Is Sin real ?

[GlorytoGod]

Is sin real ?

or is just the consequences of our actions. the past is gone but there may be consequences is that what sin is ?

 

[Gatekeeper]

My view is that sin simply refers to an to err in judgment, or rather a "Missing of the mark". We pay for our misguided judgments via 'natural' consequence. We live in a world governed by natural law, or rules. It boils down to a broken rule and then a consequence (Pretty simple). God doesn't 'dish' out punishment. He doesn't need to - Natural consequence places enough 'punishment' on us as is. Our problem is that we are prone to repeat our mistakes, which makes us a "sinful" species.

Just my view,

GK

 

[GlorytoGod]

My view is that sin simply refers to an to err in judgment, or rather a "Missing of the mark". We pay for our misguided judgments via 'natural' consequence. We live in a world governed by natural law, or rules. It boils down to a broken rule and then a consequence (Pretty simple). God doesn't 'dish' out punishment. He doesn't need to - Natural consequence places enough 'punishment' on us as is. Our problem is that we are prone to repeat our mistakes, which makes us a "sinful" species.

Just my view,

GK

so does Jesus fit in with this and his dying for our sins ?

 

[Gatekeeper]

The wages of sin are death. Christ came so we might have life and have it more abundantly. He is the way, the truth, and the life - God gave us life, Christ showed us how to live it in abundance.

Christ did die for our sins. He died, defeated death (The "wages" of sin) so He might be a faithful high priest, and defeat death (Sin in the flesh) for us also.

When we follow Him, and live as He lived, we err much less and gain a more abundant life. We are forgiven for our "imperfections" in that we will be raised also, gaining eternal life through His "perfection". He is stronger than death, and a Lord worthy of praise.

What I'm suggesting is that he showed us how to gain an abundant life in the here and now, then sacrificed himself so he may grant us life eternal with Him in the kingdom of heaven through His perfection.

GK

 

[Gatekeeper]

A few more thought on the subject GTG - Again, just my view...

We are imperfect. Christ however lived a perfect life, and thus became perfect through His obedience to the father. Christ was much like Adam and Eve were in the beginning (Very good) Christ (Like Adam and Eve) was able to miss the mark an sin also, but He did not.

Once Christ accomplished all His father sent Him to accomplish, He was given charge of all things. He had proved that He was a faithful, and worthy high priest for us. He experienced our hardships, and suffered like we all suffer, yet He stayed true to the father, and thoroughly understands mankind's dilemma in life.

When I suggested that death was "sin in the flesh" I was merely suggesting that our err in judgment and imperfection kills us both physically, mentally and spiritually. Christ gave Himself wholly to the world so we might live through Him/His teachings and gain a more abundant life in the now.

Christ is the love and wisdom of God. The sole purpose of the cross was to demonstrate that love toward us. He was gonna die anyway, as He was born of Mary, but the cross demonstrates His awesome love for all of us. What he willingly went through for us speaks volumes of what his love is made of.

Death (Physical death) is just a natural thing in this life. We are not yet perfect, and therefor do not have the knowledge and understanding to defeat it. Christ overcame it, as will we through Him. His perfect understanding, perfect life, and knowledge allowed Him to defeat and overcome death itself. He now gives His perfect grace to us, and will raise us on the last day.

It is finished - All of it! That is the good news. We will continue to err (sin) and we will continue to reap what we sow, but in the end we will all be raised and stand before the judgment seat. But, every knee will bow in the end, as the lord is not willing that any should perish but that all will come to repentance.

It may take a thousand years for us to honor Him as we ought to, but every knee WILL bow. All mankind WILL repent and come to honor Him as Lord. From the sheep who followed Him in this life to the goats (See below) that never recognized Him at all.

Who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? (Every knee will bow) For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap. 3 He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, (He will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with Fire - Burning away the chaff from within each individual) and they will bring offerings in righteousness to the Lord. Mal 3:2-3 (ESV)

Again these are just my views, but Christ did not die in vain. All man will be washed clean, and find salvation in His love.

GK

 

[Thomas]

What definition of sin are you working to?

What seems to be missing from the discussion is the fact that a sin, by definition, requires the freely-given assent of the will to perform an action one knows to be wrong ... so a sin is not a 'mistake', or an 'error', or something done in ignorance, 'sin' implies the moral dimension of an action (or inaction) — it's not what you do that determines a sin, it's why you do it.

Thomas

 

[Gatekeeper]

What definition of sin are you working to?

What seems to be missing from the discussion is the fact that a sin, by definition, requires the freely-given assent of the will to perform an action one knows to be wrong ... so a sin is not a 'mistake', or an 'error', or something done in ignorance, 'sin' implies the moral dimension of an action (or inaction) — it's not what you do that determines a sin, it's why you do it.

Thomas

If I killed thousands of people, but didn't believe in my heart that it was wrong to do so, I wouldn't be 'sinning'? How exactly does that work, Thomas? My belief is that God has set in place natural laws that are in our best interest to follow. When we break His law - be it consciously or not, we are in fact sinning. The natural consequence of breaking His law causes us and/or others to suffer.

The truth is that we are in this life together. Every single action we take effects the body we "all" represent. That's why it is so important that we are mindful of our actions, and understand God's law. When we have a reverence for God and the laws He has set in place, we will grow in wisdom. If I recall correctly this is the beginning of wisdom according to scripture (The "fear" of the Lord, or rather "reverence" of)

Sin is (In fact) an archers term for missing the mark - It implies that there is something to 'shoot' for. When we miss the 'target' it is a sin, or rather a 'misguided judgment' on our part. The target is for us to honor and keep the laws God has set in place for us. This is for our benefit - Not just ours, but for all things living on this great earth.

