Jews as Chosen People: A Theosophical Perspective

Postmaster said:
The only anti Semitic religion I know of is Manichaeism, it’s considered to be the first universal religion yet refused to include the Old Testament/Torah as part of its Theology yet it accpeted all other Eastern and western religions as divine.


This was a path that Christian theogians almost took, a rejection of the Old Testament some tried to argue it was of another God.
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Yes some early Christians did reject the Old Testament and only stuck to the Gospels - or even one Gospel. It wasn't because they were anti Semitic, for most of them were probably ex Jews. (The first Christians were Jews.)
 
"(The first Christians were Jews.)"

--> This brings up my theory, that Jesus was originally a great teacher at the calibre of Buddha, and was later deified by the church. If so, this would easily allow for the idea that Jesus was a Jew.
 
I thought Jesus was a Jew because he was born of a Jewish mother, and thus there was no argument about his being Jewish? :)
 
If there was any 'chosen', wouldn't it have begun with the covenant with Abraham, particularly in regards to his seed:

"Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." - Genesis 12:1-3

And as the psalmist agrees:

"I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,
Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah." - Psalm 89:3-4

Thus the whole purpose for the covenant is that the rest of the world would be blessed by what God would do in the seed of Abraham, particularly Isaac, Jacob, and his sons. As I understand it, the Jews are the vehicle in which God's purposes were to come into fruition. He had to work with somebody. Sheesh! ;)

The point is that God, for whatever reason, made certain promises to a group of people and it is God that is committed to fulfill them, regardless of the faithfulness, or lack thereof, on the other side of the covenant. And quite frankly, judging from the sorted history of the Jews we find in scripture, their end of the bargain was very sketchy at best. Nevertheless, God has always been faithful.

So to broaden the perspective, the purpose of the Jews is that the rest of the world could be blessed. The God of the Jews, as an example, can also be the God of the Gentiles. The covenant, to an certain extent, extends to all rest of the nations of the world. It's just that the Jews, for whatever reason, would find it first.
 
I take exception to limiting Abraham to only Jews, since Abraham was a Hebrew and the father of the Hebrews. It is an important word. He would not have called himself a Jew though apparently Jews are descended from him and are considered Hebrews. 'Hebrew' could be translated into English as 'A stranger', and its recorded that Abraham lived his life as a stranger in a strange land. That was one of his defining characteristics. Using this strategy he would bless the world by living in it, being an example of how to live whilst not having his own land -- sort of like Father Christmas crossed with a Gypsy. He lived with the promise of one day having his own land, in the far future, for the sake of bettering the world. This is arguably how most Jews have lived their lives - as strangers. It occurs to me that anyone may adopt the same strategy, and then they will technically be a Stranger in a Strange Land as well. I'm not saying this makes them suddenly Jewish but that bloodline is only so important to Abraham. I'm also pointing out that Jews accept converts of all bloodlines by which, they recognize the character of Abraham is not simply about blood but about a way of life. Principles are far more important than blood, which is only important because of its use in passing on the principles.

Alex, just want to add this:
Hitler was a paranoid conspiracy theorist who couldn't handle the concept of strangers in his country. That is typical of a dictator. They're constantly worried about getting stabbed in the back. He had delusions that all such Strangers were dangerous and evil, but he had to resort to racism in order to get rid of them as overall they had very good behavior. If they had really been dangerous, then he shouldn't have needed the racist card to kill them. The killing off of so many Jews over the years has from time to time had some negative effects on the survivors. It has made some of them question their principles, but overall they are still solid. Exhibit A: they continue to be sympathetic to Muslims living in non Muslim countries, anybody who's an underdog, lost causes, slaves, or basically anybody who is any kind of stranger.
 
dream said:
'Hebrew' could be translated into English as 'A stranger'
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If you translated very loosely.

and its recorded that Abraham lived his life as a stranger in a strange land.
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That's Moses. Possibly a better translation is: sojourner in a foreign land (following Fox)

It occurs to me that anyone may adopt the same strategy, and then they will technically be a Stranger in a Strange Land as well. I'm not saying this makes them suddenly Jewish but that bloodline is only so important to Abraham.
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Bloodline? No. Judaism isn't a race. Anyone can become naturalized, if you will, into the Jewish people. However the chain of birthright in the biblical narrative passes on through Jacob who then becomes Israel and the Jewish people are known as Bnai Yisrael, the children of Israel. That nationhood is important and is an important piece of the covenant with Abraham. One could also trace another nation through Ishmael. Some have suggested that Islam comes from Ishmael and Christianity, as an extension of the Roman Empire, from Esau, but that's going beyond the words of Torah alone. I think your drash is nice. I don't object to the intention. I just don't think it's a very close reading of the text. It's a nice thought but I don't think it's reason to take exception to the assertion that Abraham is specifically a Jewish patriarch. I do think there are other ways of backing up that type of assertion.
 
