A gay church?

[Marsh]

Homosexuality has come up quite a bit in other threads lately, so I thought this topic would be timely. What do you think of the concept of an institutionally gay church? A church where homosexual people would be welcomed? Where they would be allowed to worship freely? Where the sermons would be directed toward them instead of against them, and where the pastor themselves, being gay, would be able to relate to the congregation better? In small towns such things are impossible, but in large cities there are surely enough numbers to make such a church viable. Would this concept make sense to you? Would it make sense to homosexual people? Would homosexual people find this concept offensive? Another example of sectioning them off from the rest of society? Or would they find it liberating?

From what I know about early American history, several colonies were founded by religious congregations that broke off and went out on their own because of irreconcilible differences with the mainstream Episcopal church at the time. In the same way that they broke away, would it make sense for the gay and lesbian community to break away from an institution that, implicitly or explicitly, does not accept them?

 

[Janz]

Here is a link to the Metropolitan Community Church:

Metropolitan Community Churches | HomePage

[FONT=Trebuchet MS,Trebuchet,Times,Times New Roman,serif]"The Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches is a Christian Church founded in and reaching beyond the Gay and Lesbian communities. We embody and proclaim Christian salvation and liberation, Christian inclusivity and community, and Christian social action and justice. We serve among those seeking and celebrating the integration of their spirituality and sexuality."[/FONT]


We believe:
-In one triune God, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, of one substance and of three persons: God - our Parent-Creator; Jesus Christ the only begotten son of God, God in flesh, human; and the Holy Spirit - God as our Sustainer.
-That the Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God, showing forth God to every person through the law and the prophets, and finally, completely and ultimately on earth in the being of Jesus Christ.
-That Jesus...the Christ...historically recorded as living some 2,000 years before this writing, is God incarnate, of human birth, fully God and fully human, and that by being one with God, Jesus has demonstrated once and forever that all people are likewise Children of God, being spiritually made in God's image.
-That the Holy Spirit is God making known God's love and interest to all people. The Holy Spirit is God, available to and working through all who are willing to place their welfare in God's keeping.
-Every person is justified by grace to God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Also the United Church of Christ is the most gay supportive mainline Christian denomination in the United States.

 

[wil]

There are many churches that openly support gay people. Heck the Episcopalians have a lesbian bishop no? I've also heard of gay freindly seminaries.

I think it is actually the other way around. Many churches are don't ask don't tell, some are openly against gays, but those that are would truly be surprised at the number that aren't.

In our church their are two openly gay couples, one male (married) couple and one female couple that have been together for years. I've got no idea how many other gay follks are members...it isn't on the application.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

I think it is 100% wrong to have a gay church. I think it is 100% right to call gays to worship.

 

[wil]

I think it is 100% wrong to have a gay church. I think it is 100% right to call gays to worship.

Heck Sunday is already the most segregated day of the week.

We've got black churhes, white churches, hispanic churches, asian churches, Korean churches...

Folks have a right to worship where they want. And odds are there are some primarily gay churches...and just like white folk aint comfortable in a 95% black church, straights wouldn't be comfortable their.

Not to say it is right or wrong but birds of a feather do flock together on Sundays....

 

[path_of_one]

I think the Christian ideal would be all followers of Christ united- black and white, gay and straight, old and young- together in worship. Together in fellowship and support.

Unfortunately, a lot of the time people's discomfort with those unlike themselves get in the way of this ideal. So you get denominational and other rifts that divide the body of Christ. Sad, but understandable given how people usually operate and seek out "like" people so that they are comfy.

 

[citizenzen]

Homosexuality has come up quite a bit in other threads lately, so I thought this topic would be timely. What do you think of the concept of an institutionally gay church?

The problem here is these personal aspects are very different. Sexual orientation does not determine ones spiritual proclivity, just as one's spiritual proclivity does not determine one's sexual preference.

The OP seeks to elevate sexuality to the primary position of one's life priorities. My spirituality is my highest priority. How I express my sexuality falls far below that.

While you may have the best intentions, I'm afraid you're perpetuating the stereotype of gays that sees them driven primarily by their sexuality, which is a false assumption.

We don't need a gay church. We need to allow two consenting adults to associate with who they choose. And how people express their sexuality in private is really up to the couple involved and no one else's business.

 

[GlorytoGod]

i think they are on thin ice Biblicaly speaking, but other than that go 4 it.

 

[wil]

i think they are on thin ice Biblicaly speaking, but other than that go 4 it.

Actually if one lays all the scripture that is used against gays out and then looks at the paragraph above and below this anti gay text we find so sacred... we then find plenty of stuff that we make excuses for as to why that is not applicable today...

We all pick and choose scripture.

 

[GlorytoGod]

Actually if one lays all the scripture that is used against gays out and then looks at the paragraph above and below this anti gay text we find so sacred... we then find plenty of stuff that we make excuses for as to why that is not applicable today...

i have heard the argument before and its pants IMO.

but all power to the gay church

 

[wil]

i have heard the argument before and its pants IMO.

but all power to the gay church

then pick the scripture that you think justifies your prejudice and lets see.

 

[Quahom1]

Homosexuality has come up quite a bit in other threads lately, so I thought this topic would be timely. What do you think of the concept of an institutionally gay church? A church where homosexual people would be welcomed? Where they would be allowed to worship freely? Where the sermons would be directed toward them instead of against them, and where the pastor themselves, being gay, would be able to relate to the congregation better? In small towns such things are impossible, but in large cities there are surely enough numbers to make such a church viable. Would this concept make sense to you? Would it make sense to homosexual people? Would homosexual people find this concept offensive? Another example of sectioning them off from the rest of society? Or would they find it liberating?

