What, less than 1,000 people have died from this swine flu, as compared to what, 300,000 people worldwide who die from the regular flu every year?
But there are concerns about pandemic:
VOA News - WHO Says Swine-Flu Virus Could Infect 2 Billion
Swine Flu
- Thread starter iBrian
- Start date
But there are concerns about pandemic:
VOA News - WHO Says Swine-Flu Virus Could Infect 2 Billion
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
tamiflu is like $130ish here in the states. ouch
When one looks at the rate of poliio you'll notice the decline in polio prior to the issuance of the vaccine. You'll also notice it dissappeared in some countries that never used the vaccine. You'll also notice that the definition of polio and menangitis changed with the vacine and cases which would have prior to the vaccine been called polio nnw had a new name and menangitis was suddenly on the rise...all just so the gov't could show their huge success rate.
No flu vaccine for me....
Anyone remember the horrors a few years back when they couldn't produce the vaccine and they had the same media hype as this swine flu today?? And what happenned...less than 30% of those who normally get vacinated did and the flu cases were the one of the lowest in history.....hmmmmmm
nativeastral
fluffy future
Janz
What's Amatta U
I am happy that you have the choice to opt out of the vaccine as to your other claims, I would love to see your sources (inquiring minds need to know). Are you talking about Meningitis as in the infection of the fluid (cerebrospinal fluid) and tissues (meninges) that surround the brain and spinal cord?
darned if I know not an MD just read books and charts....
shawn
Well-Known Member
It wouldn't take much for a mandatory vaccination program to be implemented and that really concerns me.
In particular when I see that people who do get the flu shot are more likely to catch a flu.
A strong immune system will do more for you than any vaccine. (IMO)
In particular when I see that people who do get the flu shot are more likely to catch a flu.
A strong immune system will do more for you than any vaccine. (IMO)
T
Tao_Equus
Guest
I find this subject one of the most difficult dilemmas of trust facing us today. The reason being that I firmly believe the next world war will not be fought using explosives, but germs. Our capitalistic system encourages drug companies to poison and cure us for their profit but they may also work in tandem, but very secretly, to protect us from germs being developed by the enemies of the west, (China, N.Korea, Iran etc all have big budget germ warfare programs). Inoculation programs may just be for profit or they may be a genuine effort of protection, it is impossible to tell. This is just one of the reasons why I argue that all medicine and healthcare should be the responsibility of state and not private industry.
Yes another bit I read was by Louis Pasteur...who everyone touts as fathering our thoughts on germs... Near the end of his life his contemplation was not on those that died from the germs, but why others lived and why some were untouched...immune system exactly that is what should be researched...not how to kill or irradicate the enemy (germ, virus, whatever)(hmm love your enemy....hmmm what doesn't kill us makes us stronger) not to irradicate the enemy but improve your own army so it can combat it.
shawn
Well-Known Member
But we see the wholesale privatization of the military these days being the popular trend of things to come.
IMO, this issue causes all our philosophizing to equal a fart in a windstorm.
We ought to be more concerned about this issue.
But as is the typical pattern, what will most likely occur is people will ignore this issue, do nothing, say very little (not enough to matter in any case) and then, if such an event were to occur, we will have rabid/zealous officers rounding people up and enforcing the vaccinations, and those who resist will be sent off to jails or quarantine.
When what really needs to happen is for people to do what is necessary to strengthen their immune systems. (but I doubt you will ever see much for medical studies being done on that)
Janz
What's Amatta U
Just think if the drug companies would invest all their lobbying money toward research that would provide a means to help bolster our immune systems. As long as we have the special interests in charge of our government (here in the USA, at least) we will never see true health care reform ie single payer.
According to The Associated Press, the drug industry's trade group PhRMA (the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America) and the drug company Pfizer "reported spending more money than other health care organizations on lobbying in the second quarter of this year" - $6.2 million from PhRMA, $5.6 million from Pfizer. "Including its latest report, PhRMA has now spent $13.1 million lobbying so far this year. Pfizer has reported $11.7 million in lobbying expenses for 2009."
This is part of the reason, as Alicia Mundy and Laura Meckler recently wrote in The Wall Street Journal, that "the pharmaceuticals industry, which President Barack Obama promised to 'take on' during his campaign, is winning most of what it wants in the health-care overhaul."
Their story describes "a string of victories" plucked from the Senate Finance Committee by drug company lobbyists, including no cost-cutting steps, no cheaper drugs to be allowed across the border from Canada, and no direct Federal government negotiations with the pharmaceutical companies to lower Medicare drug prices.
And that's not all. The Senate Health Committee is giving the biotech industry monopoly protection against competition from generic drugs for 12 years after they go on the market.
No wonder the cost of reform keeps going up and up and up. What a bunch of bull.