Bruce, here is another exchange of thoughts about Theosophy that I would also like to get your feedback on:


Originally Posted by Nick the Pilot
It is true that Theosophy teaches that we are the fifth root-race, of what will be a total of seven root-races. But all of present-day humanity is part of the fifth root-race. The Atlanteans were the fourth root-race. The one feature of the Atlanteans is that they were giants, anywhere from 20 feet tall to 60 feet tall -- it is said they were large enough and strong enough to build Stonehenge by hand, which makes sense to me. These giants are even mentioned in the Bible, in a most undesireable way, in accordance with Theosophical teachings. Theosophy describes the Atlanteans as having started out as a good race, but that they eventually descended into debauchery. It was the Atlantean giants which were wiped out in Noah’s flood. Noah, a member of the fifth root-race, was party to the elimination of the Atlantean fourth root-race, and can be said to be part of a race that claimed to be superior to the Atlantean race, if that is the type of terminology that you wish to use.
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Avi said:
Nick, I have been studying this paragraph that you posted. If I understand your words correctly, Theosophy is a philosophy or religion which has a strong emphasis on "racial superiority". It seems like this emphasis on racial superiority could be used by an unscrupulous political leader to foment genocide. Can you envision how this might happen ?
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Stealing Abraham

Dauer, thanks for the compliment! I hear what you're saying. Also Yes, I used fuzzy interpolation of a translation of Hebrew & the word 'Eber, and I got fuzzy results. I've needed to be fuzzy along the way to where I am, though sometimes its inconvenient. Fox's work I have looked over, and think it looks cool. Affirmative, you are making sense to me about Abraham.
 
Nick the Pilot said:
--> This brings up my theory, that Jesus was originally a great teacher at the calibre of Buddha, and was later deified by the church. If so, this would easily allow for the idea that Jesus was a Jew.
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Now it appears to be Nick's theory that Jesus was a Jew ! Theosophical re-writing of history.
 
Avi said:
Now it appears to be Nick's theory that Jesus was a Jew ! Theosophical re-writing of history.
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Those other questions re Atlantis, racial superiority etc. are rather more complex. I will look at them later.
For now I can say "the first will be last and the last will be first".
On equality, we can say that in the realm of the laws of men there should be equal rights. And in spiritual law, we are all loved by God equally. But that pretty much the end of it, as evidenced by folk in the world around us. There is no equality in:

  • Good looks
  • Mental agility and intelligence
  • Finance
  • Sin
  • Virtue
  • Physical dexterity and strength
  • Talents- whatever they be
  • And so on
And so too there is no "spiritual equality", as there are human beings who are way advanced, and others not so much. There are beings below us and hierarchical beings way above us - called "Hierarchy" for a reason.

Now the Jews were the "chosen race" for their divinely directed bloodline, a bloodline so special, it would befit a Messiah. This is why we find the genealogies in the New Testament (right back to Adam), and also why the Old Testament is considered important by Christians.
 
Avi said:
Bruce, here is another exchange of thoughts about Theosophy that I would also like to get your feedback on:
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A "Root Race" is a period of time- a cultural period.

Root race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Remember, to be a theosophist you don't have to be a follower of Blavatsky (I'm not) or any other author. You just have to subscribe to the objects/aims.
Dogmatism is not allowed.
 
Bruce Michael said:
Remember, to be a theosophist you don't have to be a follower of Blavatsky (I'm not) or any other author. You just have to subscribe to the objects/aims.
Dogmatism is not allowed.
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Interesting observation, Bruce, can you please tell us which parts of Madame Blavatsky's philosophy you reject ? Also, would you say that her particular philosophy is dogmatic ?
 
Bruce Michael said:
A "Root Race" is a period of time- a cultural period.

Root race - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Bruce, thank you for providing this link. If you read the wiki article you will see that "root race" is more than a period of time. Here is the Theosophy view of the Aryan root race :

According to Blavatsky the sixth subrace of the Aryan root race will begin to evolve in the area of the United States in the early 21st century. This sixth subrace of the Aryan root race will be called the Australo-American subrace and is believed by Theosophists to be now arising from the Teutonic subrace of the Aryan root race in Australia and in the Western United States and its surrounding nearby areas (i.e., the Australo-American subrace is presently in the process of arising from the Anglo-American, Anglo-Canadian, Anglo-Australian and presumably also the Anglo-New Zealander ethnic groups).[22] The sixth or Australo-American sub-race will "possess certain psychic powers, and for this the pituitary body will be developed, thus giving an additional sense, that of cognising astral emotions in the ordinary waking consciousness. We may say that in general the sixth sub-race will bring in wisdom and intuition, blending all that is best in the intelligence of the fifth subrace and the emotion of the fourth." [23] In the mid 21st century, Theosophists assert, the United States, the British Commonwealth, Germany, Portugal and Russia will form a federation which will establish a world-dominating Aryan Empire that will function as the chrysalis for the emergence of the sixth sub-race of the Aryan race.
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Bruce, "a world dominating Aryan Empire" ! Can you see why this might make a few of us a wee bit uneasy ??
 
