're already starving the N. Korean people to death, how much worse can we make it? The regime just eats our carrots and laughs at our sticks.

Chris
 
The other day I heard some official talk about how this was China's realm of responsibility.

I can see how there is a diplomatic lean in this direction...the 6 party talks and all...and I do think there is a growing concensus in the west that the US has its hands full enough and that somebody else needs to start stepping up to the plate.

The US has only been a serious international player since the end of WW2, after Europe's economies were devastated by that war. Relaxing of the gold standard only furthered the US influence economically. I think the EU was formed in part to regroup and regain some of the ground Europe (particularly Britain, France and Germany) lost economically, but there is still a lot of repair going on there as Eastern Europe gets reacquainted with Western Europe.

China has been a serious power in the East for a very long time, a lot longer than our short term memories are willing to admit. I think we figure China didn't get started until Chairman Mao...which in a sense is true, but in a broader sense is quite untrue. But Japan as well has been a force to reckon with, as WW2 demonstrated. Korea (combined North and South) has had a very long history of trying to retain its cultural identity while being constantly challenged from both sides: China and Japan. In my mind it is a remarkable feat that they have managed so far to do so.

I don't wish any ill on the people of North Korea. But the leadership does leave much to be desired. I don't expect North Korea to kowtow, but at the same time I don't expect to be blackmailed or bullied into "aid payments" because of saber rattling.
 
My take on it is that Kim is the most dangerous man alive today. His pathological hatred of the US is focused on a strike not there but on Japan and S.Korea both within a distance where a strike can be made with no possibility of warning or counter measure, save retaliation.

The man believes himself a god. Like the schoolyard bully he gets off on people fearing him. And he wants a prominent place in the history books. And he has the means to achieve such infamy that he will never be forgotten. Indeed that is the only way the world will remember him long beyond his imminent death. I see all this as more than a bit scary.

I think China is largely responsible for this situation. Certainly in the supply of uranium and the technology to process it. And China has rather enjoyed having Japan squirming in fear. But like many a rabid puppet they are ever capable of biting off the strings of control.

Although never gone into in any depth in the western media it is my view that the US has already tried to take him out with a mini-nuke a few years back. They almost got him too. I do not think Obama has the stomach to try it though. I hope nothing does happen but my breath will be held until that man dies.
 
NorthKoreaPoster.jpg
 
Yes, I heard that this morning and reformers speaking that if they were to make any move it had to be before this young son took power....
 
The Security Council issued a strongly worded warning to North Korea about its missile tests: Stop, or we'll tell you to stop again!
 
The Security Council issued a strongly worded warning to North Korea about its missile tests: Stop, or we'll tell you to stop again!

Lol!! That's what it sounds like, but I wonder what discussions are going on with regards to aid for North Korea. I was easily given the impression that the only reason North Korea accepted a stop on its nuclear development was simply to give time to get the US aid in. However, China seems to be the major provider of aid to North Korea, so again, China is the only one with any real ability to influence matters constructively.
 
I find this situation shocking, little bit of history first; North Korea (DPRK) The northern(obviously) body of the Korean peninsula which was controled in whole by the Korean Empire (1897 - 1910) In 1905 Korea was invaded and occupied by the Japanese, and this is basically when the seperation came on the 38th paralle. Which was like at the end of WWII (1945) (2.5 miles depth and 155 miles in width, right across the middle of Korea.) Seperating the north and south. The north being backed by the communists and the south by the Americans.... In 1948 elections were held and both south and north had their own leaders even though they still claimed sovereignty over the entire country.

In 1950 there was a war/civil war/part of the cold war... Many titles for some reason, I'll just go with Korean war.... North Vs South/Small US force... To claim this sovereignty.... And uhm "unification" although unity on ones terms not alls terms.... heh. This took Kim Il Sung (the father of Kim Jong Il) a hard long time to convice the Communist leader Stalin to allow them to rage this war on the south, as the Russians feared reactions from the US.... He promised within thirty days that he would control the North.... Well... 1953 three years later... And there was still deadlock, after millions of deaths... They were still no futher forward still pushed to the 38th parellel...

After over a thousand meetings they finally arranged to sign a ceasefire, The Americans leading this requested The North to sign the treaty in a tent along the 38th, however denying this, the North spent the next three days constructing a building... (which still stands today on the 38th in the JSA. Joint Security Area; Which is the nearest the soldiers come together like 8 metres away from one another, and still all meetings are held here.) to sign this cease fire... And that is all that came from the war... A cease fire.... No peace treaty has ever been signed... (and I seriously doubt that there will ever be a signed peace agreement.)