According to The Associated Press, the drug industry's trade group PhRMA (the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America) and the drug company Pfizer "reported spending more money than other health care organizations on lobbying in the second quarter of this year" - $6.2 million from PhRMA, $5.6 million from Pfizer. "Including its latest report, PhRMA has now spent $13.1 million lobbying so far this year. Pfizer has reported $11.7 million in lobbying expenses for 2009."
This is part of the reason, as Alicia Mundy and Laura Meckler recently wrote in The Wall Street Journal, that "the pharmaceuticals industry, which President Barack Obama promised to 'take on' during his campaign, is winning most of what it wants in the health-care overhaul."
Their story describes "a string of victories" plucked from the Senate Finance Committee by drug company lobbyists, including no cost-cutting steps, no cheaper drugs to be allowed across the border from Canada, and no direct Federal government negotiations with the pharmaceutical companies to lower Medicare drug prices.
And that's not all. The Senate Health Committee is giving the biotech industry monopoly protection against competition from generic drugs for 12 years after they go on the market.
No wonder the cost of reform keeps going up and up and up. What a bunch of bull.
lunamoth
Episcopalian
Just think if the drug companies would invest all their lobbying money toward research that would provide a means to help bolster our immune systems. As long as we have the special interests in charge of our government (here in the USA, at least) we will never see true health care reform ie single payer.
According to The Associated Press, the drug industry's trade group PhRMA (the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America) and the drug company Pfizer "reported spending more money than other health care organizations on lobbying in the second quarter of this year" - $6.2 million from PhRMA, $5.6 million from Pfizer. "Including its latest report, PhRMA has now spent $13.1 million lobbying so far this year. Pfizer has reported $11.7 million in lobbying expenses for 2009."
This is part of the reason, as Alicia Mundy and Laura Meckler recently wrote in The Wall Street Journal, that "the pharmaceuticals industry, which President Barack Obama promised to 'take on' during his campaign, is winning most of what it wants in the health-care overhaul."
Their story describes "a string of victories" plucked from the Senate Finance Committee by drug company lobbyists, including no cost-cutting steps, no cheaper drugs to be allowed across the border from Canada, and no direct Federal government negotiations with the pharmaceutical companies to lower Medicare drug prices.
And that's not all. The Senate Health Committee is giving the biotech industry monopoly protection against competition from generic drugs for 12 years after they go on the market.
No wonder the cost of reform keeps going up and up and up. What a bunch of bull.
Interesting post Janz.
I started a new thread so people could explore this whole issue a bit more.http://www.interfaith.org/forum/who-should-develop-new-medicines-11872.html
lunamoth
Episcopalian
One thing that is interesting about this is that we can bolster our immune systems by simple things like eating well-balanced diets, getting enough sleep and exercise, reducing the pollutants in our environment.
Sometimes I just have to sigh when I think about 'issues' like global warming. We know that pollution is harmful to living things, we know that we can't burn fossil fuels forever. We know that we'd all be better off with a more sustainable lifestyle instead of more things, things, things.
Yet, we get distracted by arguments over whether we are entering an ice age or a period of global warming. There are no short-term answers and the long-term answers are quite evident.
shawn
Well-Known Member
The drug companies are corporations so they are legally bound to make more money for their shareholders.
So that is their agenda.
They don't seem too particular about how they go about doing so either.
Sad thing is so many people trust them absolutely.
So that is their agenda.
They don't seem too particular about how they go about doing so either.
Sad thing is so many people trust them absolutely.
shawn
Well-Known Member
Re: Swine Flu- vaccines
The Canadian Gov't announce today that they are buying 50 million doses of the stuff, enough for 2 shots for almost everyone and they are stockpiling it now.
(At least, not by anyone in authority...)
#1 - The vaccine production was "rushed" and the vaccine has never been tested on humans. Do you like to play guinea pig for Big Pharma? If so, line up for your swine flu vaccine this fall...
#2 - Swine flu vaccines contain dangerous adjuvants that cause an inflammatory response in the body. This is why they are suspected of causing autism and other neurological disorders.
#3 - The swine flu vaccine could actually increase your risk of death from swine flu by altering (or suppressing) your immune system response. There is zero evidence that even seasonal flu shots offer any meaningful protection for people who take the jabs. Vaccines are the snake oil of modern medicine.
#4 - Doctors still don't know why the 1976 swine flu vaccines paralyzed so many people. And that means they really have no clue whether the upcoming vaccine might cause the same devastating side effects. (And they're not testing it, either...)
#5 - Even if the swine flu vaccine kills you, the drug companies aren't responsible. The U.S. government has granted drug companies complete immunity against vaccine product liability. Thanks to that blanket immunity, drug companies have no incentive to make safe vaccines, because they only get paid based on quantity, not safety (zero liability).