Avi said:
Interesting observation, Bruce, can you please tell us which parts of Madame Blavatsky's philosophy you reject ?
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That would be an exhausting study- she said so much. Principally though, I am a Johannine Christian, in that I believe that the Creative Word "by through Whom all things were made" was incarnate in Christ Jesus.
I do believe - along with good Jews - in reincarnation.


Avi said:
Also, would you say that her particular philosophy is dogmatic ?
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If some people take it dogmatically, then they should take her statements against dogmatism dogmatically as well :).

Dogma? Faith? These are the right and left pillars of every soul-crushing Theology. Theosophists have no dogmas, exact no blind faith. Theosophists are ever ready to abandon every idea that is proved erroneous upon strictly logical deductions; let Spiritualists do the same. Dogmas are the toys that amuse, and can satisfy, but unreasoning children. They are the offspring of human speculation and prejudiced fancy.....

Realizing, as they do, the boundlessness of the absolute truth, Theosophists repudiate all claim to infallibility. The most cherished preconceptions, the most "pious hope," the strongest "master passion," they sweep aside like dust from their path, when their error is pointed out. Their highest hope is to approximate to the truth. That they have succeeded in going a few steps beyond the Spiritualists, they think proved in their conviction that they know nothing in comparison with what is to be learned; in their sacrifice of every pet theory and prompting of emotionalism at the shrine of fact; and in their absolute and unqualified repudiation of everything that smacks of "dogma."
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Theosophy article: "A Society Without a Dogma" by Blavatsky
 
This isn't addressed to anyone in particular. I've been reading some of the posts in this topic and it looks very interesting. For a number of reasons, I've been doing a lot of thinking these past few weeks and months about the related concepts of the Covenant and the Chosen People. I've written some posts related to my speculations on this forum (on the Judaism board) and on another forum. It's going to take awhile to read everything that's been written so far, but I think I'd like to participate in this discussion.

I'll even try to behave myself...and hope Avi isn't too disappointed to hear that. :D

Please note though that I didn't promise to behave myself! I try not to make promises I can't keep.

--Linda
 
Raksha said:
This isn't addressed to anyone in particular. I've been reading some of the posts in this topic and it looks very interesting. For a number of reasons, I've been doing a lot of thinking these past few weeks and months about the related concepts of the Covenant and the Chosen People. I've written some posts related to my speculations on this forum (on the Judaism board) and on another forum. It's going to take awhile to read everything that's been written so far, but I think I'd like to participate in this discussion.

I'll even try to behave myself...and hope Avi isn't too disappointed to hear that. :D

Please note though that I didn't promise to behave myself! I try not to make promises I can't keep.

--Linda
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Go ahead Linda, take a shot, I'm pretty sure it will be an interesting one :D.

Bruce told me recently that there are Jewish Theosophists.

So no, I won't be surprised at all to find out that your mystical side is interested in this issue. :cool:

Maybe your comments will get both of us kicked out of the Alternative sub-forum (or at least me) :D !!
 
Avi said:
Bruce, thank you for providing this link. If you read the wiki article you will see that "root race" is more than a period of time. Here is the Theosophy view of the Aryan root race :



Bruce, "a world dominating Aryan Empire" ! Can you see why this might make a few of us a wee bit uneasy ??
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Hi Avi,
This proves that anyone can write what they like on a wikipedia page. It is not a quote from HPB. If we look around us today we see that Western culture is the dominant culture. American English is the dominant cultural language, and the American culture has spread around the world via TV, Hollywood, computers, production lines etc.
During HPB's time we had the English empire dominating the world- Queen Victoria outlived Blavatsky.

So English culture (and the English culture suppplanted in the USA) has been rather dominant in recent history. People used to marvel how such a little country could have such an influence.

Now we have the emergence of a partly Westernised China (this was predicted by Solovieff).
Gay used to mean happy, words change in meaning or are devalued- like Aryan for instance. Aryan studies used to be par for the course: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Jones_(philologist)

The Nazis threw the Ariosophists into concentration camps:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariosophy
The Nazi religion was Irminenschaft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its leader was Karl Maria Wiligut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We can see how the theosophical ideal of tolerant cosmopolitanism is so needed today- pity it wasn't heeded back then. Surely this is the better than being an intolerant bigot.
 
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