Sin isn't some moral evil, it is simply what scripture refers to when we fall short (See above). It is an err in judgment, a mistake and often times it IS done in ignorance.

Two cents,

GK

 

[iBrian]

I'm going to move this to the Christianity section to try and keep it focused there.

 

[wil]

We are not punished for our sins, but by them.

 

[Faithfulservant]

hamartanô

I. to miss, miss the mark,


In the greek it means to Miss the Mark

I also like to say

Temptation + Action = Sin

 

[wil]

hamartanô

I. to miss, miss the mark,


In the greek it means to Miss the Mark

I also like to say

Temptation + Action = Sin

Yeah, so we didn't hit the bullseye, maybe even we didn't hit the target.

The goal is to try to do our best. Tis my belief that we get plenty of tries if we have a G!d of love and forgivness.

Course a fellow with a past like mine has to think that way.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Yeah, so we didn't hit the bullseye, maybe even we didn't hit the target.

The goal is to try to do our best. Tis my belief that we get plenty of tries if we have a G!d of love and forgivness.

Course a fellow with a past like mine has to think that way.

uh hellooo Im a sinner too.

wil, Im going to go ahead and roll with this one... because this is how I see it.


The trick to receiving Jesus Christ is realizing that even our very best isnt good enough. That Jesus died so that He could share His best with us.. so that God looks at us and sees the best of Jesus rather than our feeble attempt at doing our best.

Without Jesus we all look the same. People with a past. Sinners

We are saved not by our works (our best) but by faith in Jesus Christ and His work. (the cross)

 

[Azure24]

Gatekeeper pretty much covered this. But in response to question of the thread. Yes.

 

[immortalitylost]

In my opinion there is no sin really, but there also is. People do bad things all the time, but those bad things serve a higher purpose and often times lead to good. God created sin. He must have a use for it.

One example, evil in some inspires good in others.

This world is a great tapestry of commingled events, from the minuscule to the immense. All of the pieces are part of a whole, and all are important.

Knowing what we should not do, and what we should gives a balance to our fragile mortal minds that we as a species seem to need.

Every society needs and has a code of right and wrong, even animal society. I believe to sin is to fall short of that code, or go against the code as presented in Christian teachings. From our perspective this is a bad thing. From this plane of understanding, those who go against the code are in error.

There are consequences to sin, but whether or not those consequences are the result of that sin, or the reason for that sin depends on circumstance in my mind. Only God can know I suppose.

It's all very complicated. I'll never be able to completely understand it. But this is what I believe thus far.

See ya!

 

[wil]

In my opinion there is no sin really, but there also is. People do bad things all the time, but those bad things serve a higher purpose and often times lead to good. God created sin. He must have a use for it.

tis called growth....we are here in 3d for the experience.

Without Jesus we all look the same. People with a past. Sinners

We are saved not by our works (our best) but by faith in Jesus Christ and His work.

I hear ya, and agree, the part where we disagree is I believe you don't have to know Jesus to Know Jesus. ie, the Christ is embodied in non-christians as well, and when they choose to connect it may not be in the way that fits our preconceived notions.

 

[Azure24]

In my opinion there is no sin really, but there also is. People do bad things all the time, but those bad things serve a higher purpose and often times lead to good. God created sin. He must have a use for it.

I don't believe God created sin. Evil and sin are not the same thing, Evil has no moral bias.

One example, evil in some inspires good in others.

True, but IMO better to say to truly appreciate the Good one has to experience Evil. To know what light is you have to see darkness, this is knowledge. That is why the tree of knowledge contained both Good and Evil in the same fruit, you cannot know one without the other.

Knowing what we should not do, and what we should gives a balance to our fragile mortal minds that we as a species seem to need.

I guess we both mean the same thing.

....the part where we disagree is I believe you don't have to know Jesus to Know Jesus. ie, the Christ is embodied in non-christians as well, and when they choose to connect it may not be in the way that fits our preconceived notions.

Agreed. But only if you mean you have to know Jesus spiritually.

But then again it is truth that nobody actually knows Jesus. Instead Jesus knows them...

(Matthew 25:12) (Luke. 13:27)

 

[Faithfulservant]

I hear ya, and agree, the part where we disagree is I believe you don't have to know Jesus to Know Jesus. ie, the Christ is embodied in non-christians as well, and when they choose to connect it may not be in the way that fits our preconceived notions.

yeah we disagree because in this.. I think you are "missing the mark" :/

 

[Faithfulservant]

btw It drives me absolutely crazy when people quote scripture out of context.... I cant tell if its intentional or really a lack of knowledge.. but Im too tired.. Night everyone.

 

[Azure24]

btw It drives me absolutely crazy when people quote scripture out of context.... I cant tell if its intentional or really a lack of knowledge.. but Im too tired.. Night everyone.

Are you refering to me? If it is it is not me that lacks knowledge...

 

[Quahom1]

FS says sin is missing the mark. I concur. I would also say sin is being out of balance. When things are "out of balance" they don't work right. When in balance things are self maintaining. Sin is like a broken governor on and engine. Dangerous to both the engine and the people around that engine, because without a governor, it will overspeed and explode, or underspeed and shut down under the load...