The 38th Became known today as the DMZ... DeMilitarized Zone. There are a fair few DMZ's in the world, however this is -thee- most dangerous one of them all.. Over 2 million soldiers face off against one another... Just biding time.... There are many, many electric fences that spread across the DMZ... Touch one of these, and you are dead. This is also the -most- heavily mined area in the world... Millions of land mines are spread across the DMZ. The thought of war is quite daunting, because within the first few hours there would be over 2 million deaths.... I think this would be the hardest time of fatality count and it would decrease it's rate. But for example Seoul (pronounced: Soul) the Capital of South Korea is only 70km from the North's Capital Pyongyang (pronounced: pong yang) and is only 50km's from the DMZ. Literally in -minutes- the North's artillery power could turn this giant to rubble.

There have only been a few skirmishes across the DMZ over the years the two I find most intersting would be the Axe murders incident... Basically there is a post (many posts lol...) but this one in particular... Check Point #3.... Known as the most lonley post in the world lol... And the least favourtie CP to be put on at the DMZ, as many times the KPA (Koreans people's army, the north) have attempted to drag soldiers across the bridge (of no return) to their side. In 1976 this CP was blocked by like a 100ft poplar tree, it also blocked the sight of a UN's Observation post (OP #5) So logic calls for them to go and cut this tree back so their visions were clear..

So a group of Korean Service corps (KSC: S.Korean soldiers) escorted by the UNC and JSF. Went across halfway and started to cut down branches, then 16 or so KPA's appeared on the over border and were watching for awhile then told them they had to stop with such comments as that Kim Il Sung had personally planted the tree and he cared for it, and they couldn't cut at it. So they kept ignoring them and cutting at it, The Koreans sent soldiers across and there was a skirmish and basically the north took axes from the workers and butchered two American soldiers. (Capt. Bonifas & Lt. Barrett) I saw some where orginal photos from one of the UN OP's Not sure which one it was but a soldier there had a camera and got photos of the attack.... Unreal.

I think three days or so later, Operation Paul Bunyan, was exectued...... Which was like insane.... 23 S.Korean / US vehicles convoy (task force Vierra) two 30 man platoons of infantry soldiers, a 64 man S.Korean platoon, 27 cobra helicopters.... 20 b-52 bombs and 30 F-4 fighter jets.... And F-5 fighter Jets... And F-111 Jets grounded but ready....... All to cut down a tree.... They were no longer gonna trim it... They had to say **** you to the north. So they cut it down... The stump was left as a memorial and reminder..... CP #3 is no longer used.....

Now this DMZ I mentioned, if.... IF North Korean Defectors can cross it.... They have citizenship and freedom waiting for them in the south.... Millions attempt to flee from North Korea, The only other borders that connect to the north would be China in the north and the very Northeast Russia.. The only thing along these borders are giant rivers... A few patrols and a few watchtowers, so the majority of the N.Korean Defectors (Refugees) obviously choose this way to escape, although I know that a few North Koreans have managed to go DMZ route.

And this is what I was trying to get to lol sorry, shocking... Ok what I find shocking is that this state is falling a ****ing part.... It is run by a ****ing idiot, Kim Jong Il (67...ish) Who took the reigns of power from his father who died in 1994 (Kim Il Sung) They run on a regime that obviously doesn't work, it is brutual, it is unfair, it lacks justice, and it must end... That is why I would say this is NOT a communist state, sure when Kim Il Sung was in charge of the guerilla party back in the days of the cold war kissing Stalins ass, and then taking out other parties and dodging Stalins assassination plots... But he then formed his own system and schooled the people in Juche... Which is self preservation... I find this ironic as they cannot self preserve... AT freaking ALL. The other reason I find it unique from communism is that it hands its power down in a family, Il sung -- Jong Il and now Jong Il has named Kim Jong Un (his youngest of three sons (26 something) as the next leader, declaring the march 25th nuke test in thanks to him and intelligence reports say they are now schooling the people to praise Jong Un...

So this busted Juche Regime... It doesn't work... Millions Starve to death.... Children literally pick corn from Cow waste to eat.... People eat tree bark, grass, anything to put something in their stomach, you are not free and have no opinion here, it is like their mass games that they display... There is no individual there is only us... Yet us are not treated equal. So you attempt to live and be free and be yourself you will either end up in one of their death camps.... Like 'Number 22' or you will be thrown into the mines.... Or publicly executed or just tortured/raped. I heard a story from one of the EX prison guards who defected and got through the DMZ that a child was beaten to death for looking for food... The child was hunting a mouse. Like in 1995 showed the worst famine, and even then the regime cut back even more so on who deserved food rations... And some units of lower class/rank soldiers also were left to starve... One such unit from Hamhung... decided to march on Pyongyang.... They vanished.... and there isn't much known about their unit, but it was disbanded.......