From what I know about early American history, several colonies were founded by religious congregations that broke off and went out on their own because of irreconcilible differences with the mainstream Episcopal church at the time. In the same way that they broke away, would it make sense for the gay and lesbian community to break away from an institution that, implicitly or explicitly, does not accept them?

Hmm, seperate but equal? Where have I heard that before...

 

[Janz]

While you may have the best intentions, I'm afraid you're perpetuating the stereotype of gays that sees them driven primarily by their sexuality, which is a false assumption.

We don't need a gay church. We need to allow two consenting adults to associate with who they choose. And how people express their sexuality in private is really up to the couple involved and no one else's business.

I understand what you are saying here but I disagree. If you read the statement of faith of the MCC; you will find that their beliefs line up with most evangelical churches except for one. For many centuries, the Christian Church's attitude toward human sexuality was very negative: sex was for procreation, not for pleasure; women and slaves were considered property to be owned by males; and many expressions of heterosexuality, like homosexuality, were considered sinful. Such tradition often continues to influence churches today. Many churches teach that women should be subordinate to men, continue to permit forms of discrimination against peoples of color, and condemn homosexuals. They say that all homosexual acts are sinful, often referring to their interpretation of scripture.

The MCC was founded in 1968 and is very inclusive. Membership is open to all and what is needed within the context of conservative evangelical teaching is a new understanding. A growing number of biblical and theological scholars now recognize that Scripture does not condemn loving, responsible homosexual relationships. Therefore, gay men and lesbians should be accepted - just as they are-in Christian churches, and homosexual relationships should be celebrated and affirmed.

When approaching the text of Scripture, every reader brings their preunderstandings or presuppositions to the process. As the reader (interpreter) uses these preunderstanding to exegete the meaning of the message their understanding deepens or even changes.

Approximately 150 years ago in the United States, some Christian teaching held that there was a two-fold moral order: black and white. Whites were thought to be superior to blacks, therefore blacks were to be subservient and slavery was an institution ordained by God. Clergy who supported such an abhorrent idea claimed the authority of the Bible. The conflict over slavery led to divisions which gave birth to some major Christian denominations. These same denominations, of course, do not support slavery today. Did the Bible change? No, their interpretation of the Bible did.

What influences us to new ways of understanding Scripture? New scientific information, social changes, and personal experience are perhaps the greatest forces for change in the way we interpret the Bible and develop our beliefs. Scientific awareness of homosexual orientation did not exist until the nineteenth century. Most Christian churches, including Metropolitan Community Church, believe the Bible was inspired by God and provides a key source of authority for the Christian faith. Therefore, what the Bible teaches on any subject, including sexuality, is of great significance.

"Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender people have a unique history as spiritual people and our expressions of spirituality are being manifested in powerful and healing ways today.

~ Rev. Dr. Mona West, Queer Spirituality

For more see:
Metropolitan Community Churches | Queer Spirituality
​

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[GlorytoGod]

then pick the scripture that you think justifies your prejudice and lets see.

thats where you are wrong wil since I'm not prejudice, i Love gays .

i think you are prejudiced against Bible believing Christians as you have proven many times

and besides its all on another thread somewhere I see no need to go over it again.

 

[Quahom1]

thats where you are wrong wil since I'm not prejudice, i Love gays .

i think you are prejudiced against Bible believing Christians as you have proven many times

and besides its all on another thread somewhere I see no need to go over it again.

I um, think you meant "I love people, even those who happen to consider themself, gay..."

 

[soleil10]

ANGLICAN OR EPISCOPAL? - Next week the Anglican Church in North America will "emerge" to challenge the legitimacy of the U.S. Episcopal Church. This will force the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, to recognize the ACNA as a legitimate Anglican alternative to the Episcopal Church, a step he perhaps does not want to take. So far, 4 complete dioceses and 683 congregations have voted with their feet to join the ACNA.

 

[path_of_one]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Anglican/Episcopal thing is only about what to do about gay people. Perhaps elaborate on how it's directly relevant?

I wonder how it affects churches that see themselves as both. In the church I go to, the 8 am service is Anglican and the 10 am is Episcopalian. So far as I could tell, the only difference is whether everything is said (8 am) or sung (10 am). Once again, some petty details will split the body of Christ. It's not much of a surprise, but it is disappointing.

 

[soleil10]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the Anglican/Episcopal thing is only about what to do about gay people. Perhaps elaborate on how it's directly relevant?
I wonder how it affects churches that see themselves as both. In the church I go to, the 8 am service is Anglican and the 10 am is Episcopalian. So far as I could tell, the only difference is whether everything is said (8 am) or sung (10 am). Once again, some petty details will split the body of Christ. It's not much of a surprise, but it is disappointing.

The acceptance and promotion of homosexuality has been the cherry on the cake which broke apart this denomination. Those who leave want to follow the bible.
There has been many legal suits fighting for property and real estate. The congregations saying that it belonged to them while the Episcopal church saying otherwise.
Homosexuality is divisive

 

[citizenzen]

Homosexuality is divisive

Tis human nature to divide, to differentiate, to categorize, to create castes and to stratify.

Homosexuals did not create divisiveness, they just became another reason to engage in it.

 

[soleil10]

Tis human nature to divide, to differentiate, to categorize, to create castes and to stratify.Homosexuals did not create divisiveness, they just became another reason to engage in it.

They are challenged with a disorder. Homosexuality is a disorder

I am dealing with the disorder. That disorder is creating division between people.

As an example you are twisting my words to make it an attack on people for whatever reason.