#6 - No swine flu vaccine works as well as vitamin D to protect you from influenza. That's an inconvenient scientific fact that the U.S. government, the FDA and Big Pharma hope the people never realize.
#7 - Even if the swine flu vaccine actually works, mathematically speaking if everyone else around you gets the vaccine, you don't need one! (Because it can't spread through the population you hang with.) So even if you believe in the vaccine, all you need to do is encourage your friends to go get vaccinated...
#8 - Drug companies are making billions of dollars from the production of swine flu vaccines. That money comes out of your pocket -- even if you don't get the jab -- because it's all paid by the taxpayers.
#9 - When people start dying in larger numbers from the swine flu, rest assured that many of them will be the very people who got the swine flu vaccine. Doctors will explain this away with their typical Big Pharma logic: "The number saved is far greater than the number lost." Of course, the number "saved" is entirely fictional... imaginary... and exists only in their own warped heads.
#10 - The swine flu vaccine centers that will crop up all over the world in the coming months aren't completely useless: They will provide an easy way to identify large groups of really stupid people. (Too bad there isn't some sort of blue dye that we could tag 'em with for future reference...)
http://www.naturalnews.com/026717_swine_flu_flu_vaccine_swine_flu_vaccine.html
The Canadian Gov't announce today that they are buying 50 million doses of the stuff, enough for 2 shots for almost everyone and they are stockpiling it now.
Ten things you're not supposed to know about the swine flu vaccine
(At least, not by anyone in authority...)
#1 - The vaccine production was "rushed" and the vaccine has never been tested on humans. Do you like to play guinea pig for Big Pharma? If so, line up for your swine flu vaccine this fall...
#2 - Swine flu vaccines contain dangerous adjuvants that cause an inflammatory response in the body. This is why they are suspected of causing autism and other neurological disorders.
#3 - The swine flu vaccine could actually increase your risk of death from swine flu by altering (or suppressing) your immune system response. There is zero evidence that even seasonal flu shots offer any meaningful protection for people who take the jabs. Vaccines are the snake oil of modern medicine.
#4 - Doctors still don't know why the 1976 swine flu vaccines paralyzed so many people. And that means they really have no clue whether the upcoming vaccine might cause the same devastating side effects. (And they're not testing it, either...)
#5 - Even if the swine flu vaccine kills you, the drug companies aren't responsible. The U.S. government has granted drug companies complete immunity against vaccine product liability. Thanks to that blanket immunity, drug companies have no incentive to make safe vaccines, because they only get paid based on quantity, not safety (zero liability).
#6 - No swine flu vaccine works as well as vitamin D to protect you from influenza. That's an inconvenient scientific fact that the U.S. government, the FDA and Big Pharma hope the people never realize.
#7 - Even if the swine flu vaccine actually works, mathematically speaking if everyone else around you gets the vaccine, you don't need one! (Because it can't spread through the population you hang with.) So even if you believe in the vaccine, all you need to do is encourage your friends to go get vaccinated...
#8 - Drug companies are making billions of dollars from the production of swine flu vaccines. That money comes out of your pocket -- even if you don't get the jab -- because it's all paid by the taxpayers.
#9 - When people start dying in larger numbers from the swine flu, rest assured that many of them will be the very people who got the swine flu vaccine. Doctors will explain this away with their typical Big Pharma logic: "The number saved is far greater than the number lost." Of course, the number "saved" is entirely fictional... imaginary... and exists only in their own warped heads.
#10 - The swine flu vaccine centers that will crop up all over the world in the coming months aren't completely useless: They will provide an easy way to identify large groups of really stupid people. (Too bad there isn't some sort of blue dye that we could tag 'em with for future reference...)
http://www.naturalnews.com/026717_swine_flu_flu_vaccine_swine_flu_vaccine.html
shawn
Well-Known Member
Some info that folks should know:
Vaccine Ingredients and Contact Info
Vaccine ingredients
According to IVAC, (Illinois Vaccine Awareness Coalition 708-848-0116) all vaccines contain monosodium glutamate even if not listed in product insert. According to numerous sources, all vaccines contain thimerosal (mercury). Manufacturers have declared that it is not possible to produce any vaccine without these two components.
thimerosal (49.6% ethylmercury by weight.)
While mercury is a highly toxic element second only to radioactive plutonium, when combined with other ingredients, specifically aluminum and formaldehyde, the synergistic effects increase 10,000-fold.
Individuals who suffer from chronic mercury exposure will have a unique expression of symptoms.