Kim Jong Il pisses me off so much... lol I can't even describe it... Like when there was aid support to the country all the food/water/whatnot... did it go to those who needed it? **** no... don't be silly, it went to the loyalists..... They started to do checks and such and started to use logic. That they wanted to supply the aid themselves personally to those who needed it... Kim didn't like this and said all aid had to be sent to Pyongyang.... The show case capital for loyalists.... (oh yeah if you didn't know In Korea, you are -told- where you live, you do not get to choose.... You need freaking permission to go just from town to town...) The aid groups obviously refused knowing what was happening... so what does Kim do? He stops it full stop....... So no one now gets aid in N.Korea....

This has to be the worst country for violations of human rights... Can you understand why there are like 300,000 refugees in China? And everyday even more attempt to escape, sometimes with the aid of groups such as the Underground railway... That are a Christian group formed in the South... They attempt to get people out through China and then to Mogolia, or Thailand or right around a very long winded dangerous route to get back to the South... You see, for these Refugees, you'd think once they were in China they'd be safe?

Sadly not... Because still here they get their rights violated... If they don't end up in the hands of Human traffickers They still have the risk of being caught by China because China doesn't care for these people and returns them to North Korea... Which ensures their death... Defectors are tortured and put in camps or just killed.. Women, Children, Men, young, old it doesn't matter they will get sub-human treatment... Even pregnant women that come back, and their children are brutually aborted by the North.....

Chun Ki-Won the pastor who is like the leader of the Underground Railroad, Is such a man... I really wish I could be as good as this guy, I admire him and he should inspire others to care for mankind... He risks so much to help these people, a North Korean Refugee has few friends... Even the ****ing UNHC Who are a department in the UN who are soley to save and help Refugees are rarley friends... They do not do enough... And that pisses me off... Every month hundreds of Koreans are capatured and hunted down in China and forced back to Korea... Which is against International laws, you CANNOT force/send someone back to their country if there is risk of death, torture and sub human treatment... Most of them just want to get out from China to Mongolia or other countries.... Many Attempt to rush/blitz embassy gates in China to get asylum... why can't China just help these people? Most of them wouldn't even stay in their freaking country if they could get the chance to get else where...

Anyway, I am at work and thought I would just write something like this to kill time, but I would also love to help make people aware of The North Korean Refugees, and their whole population.... They need help... They need freedom....

Looking at the current situation... You got the US shipping more planes to Japan..... Even sold a ton of GBU-28's to South Korea.... North Korea has cleared the oceans of civilan ships.... Setting up three missiles (Nodongs and Taepodong-1s) on the east coast? Setting up an ICBM (Taepodong-2) on the west? double ammounition to soldiers on the DMZ? South Moving up Battleships.... Is this going to kick off? I honestly hope so... I have for a few years been one of peace, I strongly am agaisn't killing, I cried when I killed a freaking greenfly by accident like 2 weeks back...

But I've been looking at this, and maybe sometimes death is for a bigger better picture.... Millions will die if there is a war... But, millions are already dying.... And millions more will still die if nothing happens... The people of North Korea deserve freedom, deserve their human rights... No one can take your ****ing human rights from you.... Kim Jong il is a fat lil child with a temper... He needs a ****ing spanking... Seriously look at it..... I know like 60% perhaps more of the incomes money of the North goes directly to the Military so yeah no doubt they got the goods.... And they got the numbers (4th largest army) But... You hit these ****ers.... People fear a mass panic and refugees in the hundreds.... OPEN your ****ing eyes... There are already thousands and thousands of refugees attempting to seek saftey... But, that isn't the point I mean... All these people WILL turn on their leader and his iron fist...

There are so many underground rebels there now.... You attack them you would find the majority of the north of north korea would support you.... Allowing this **** to continue isn't right... We going to just continue to sit back like idle ******? Shrug our shoulders say it isn't our responsability? The deaths our on our hands for doing nothing... That death count rises every day... Every single day...... Ok I need a cigarette so I finsh my rant with a quote/poem from WWII "First they came...."

When the Nazis came for the Communists.
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they locked up the Social Democrats. I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists.
I did not protest;
I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews.
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.

One Love
17.



[Admin edit by I, Brian - removed sex toy image!]
 
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