Ammonium Sulfate: EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant
Aluminum: EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant neurotoxicant respiratory toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems
On at least 2 federal regulatory lists
Formaldehyde: EDF Recognized - carcinogen
Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
immunotoxicant
neurotoxicant
reproductive toxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems
On at least 8 federal regulatory lists
Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health
Monosodium Glutamate: Normally used as a flavor enhancer in a variety of foods, however, due to concerns expressed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, MSG was removed from all products intended for use in infants under the age of one. Injections of glutamate into laboratory animals have resulted in damage to nerve cells in the brain. (a neurotoxin)
A common tetanus shot contains:
Acel-Immune DTaP
diphtheria - tetanus - pertussis
diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed
formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, thimerosal, and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80)
So thimerosol (ethylmercury) is mixed with both formaldehyde and aluminum in 2 forms.
Vaccine Ingredients and Contact Info
Vaccine ingredients
According to IVAC, (Illinois Vaccine Awareness Coalition 708-848-0116) all vaccines contain monosodium glutamate even if not listed in product insert. According to numerous sources, all vaccines contain thimerosal (mercury). Manufacturers have declared that it is not possible to produce any vaccine without these two components.
thimerosal (49.6% ethylmercury by weight.)
While mercury is a highly toxic element second only to radioactive plutonium, when combined with other ingredients, specifically aluminum and formaldehyde, the synergistic effects increase 10,000-fold.
Individuals who suffer from chronic mercury exposure will have a unique expression of symptoms.
Ammonium Sulfate: EDF Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
neurotoxicant
respiratory toxicant
Aluminum: EDF Suspected - cardiovascular or blood toxicant neurotoxicant respiratory toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 2 out of 6 ranking systems
On at least 2 federal regulatory lists
Formaldehyde: EDF Recognized - carcinogen
Suspected - gastrointestinal or liver toxicant
immunotoxicant
neurotoxicant
reproductive toxicant
respiratory toxicant
skin or sense organ toxicant
More hazardous than most chemicals in 5 out of 12 ranking systems
On at least 8 federal regulatory lists
Ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds (worst 10%) to ecosystems and human health
Monosodium Glutamate: Normally used as a flavor enhancer in a variety of foods, however, due to concerns expressed by the American Academy of Pediatrics, MSG was removed from all products intended for use in infants under the age of one. Injections of glutamate into laboratory animals have resulted in damage to nerve cells in the brain. (a neurotoxin)
A common tetanus shot contains:
Acel-Immune DTaP
diphtheria - tetanus - pertussis
diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis adsorbed
formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide, aluminum phosphate, thimerosal, and polysorbate 80 (Tween-80)
So thimerosol (ethylmercury) is mixed with both formaldehyde and aluminum in 2 forms.
shawn
Well-Known Member
Paul Stamets on 6 ways mushrooms can save the world | Video on TED.com
A very interesting talk.
Specifically go to 11 minutes and he discusses his work in conjunction with the DOD and smallpox and flu and how certain mushroom strains were highly active against such pathogens.
A very interesting talk.
Specifically go to 11 minutes and he discusses his work in conjunction with the DOD and smallpox and flu and how certain mushroom strains were highly active against such pathogens.
shawn
Well-Known Member
There was no outbreak but there was a huge amount of fear-mongering based around 1 death.
Swine Influenza A Outbreak, Fort Dix, NJ, 1976 | CDC EID
1976: The swine flu scare
Swine flu: 'Scaremongering' public health adverts from 1976 outbreak - Telegraph
Here is a video with a "60 minutes" news program about it, but they do not address the most obvious question which is how did pvt. Lewis get swine flu in the first place?
Did it just magically reappear in Ft. Dix after being gone for decades (1/2 a century)?
Was this an intentional reinsertment of a deadly virus ?
And why was the vaccine never field tested?
Why was the director of the program not aware of whether it was tested or not?
Swine Influenza A Outbreak, Fort Dix, NJ, 1976 | CDC EID
1976: The swine flu scare
Swine flu: 'Scaremongering' public health adverts from 1976 outbreak - Telegraph
Here is a video with a "60 minutes" news program about it, but they do not address the most obvious question which is how did pvt. Lewis get swine flu in the first place?
Did it just magically reappear in Ft. Dix after being gone for decades (1/2 a century)?
Was this an intentional reinsertment of a deadly virus ?
And why was the vaccine never field tested?
Why was the director of the program not aware of whether it was tested or not?
This could turn into a huge story :
Do you believe they will really have 45 million doses by Oct. 15 ?? What if it turns out that they only have a few thousand doses ready by that date ???
Remember a couple of years ago when the gov't could not provide the flu vaccine all season.
Any comments from the libertarians ?
Do you believe they will really have 45 million doses by Oct. 15 ?? What if it turns out that they only have a few thousand doses ready by that date ???
Remember a couple of years ago when the gov't could not provide the flu vaccine all season.
Any comments from the libertarians
?